Also, BTW: If you wanted to do other, 'adjunct' tests (more planes, AI pilots, whatever) I see no real harm - but in order to keep things simple, it's probably best to not change a bunch of stuff especially all at once. Adjunct, meaning precisely that: Do the original test without changing stuff, then do whatever else you want (the same criteria has to apply).

[quote=kksnowbear
Hey, BTW, I'm fairly certain at least one person here with a very high-end machine (9900/2080Ti) has acknowledged they still see "frame drops"...so, how do you account for that?[/quote]

I still see them too, just like I still see BTs and cloud pops. I said "mitigate", not "fix".

mit·i·gate
/ˈmidəˌɡāt/
verb
make less severe, serious, or painful.

Actually I do believe you when you say that all you want to see happen is a 'fix'. I suggest that you don't hold your breath

Like I said, perhaps we should quit our squabbles. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I want to recreate your test for PE. I was rather hoping you might do that now that you have the licenses. I simply want to borrow some aspects of it. I am interested in putting some substance behind the notion that better hardware helps to mitigate the stutters and helps to relieve the annoyance they cause. Anecdotal evidence suggests that it can and does. So what's the baseline for acceptable performance / minimal stutter annoyance and what's the corresponding baseline for hardware? Hard to say, right? That's where I thought you could help, but if you are saying that only zero stuttering is acceptable, then perhaps not. Meantime, I will put together my Tweaker's Challenge. Thanks for your input KK.

If you actually read what I wrote, I said I made a contribution, not bought a license. This was my choice, and made for my own reasons.

If you or anyone else is interested in solving stutter, that's great - but others can test first. I've already spent plenty of my time testing. If you claim these high-end, expensive computers (or tweaks, mods, or whatever else) can solve stutter, great; let's see the videos.

If you're now saying these things cannot solve stutter - then we agree: The stutters are not resolved, regardless of tweaks, mods, or investment in hardware.

I'd still like to see them fixed. Yes, fixed, and I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting things to work without issues - can't speak for anyone else (although many others have agreed).

Still a bit of a squabble-like tone in there if you don't mind me saying. I think I've been pretty consistent with my opinions regarding mitigation versus fixing over the past year or so. I'm not actually claiming any high-end, expensive computers (or tweaks, mods, or whatever else) can 'solve the stutter' (why don't you just say 'fix'?), but I do think it can mitigate the problem to a level that is sufficient for most people to enjoy smooth, consistent flying, most of the time. But if it's a fix or nothing for you, that's fine.

Be safe.

H

You see, that's the thing...you just can't be respectful and discuss this without that little jab at the end "But if it's a fix or nothing for you, that's fine.", trying to paint me to be some sort of maniac...

Get this: People have a right to expect certain things with what they pay their hard-earned money for. You can lower your standards if you want, but myself (and lots of others) cannot be expected to lower our standards just because you did. If you want to accept it, that's fine for you - but stop making out like I'm wrong because I don't agree with you.

The stutters are an issue. This has long since been established. It is not a problem with the player's computer, or settings etc that causes it. If it's going to be fixed, it's going to require something else. And I don't think, as a paying customer, I should be expected to test endlessly, fiddle with settings to no avail, buy $2000 in computer equipment - or be beat up and attacked for trying to get it resolved. Fixed. Corrected.

These tactics are worse than the worst unqualified tech support I've ever seen. First, insist it's the customer's fault. Try to get them to accept it. Failing that, make them seem unreasonable for expecting the product to perform without issue.

If your idea of correcting an issue is to rationalize that it should just be accepted, that's fine. And people wonder why "quality" means nothing anymore...

I don't think that was disrespectful at all. I'm not trying to paint you as some sort of a maniac, but I do think you are starting to make yourself look like one with this last post

'Get this......etc.etc." - Why do I have to 'get this'? Does that sound respectful to you?

"The stutters are an issue". Yes they are, what's new?

"These tactics....etc.etc." No clue what point you're attempting to make here.

"If your idea....etc, etc." Again, not really getting your point.

Your snarky comment about 'a fix or nothing' is an obvious attempt to portray me as unreasonably insisting something has to be perfect. Let me assure you, none of this is even close to perfect, and I know better than to even try. "Perfect" for me would be much closer to actually flying and not playing a game, for one thing.

