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#4514622 - 04/04/20 03:58 PM Covid-19 information  
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oldgrognard Offline
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I found this to be very clear, precise, and useful.

—————————————————————————

The following is from Irene Ken physician, whose daughter is an Asst. Prof in infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University, quite informative.

* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and convert them into aggressor and multiplier cells.

* Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.

* The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam).

By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.

* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.

* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.

* Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.

* Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.

* NO BACTERICIDE OR ANTIBIOTIC SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; antibodies cannot kill what is not alive.

* NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only
-between 3 hours (fabric and porous),
-4 hours (copper and wood)
-24 hours (cardboard),
- 42 hours (metal) and
-72 hours (plastic).

But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.

* The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars.

They also need moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.

* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin.

* The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.

* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.

* NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%.

* LISTERINE IF IT SERVES! It is 65% alcohol.

* The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.

* You have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.

* You have to Moisturize dry hands from so much washing them, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.

* Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.

-JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#4514632 - 04/04/20 04:33 PM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Why masks are a good idea. Taken from comment section of one of Dr John Campbell's excellent information videos on Covid-19. ( https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbe...XFxThlkpmmUxAe_VmG1fNF2iX7Zn0B_Fs1ZEfqqY )


Research shows that viral droplets can spread 8 meters, and linger in the air for some time. That's why social distances alone will not be all that effective, though still important, and why MASK USE IS ESSENTIAL.

Let's say that universal mask use cuts infection by 5x.

Now let's see what this means in terms of exponential growth. To keep the maths simple we'll say that over some period of time 1 case will lead to ten without mask use, and two with mask use.

After 6 periods with mask use, 1 case would become:

1 2 4 8 16 32 64 cases.

But without mask use :

1 10 100 1000 10,000 100,000 1,000,000 cases

64 cases versus 1,000,000 cases.

The difference is now astronomical (over 10,000 x).

* People say that masks 'are good to stop spread rather than being infected' - even if take that as true, we still need them; that's a fake argument. If they are essential for medical workers because they work, they are essential for ordinary people because they work.

'My mask protects you. Your mask protects me.'

Not knowing if one is infected and going out without a mask is irresponsible. One would be putting other people at risk. It is no longer a matter of choice / a 'right' when it can harm (kill) others.

* People also say that masks are not perfect. True but they don't need to be. Besides cutting the infection risk, they cut the viral loading that one might get; which makes any illness that follows less severe.

* People also say that masks might be dangerous because the mask could collect viruses that might then spread to your hands when taken off. Let's think about that a moment - where would those virus droplets be if one had no mask on? Easy to wash your hands afterwards; but you cannot wash your lungs.

And remember that the assumption that infected people are all staying home is very wrong - some one third of the infected have no symptoms yet are still contagious; these people will be out and about.

Look at the reality in actual numbers of deaths around the world.

Mask use not encouraged countries - basically the West:

Italy 14,000
Spain 11,000
US 6,000
France 5,000
UK 4,000

Compare with countries where masks were used from early on - basically Asia (in China it has been the norm for many years that anyone with a cold wears a mask) :

Vietnam 0
Nepal 0
Laos 0
Mongolia 0
Cambodia 0

And these countries border China, had their first cases earlier and are much poorer than Europe and the US.


My 'Waiting for Clod' thread: http://tinyurl.com/bqxc9ee

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell, 1872 - 1970.
Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C.S. Lewis, 1898 - 1963.
#4514638 - 04/04/20 04:56 PM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: RedToo]  
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Vaderini Offline
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Quote

Mask use not encouraged countries - basically the West:

Italy 14,000
Spain 11,000
US 6,000
France 5,000
UK 4,000

Compare with countries where masks were used from early on - basically Asia (in China it has been the norm for many years that anyone with a cold wears a mask) :

Vietnam 0
Nepal 0
Laos 0
Mongolia 0
Cambodia 0

And these countries border China, had their first cases earlier and are much poorer than Europe and the US.

That is not a fair comparison. The reason why the death rate is so high in a lot of western countries is because a combination of the demographic of the country (lots of old people) and a fast putthrough after the virus entered the zone (Schengen).

1) Not all asian areas you mentioned are transparant democracies, which can influence the statistics (just look at the chinese figures and corona censorship)
2) Vietnam immediately put the country in lock-down the second there was a chance of the virus entering the country, this is politically and economically impossible in the EU
3) People in the asian areas you mentioned don't travel to other countries on a monthly basis, and barely even come out of their own urban area. Not-traveling massively reduces the spread of the virus.
4) the Western people don't know how to properly handle and take care of a mask. Masks are useless if not used correctly. Furthermore, only asian immigrants seem to have them standard at home, which would require the rest of the population to get them. This will lead to massive hoarding problems and black market trading. Also, using masks will lead to massive public thinking of "I wear a mask, so no harm can be done to me". We've seen this already with youth thinking the virus cannot hurt them and ignoring the government advice.

Originally Posted by RedToo
And remember that the assumption that infected people are all staying home is very wrong - some one third of the infected have no symptoms yet are still contagious; these people will be out and about.

Yes, and this is why a (partial) lockdown is in place in most countries carrying the virus. If everybody stays at home, there is little chance of the virus to spread.

Every country and population is different, and each requires a different approach to get as little infected as possible.

#4514697 - 04/05/20 01:13 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: oldgrognard]  
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a Papa Murphy pizza that you put in the oven at 400 F for 20 min should destroy the virus if it's on the pizza


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4514709 - 04/05/20 04:06 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Zamzow Offline
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Hands and face. HANDS AND FACE.

