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#4510214 - 03/09/20 09:11 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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Bohemond Offline
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I ran dual beams on my V. That was pre-engineering days for me. Bulls were a huge issue once shields are down. Even with engineering, it’s still an issue I feel. That’s the primary reason I opted not to do a Vulture this time around.

#4510223 - 03/09/20 09:58 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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Quote
I ran dual beams on my V. That was pre-engineering days for me. Bulls were a huge issue once shields are down


I switched from dual beams to dual pulse for power issues. Pulses would stay up longer firing, pre-engineering that is.

Recluse, Neph and I have been testing and getting used to small again. I have switched out my Fragsjawdrop for a large multi-canon engineered with oversized / corrosive. I think I'll get more hits with it, we'll see. So far I haven't lost shields yet and I've actually been doing stupid things to test them. I have been running 2-1-3 on my pips as well. 3 to wep and I can fire the beam indefinitely.

Updated the build as it had a few mistakes on it. https://s.orbis.zone/6as6

DBond your armor choice is a good move to increase jump, however if shields drop I'd be concerned. That's why I kept military grade as I know I'll keep pounding away on them. Your build is pretty similar to mine as well. Our shield differences are interesting choices. BTW Guardian Shield Boosters will take forever to get shields back if ever. If they drop RUN LIKE YOUR ON FIRE!!! That's why I don't use them anymore.

Last edited by WingNuts01; 03/09/20 10:02 PM.

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#4510225 - 03/09/20 10:45 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: Bohemond]  
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Originally Posted by Bohemond
I ran dual beams on my V. That was pre-engineering days for me. Bulls were a huge issue once shields are down. Even with engineering, it’s still an issue I feel. That’s the primary reason I opted not to do a Vulture this time around.


That makes sense. Two weapons is limiting, but I was killing OK with it last night, and anyway it's got more pop than my Courier! The thing about this ship is, that with infinite firing time, gimbals and insane maneuverability I feel like I can just shoot and not stop. Unless he flips to face-tank me, or goes reverski, there's nothing a NPC can do to shake this thing. I can just keep the beams on it until it dies. Big ships like Condas and Gunships can still take a while, but I'm used to it from the Courier and this ship kills better than that. I don't try to kill ships like that solo anyway. I'll shadow a high-ranked big ship until something shoots at it. When flying small ships have I no problem just getting my tags in while the allies gang up on anything Clipper and above.

Your choice of a Cobra IV though gives you a lot more armament flexibility. Five hardpoints right? That's more than any other small ship I reckon. On the other hand, supporting five weapons can prove it's own build challenge. I'm not a Horizons early adopter so I've not had the pleasure myself.

Originally Posted by WingNuts01
DBond your armor choice is a good move to increase jump, however if shields drop I'd be concerned. That's why I kept military grade as I know I'll keep pounding away on them.


I see it as my hull is actually better protected than yours, and without 40t of armor, because of the resistances. I base it entirely on what Coriolis is showing me, and maybe it's not accurate? Not sure. But comparing explosive/'kinetic/thermal HP it's 1869/2006/2218 vs 1429/1667/2000. If those values are correct I think my hull is more effectively protected maybe is the way to say it. Not that I want to put yours down, just talking build theory smile

If any weapons ignore resistances raw integrity will be better. Do NPCs use weapons that ignore resistances?

Once I farm more tungsten I'll see fairly significant improvement here as I finish off the G5 and add missing experimentals.

Quote
Our shield differences are interesting choices. BTW Guardian Shield Boosters will take forever to get shields back if ever. If they drop RUN LIKE YOUR ON FIRE!!! That's why I don't use them anymore.


Yeah, I was wondering about your choice (ELP). I almost went the same route, but I found power was manageable as it came together so went Thermal Resist. And I agree it's interesting, because we ended up with nearly the same MJ, recharge and recovery times, and explosive shield resistance going two very different routes. Your shields have a small kinetic superiority. Against thermal mine are more than twice as effective. Shield integrity is doubled as well, but I'm not sure what this really means. I've never had shields destroyed so means nothing I reckon. I am using one additional booster with no KWS so that has to factored in as well.

Thanks for the scoop on the shield reinforcements.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4510251 - 03/10/20 01:19 AM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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I was curious to check the pitch/roll/yaw numbers of this Vulture and compare it to my Courier.


Courier (G5 Dirty Drive Distributors)

64.98/153.81/27.36

Vulture (G5 Dirty Drag Drives)

70.53/184.72/28.55

So the Vulture is more maneuverable in all three but particularly roll (and weighs 5x as much) Gotta fly it like a 190 biggrin



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4510262 - 03/10/20 02:59 AM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted by DBond
What the DPS number on that setup PM?

.