My point is you tend to emphasize your perspective by attempting to belittle mine. You seem to think I'm unreasonable for expecting a product to work without issues that require me to change the way I bought it to use.

I say, if you're willing to lower your standards, good for you. You have no right to expect that of anyone else, and they're not out of line or wrong for seeing it differently.

I would like to see the stutter problem resolved. Fixed. Corrected. Why? Because it's not consistent with the experience I feel I paid to enjoy.

You seem to be OK spending time and effort fiddling with settings and such, writing guides etc. in order to mitigate the game's limitations. I'd prefer to see it work without my having to mess around forever with it, and still having issues.

It may come as a shock to you, but plenty of people expect a good product experience, "out-of-the-box", and you're trying awful hard to say I'm wrong for expecting that.

And *that* is disrespectful.

If you deem that a snarky comment you are very thin skinned, KK. However let me attempt to rephrase it: "But if it's a fix for you or nothing, then I believe you will wait in vain forever". Better?

Belittling? You are the champion of that art, KK. You love to dish it out but you can't take it when someone pushes back. I do absolutely think you are unreasonable to expect a 3rd party mod maker to fix code they don't own that dates back 15 years. 'Unreasonable' barely covers it.

My standards are just where I want them to be, thanks. Of course, you didn't intend that to be snarky in any way, did you?

As I've already told you, you'll wait in vain for anyone to fix the stutters. You could try to mitigate them but you've already said your not prepared to do any more tinkering or testing. Your choice. Nothing wrong with that, but you are increasingly behind in terms of having any authoritative voice on the subject and yet you want to argue and argue and argue with anyone who shows any enthusiasm for attempting to address WOFF shortcomings.

I am very ok with spending "time and effort fiddling with settings and such, writing guides etc" (not snarky at all, right?)

Not a shock to me at all. But if the box if 15 years old, well then most rational people would make exceptions. I don't think you're being very rational at all if you think that's me being disrespectful. A painful home truth? Maybe. But you do invite criticism upon yourself by being so repetitive and complaining about an issue that I and others are trying diligently to counter, without lifting a finger yourself. Except to type yet more bitter comments into other people's threads.

So in summary, you bought WOFF in 2016. You found the stutters unacceptable and rather than attempting any optimizations you sold the license. Then you bought the license again but didn't use it made a donation to OBD...to assuage a guilty conscience? You still expect a 15 yr old game to run perfectly and you're still willing to share your opinions about how unacceptable that is. Then you complain when someone calls you out on it and accuse them of being disrespectful.

I've tried the conciliatory approach with you on a number of occasions and every time you throw it back at me. Not any more. If you aren't going to bother reinstalling the game then please don't bother posting in this forum about it. I don't want to hear any more of your complaining or criticizing. Take it somewhere else, KK.

I've been guilty of it in the a past H.,I've fed him so he can keep on and on with his agenda the mans

You might as well bang your head on a wall,I've said it before and I've broken what I said but no more..I'm not going to feed him anymore it's what he wants and IF he keeps hijacking threads I will report him to a moderater of that KKsnowbear you can be certain.

Best of luck with your tweaking H look forwards to seeing them pal.

Adger, so long as you'll include your own personal attacks and name-calling, etc in your "report", go right ahead. Those are against the forum rules, too...glass houses and all.

You actually believe that, even if you get me banned, you'll be able to keep me from discussing this with other interested parties? (Not that I believe anything I've done would warrant banning or whatever...)

No problem whatsoever ..the Moderater will read ALL the posts mine Included. You continually Hijack threads and go OT I think that could warrant a ban or at least a warning.

Infact I believe Pol,s spoken to you previously regarding your tone ,his words..." kksnowbear can you tone it down please telling people they are wrong over and over. You make a point fine, but don't need to keep repeating it."

And that is my my final post to you have a good day.

It's a blatant, absolute falsehood to claim I haven't lifted a finger to work on the stutters. Over the years, I've spent a ton of time, energy and money trying to overcome that problem. It just so happens that I'm willing to acknowledge that the scientific approach has concluded it's not a problem in the machine or settings or anywhere other than the software. And, at that point, you seem to be willing to continue messing with it. I don't look at it as a problem I'm responsible for fixing.

BTW, I've factually spent more effort and time on this than probably anyone - possibly even yourself, considering I started way back when OFF was first created (the free version).