Isolation between the two unless disinfected. But what do I know after spending 2 years dealing with infectious patient rooms in a nursing home infected with H1N1 and H3N2...

HANDS AND FACE.

Wait - I must be on some political agenda! Someone needs to correct my bad information! I must be working for the soap and hand sanitation industry! I must be BIG PHARMA!

#4514713 - 04/05/20 05:33 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: oldgrognard]  
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orbyxP Online content
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Due to the unique properties of this virus lasting hours via air droplets, new research suggests it could travel up to 25 feet.

Link: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763852

"Turbulent Gas Clouds and Respiratory Pathogen Emissions" by Lydia Bourouiba, PhD at MIT.

Last edited by orbyxP; 04/05/20 05:38 AM.
#4514715 - 04/05/20 06:58 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: orbyxP]  
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Docjonel Offline
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Clearly, this virus is extraordinarily transmissable, almost on scale with measles. I believe the 6 foot social distancing figure being widely used is inaccurate, totally insufficient, and gives people a false sense of security. I do believe the SARS-CoV-2 virus is capable of staying airborne for some time or it would not have spread so easily.
One of the early foci of infection in the US was the Biogen Corporation conference that was held in Boston in late February. More than 100 cases have been directily linked to this gathering. These people were not necessarily in direct or even close physical proximity to each other yet they caught and spread this disease on a significant scale. This thing is eventually going to burn through the whole population unless a vaccine is developed first.


"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" -- Mark 8:36
#4514716 - 04/05/20 07:14 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: Docjonel]  
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Zamzow Offline
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Originally Posted by Docjonel
Clearly, this virus is extraordinarily transmissable, almost on scale with measles. I believe the 6 foot social distancing figure being widely used is inaccurate, totally insufficient, and gives people a false sense of security. I do believe the SARS-CoV-2 virus is capable of staying airborne for some time or it would not have spread so easily.
One of the early foci of infection in the US was the Biogen Corporation conference that was held in Boston in late February. More than 100 cases have been directily linked to this gathering. These people were not necessarily in direct or even close physical proximity to each other yet they caught and spread this disease on a significant scale. This thing is eventually going to burn through the whole population unless a vaccine is developed first.


Or maybe it's because the general public is just too stupid and stubborn and proud. You say you're a physician. I'm certainly not, but I've worked in multiple healthcare facilities during multiple outbreaks, and even THERE people were stupid.

In public?

There's just too many people who are either too stupid or flat out don't care. Separation? I see lines with tape and "X" marks and half the population completely disregards. I've seen people get OFFENDED over maintaining space, the sentiment being "Excuse ME? You think I'M going to give you a disease?".

I have a ROOMMATE who WORKS IN A NURSING HOME (same one I used to work at) and he STILL refuses to wash his hands (or get his daughter to) upon re-entering the house after being out in public. Same exact attitude - "No way I'M carrying the virus".

His justification? "Dude I get my temperature taken every day before each shift, I'm good". As if that's a preventative measure...

People are just stupid, and while you can't fix stupid coronavirus sure will kill a lot of stupid...

#4514720 - 04/05/20 08:34 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: oldgrognard]  
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RedToo Offline
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Just looked at the Wikipedia page, don't know why I didn't earlier, comprehensive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_coronavirus_pandemic


My 'Waiting for Clod' thread: http://tinyurl.com/bqxc9ee

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell, 1872 - 1970.
Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C.S. Lewis, 1898 - 1963.
#4514748 - 04/05/20 02:05 PM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: Zamzow]  
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Originally Posted by Zamzow
Hands and face. HANDS AND FACE.

Isolation between the two unless disinfected. But what do I know after spending 2 years dealing with infectious patient rooms in a nursing home infected with H1N1 and H3N2...

HANDS AND FACE.

Wait - I must be on some political agenda! Someone needs to correct my bad information! I must be working for the soap and hand sanitation industry! I must be BIG PHARMA!



Well if you want to get arrogant about it... you did claim that surgical masks were only to protect the patient from your germs and not the other way around and that's false. So you might want to dial back your claimed expertise.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4514749 - 04/05/20 02:07 PM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: Docjonel]  
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Originally Posted by Docjonel
I do believe the SARS-CoV-2 virus is capable of staying airborne for some time or it would not have spread so easily.


Yep, it was announced a few days ago that COVID19 can live in the air for a few hours.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4514913 - 04/06/20 07:01 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Zamzow
Hands and face. HANDS AND FACE.

Isolation between the two unless disinfected. But what do I know after spending 2 years dealing with infectious patient rooms in a nursing home infected with H1N1 and H3N2...

HANDS AND FACE.

Wait - I must be on some political agenda! Someone needs to correct my bad information! I must be working for the soap and hand sanitation industry! I must be BIG PHARMA!



Well if you want to get arrogant about it... you did claim that surgical masks were only to protect the patient from your germs and not the other way around and that's false. So you might want to dial back your claimed expertise.


I was talking about simple paper masks, which is mostly what you get in the field - now what are YOUR actual working credentials besides "armchair expert" on this? As I said, cool down. No need to personally insult other members. So don’t do it.

Last edited by oldgrognard; 04/06/20 11:04 AM.
#4514934 - 04/06/20 11:09 AM Re: Covid-19 information [Re: Zamzow]  
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Originally Posted by Zamzow
now what are YOUR actual working credentials besides "armchair expert" on this? As I said, cool down. No need to personally insult other members. So don’t do it.



Certified Sterile Technician (retired).


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982

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