DPS for my 4A beam laser (2) is 40.5 each.
DPS for my 3C beam laser is 25.2
DPS for my 2D frag cannon (2) is 178.1 each
DPS for my 1E frag cannon (2) is 48.9 each


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4510274 - 03/10/20 10:35 AM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I’d say the dps on the size 3 beam is mostly potential. The hard point is not much use given it's poor location set back under the nose. Imho, of course. I tend to run seekers or a gimballed mc there.

Referring to the L hard point on the Vette.

Last edited by Bohemond; 03/10/20 10:39 AM.
#4510280 - 03/10/20 11:33 AM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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Adding it up it appears that Vette's DPS is around 560, if it's that simple.

Sorry PM, I thought you'd have a build and could just report the DPS, instead of figuring them out individually, but thanks for doing so. That's a lot of firepower. 10x more than my little old Vulture haha.

Correction: I said both my Courier and Vulture have Dirty Drags, but the Courier is Dirty Drives with Drive Distributors which I found made a big difference in speed.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4510283 - 03/10/20 12:10 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted by DBond


Sorry PM, I thought you'd have a build and could just report the DPS, instead of figuring them out individually, but thanks for doing so.



No problem DBond! It actually was no big deal since I was in the game at the time I made the posting and I simply went to "Outfitting" at the station I was currently at and got the DPS data from there.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4510286 - 03/10/20 01:15 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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Similar builds here....for both Vette and Vulture..

Vulture



Fed Corvette

(this isn't the most up to date configuration... did more engineering since putting this together, notably Grade 5 Dirty Drags... otherwise this is pretty much the current build.

Last night, just after Wingy left, I tangled with a Fed Gunship in a Wing of 3. Then James (OverloadRJ45) showed up and in the time it took me to lose my focus to send a Wing Invite and turn on my Beacon, I got nailed. Lost shields and took about 10% Hull damage before I killed the Gunship, then boosted away to lick my wounds. My Powerplant was degraded to 59%. Once I rebooted and OverloadRJ45 boosted up my shields, I was back in the fight and didn't much notice the degraded PP.


My Vette on Coriolis shows 175.5 DPS

Those FRAG CANNONS really add up...but...llike the PA's, only count when up close and personal.

Last edited by Recluse; 03/10/20 01:19 PM.

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#4510287 - 03/10/20 01:21 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: Recluse]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted by Recluse


Those FRAG CANNONS really add up...but...llike the PA's, only count when up close and personal.



Yup, they are essentially space sawed-off shotguns. biggrin


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4510292 - 03/10/20 02:38 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: Recluse]  
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Originally Posted by Recluse


My Vette on Coriolis shows 175.5 DPS



Yeah, maybe the way I added up PMs numbers isn't how it works? I wonder what Coriolis would say it is.

I checked out your builds Rec and I like those resistances on your Vette. Good balance. Insane MJ numbers, but maybe all you guys have similar numbers on that boat. 18 minute recharge time is enough to go grab a beer and a sandwich biggrin

Your Vette is worth more than all of my ships put together lol.

What mods do you have on your Vulture's mutlicannon? It shows it's engineered but when I click on it nothing is selected.

Guardian FSDBs are popular in this crowd. It really helps the Vulture doesn't it? Takes the pain away. Those additional C1 slots we got last year are pretty valuable in this ship too.

About frags... I actually tried frags on my Courier and that was a fail. Close range is right and unless you're saddled up what's the point right? In a Courier thread on the FDev boards I realized that many or most players who build small, fast ships fight more or less conventionally and use the agility and high speed for defensive purposes. I took a different approach and fight at high speed, making gunnery passes (or laser passes perhaps). So frags just won't work when the window closes so quickly. It's just what I had in mind when building that ship, to be always flying it at high speed, not just to evade or find the next target.




No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4510302 - 03/10/20 04:06 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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My VULTURE Multi is Grade 5 OVERCHARGED/CORROSIVE SHELL

I pulled the Multicannon off my Anaconda where I had 2 Large Multis, this one and and another OVERCHARGED/AUTOLOADER so it would keep firing as there is no need to stack Corrosives.

I usually do a mix of HEAVY DUTY and RESISTANCE AUGMENTED on the SHIELD BOOSTERS, but I went HEAVY DUTY on both only because that was my PINNED Blueprint. I ended up going to the Engineer anyway for the Special Effect so I could have done that mix. Didn't feel like wasting more MATS to do it over.

I noticed Wingy put MODULE REINFORCEMENTS on his size 1 slots and I am thinking of doing the same since last night my Shields actually went down... frown

By the way, my Corvette Shield Megajoules are probably on the LOW side for the Corvette Club. Most of the other guys have Guardian Shield Boosters. Bohemond has something like 8000 MJ!!

Last edited by Recluse; 03/10/20 04:26 PM.