Which leads me to another point: You and others continue to act as if you have factual details about my testing, licenses etc but you do not. You have just (incorrectly) assumed this experience for me started in 2016 - and, factually, you couldn't be more wrong.

"To assuage a guilty conscience?" Another of your continued jabs...and equally misinformed. I donated because I really would like to enable OBD the resources necessary to (get this) fix this issue. Or maybe help them acquire licensing for a new engine that won't have the old CFS3 issues. Whatever. Point is, it's another reason you're flatly wrong about my not doing anything to help the issues, the sim, or OBD. I voted with my wallet and put my money where my mouth was. Have you given them that much (without even so much as accepting a license in return)? You're creating guides etc (which wasn't a jab at all)...but what I'm doing is actually helping pave the way to solve the problem. If everyone gave what I did, who knows what OBD could do?

Also, to a lesser extent, because I'm plainly sick and tired of people claiming it's a reason that I can't be aware of these issues. Its absurd to suggest that, as I've explained many times. So, I resolved the potential for conflict on this point. (See what I did there? Resolved. Fixed. Eliminated.)

See what you did there? Yup, I saw it. A feeble attempt at self defense. You're a pitiful troll KK. Plain and simple. Don't like it back at you? Well then, block me. Have at it. Complain to your buddies at OBD. Get me banned.

The problem with your idea about getting you (or anyone) banned is that I have no interest in that. I didn't bring it up, that was Adger. But if we're going to drag moderators into it, then let it be fair and equitable, is all I said.

I don't care what anyone else has to say, they're perfectly free to say it. I actually encourage it, but it doesn't mean I can't rebut. Will I argue long and hard when the facts prove they're wrong? Yup. Will I show data? Yup. I'm not going to forced to stop presenting the opposing views just because you don't like it.

Don't believe me? Then why's it so important for you to keep me quiet? I don't care what you say, you can say whatever you want. I'll just present my points and perspective, which I'm entitled to, every bit as much as you. I present my perspective, adamantly and deliberately...but find me one place in my entire history on this site where I called someone a "troll". (You won't).

You, on the other hand, insist on name-calling and personal insults because I don't agree with you. You (and others) want me banned, silenced, or whatever - but the only thing like that I suggested was that folks who don't care for the discussion in a thread just not read it. I didn't say ban anyone.

Oh, and I noticed you completely omitted any acknowledgement of the areas you asserted, and I showed where you were wrong. No worries, facts are what they are - doesn't matter if anyone gets banned, or whom.

#%&*$# off. There. Ban me.

Guys. This has always been an excellent, courteous and helpful forum. You are in the (unintentional) process of ruining that. When we reach the point of name calling and personal attacks, isn't it time to maybe turn off the computer and take a break. This forum is about trying to help one another, right?

I agree Scout and I've been guilty of the above,I should have stayed away and il always hold my hands up and I will this time,but there's something about the derailing of threads that ranks with me,if it was the 1st time I wouldn,t have even opened my mouth but it isn't and i personally find it's bang out of order. I think it's a matter of respect and decency to the OP of ANY thread not to derail/go OT. And If a moderater decides I or others have been out of order then fair dues il accept any decision they make.
Cheers Adger

The problem is, he's going to do it again and again. It's already starting in my Tweaker's Challenge thread.

Pretty much every single game on PC I have ever played has stuttered at some point. Pheonix Point, brand-new game - stutters often. I have a very high end system nicely configured but who cares. Many other games stutter at some point.
Since running an Amiga 500 with its custom super smooth graphics hardware then and going to PC in 1992 I have never been satisfied with any program on PC since then, they are pretty much all susceptible at some point on any PC I have ever owned.

There are vast number of things that increase or produce stuttering (all types).

For some in WOFF pausing and panning around the view will help load the massive amount of scenery and textures into memory and reduce any later stutter.

Please no more posts on stuttering or I will have to remove the posts or take further action.

We get it you think it's fact and others disagree. As I said before there is no need to keep hammering the point all you are effectively doing is putting the product down over and over again for some reason. $29.99 for 80 flyables, lots of textures that even change across the whole front from England to Alps, including the aircraft you may meet, the whole of the entire European theatre available you can even try to fly from one side to the other in one flight with enough fuel.. tank and troops wars actually going on below across the whole thing, even if you never go there, 100-200 aircraft in the air on their own missions all flying and fighting even if you aren't there... nuts. Not worth the money? We must be nuts anyway.

Thread locked.