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#4510304 - 03/10/20 04:38 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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I have an overcharged corrosive (in storage).

Bo sort of touched on it earlier, but I'm in the same boat (double entendre, love those) What I mean is when I used the Vulture earlier in my Elite career I was only just beginning to engineer and had access to few and low level. So even though I thought it was a great ship, in relative terms it was not, at least compared to a fully engineered one. I struggled with the weapons in particular as I couldn't even mod beams yet, and pulse lasers at G3 don't really cut it. So I went with two MCs but struggled to strip shields, and I don't like having two guns with no autoloader and different mag capacities, resulting in the guns being out of synch, which it was because I made the other one incendiary to help with the shield issue. It was a bit of a mess and I was never happy with the weapons. Loved the way it flew, and I could protect it well enough for PvE. When I finally started unlocking more engineers I sort of moved away from the Vulture and sold it.

But now I can G5 everything. The two beams are fantastic shield strippers. I'm tempted to add the corrosive MC back in and get the best of both worlds. I really wish I could overcharge it, add corrosive AND autoloader smile

As long as I shoot these beams from inside about 600m they're pretty good against hulls, but at 1 km and out they're pretty weak. So it locks me in to guerilla warfare, like the Viet Cong grabbing 'em by the belt. Gotta keep it really tight to fight this Vulture effectively. I got in a little bounty hunting last night and was using ramming quite often as a tactic to finish ships off. That's a fun change haha.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4510305 - 03/10/20 04:49 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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My Vulture of yesteryear was barely Engineered and not fully A-Rated. Took quite a bit of materials and Engineering trips to kit it out. Luckily I scavenged the Weapons from other ships. Back in the day pre-Engineering, the regular Vulture was fine, and, since we typically were bounty hunting in WINGS of 2-4 with similar ships, FIREPOWER was never an issue. I'm surprised how capable the Engineered Vulture is today!! Until last night, my shields never went down, whether in a Wing or Solo. I felt quite confident in the HIGH RES. I won't lie, though, i appreciated the cops helping out, though it always seemed when I was facing the greatest threat, there was never one around when I needed him smile

Gradually getting used to flying a fast maneuverable ship. Despite overshooting more often than not, I have been managing to hang with the other ships and keep sustained fire on them through their maneuvers. If I could only master FA OFF maneuvering, it would be even more potent. As it is, FA OFF is great for rapid PITCH UP to get an enemy in the sights.

Last edited by Recluse; 03/10/20 04:50 PM.

Long system spec sig follows:






PowerSpec G436
Lian Li ATX 205
MSI Z490 Plus Motherboard
Intel Core i7 10700K 3.8 GHz
32 GB RAM DDR4 1600
Nvidia RTX3070

Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
Thrustmaster RCS Rudder Pedals

#4510306 - 03/10/20 04:51 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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Love the ram! Used it very effectively when I had my Chieftain. Kinda tough to ram in the Vette. At
least on purpose sigh

I seem to have NO problem ramming my wingmen, however!

Last edited by Bohemond; 03/10/20 04:54 PM.
#4510307 - 03/10/20 04:55 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: Bohemond]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
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Originally Posted by Bohemond
Kinda tough to ram in the Vette. At
least on purpose sigh



LOL! I'd say close to 50% of my dogfights against AI pirates involve one or two collisions. I have close to 6,000 shields though so I can shrug off a couple of collisions with no problem.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4510308 - 03/10/20 04:55 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: Bohemond]  
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Originally Posted by Bohemond


I seem to have NO problem ramming my wingmen, however!


This is a maneuver we have all mastered!


Long system spec sig follows:






PowerSpec G436
Lian Li ATX 205
MSI Z490 Plus Motherboard
Intel Core i7 10700K 3.8 GHz
32 GB RAM DDR4 1600
Nvidia RTX3070

Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
Thrustmaster RCS Rudder Pedals

#4510311 - 03/10/20 05:16 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: Recluse]  
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Bumping uglies, as I like say!

#4510312 - 03/10/20 05:22 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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Rec, collapsed shields was just the fact you were stopped and attention was elsewhere right? You wouldn't have lost them otherwise. I haven't had shields shot away on any ship in, well I don't really know, a year or two. I feel compelled to add "in PvE", but henceforth all of my posts assume this forthwith!

The only times I lost my shields in that time was due to collision in the Courier. One night Bo and I were dual-Courier bounty hunting and this dude Andrew Knox and I collided. Dead me instantly. That was my fifth ship loss. Each one stings smile

By the way there is an APB out on one Andrew Knox


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4510313 - 03/10/20 05:28 PM Re: Small Fighter Theory Workshop [Re: DBond]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Up to now I've only done PvE and I have zero interest in the PvP stuff to be honest. I just don't care for the stress and hassle of adversarial multiplayer stuff anymore.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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