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#4508164 - 02/23/20 08:22 AM New player, some questions  
Joined: Mar 2013
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Ranma13 Offline
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Hey everyone, I recently picked up WOFF PE and after playing it for a bit, I have some questions:

1. When in a dogfight, the AI, even veterans and aces, seem to disengage and fly home really quickly. Sometimes I'm only in a dogfight for 2-3 minutes, having taken damage and definitely losing without returning a single shot, but the AI will decide to fly home despite having a clear advantage over me. I know there's an "AI Never Back Down" option, but I'd rather keep that off. Is there a way to extend how long the AI stays in a dogfight? I should mention that this is in a 1-on-1 with no other aircraft around.

2. When the AI starts going home, they will make a beeline for the airfield, but also ignore everything else going on around them unless they're hit. This makes them incredibly easy to take down because I can take all the time I need to get in close and line up a shot. If I'm approaching from directly behind and below them, even hitting them will only put them into hunting mode, but they'll continue to fly straight and level while simultaneously taking a ton of hits. On top of that, they will only defend for a short while (20-30 seconds) before trying to go home again, so I can repeat this pattern as many times as needed until they're shot down. Combined with #1, I'm finding that often times the best way to take down an enemy is to dogfight them but not trying very hard to get into position for a shot, wait for them to inevitably break off and go home, and engage them at that time when they're a much more cooperative target. Is there any way to get them to defend preemptively if they're going home but an enemy is also closing in on them?

3. Similar to #2, one of the best ways I've found to easily get multiple kills is to attack AI that's landing at an airfield. They seem to prioritize landing over all else, so I can fly in and pick a target while facing no resistance. Like #2, if they're hit they will only dogfight for a very short while before trying to go back in for a landing. This makes it really easy to rack up a bunch of kills because none of their allies will try to come to their aid despite the battle happening right in front of them, and I can just pick off the one that's closest to landing, then take each one out in turn. Is there any way to get them to value their life over trying to land if an enemy is nearby?

4. In Rise of Flight and IL-2 Flying Circus, shooting the guns will leave smoke streaks that make it very easy to see where your shots are going. In WOFF, this is significantly harder because only the tracers are visible. Looking at some WWII gun camera footage, in some cases the smoke streaks are visible, and in other cases only the tracers are. Which is more realistic, the smoke streak effects in RoF and Flying Circus, or in WOFF?

Last edited by Ranma13; 02/23/20 08:42 AM.
#4508172 - 02/23/20 12:13 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
Joined: May 2012
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gaw1 Offline
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Hey....welcome aboard!. I'm sure you'll hear from others here but ....#1 mostly dog fights didn't last much longer than a few minutes at which point too much height had been lost, too many hits taken, or everybody just dissappeared.....which leads to #2....yes, when the AI flees....or your mates do....they tend to fly straight and they're easir to pot......it all depends on the skill of the AI....which is adjustable in quick combat or quick scenarios. In campaign mode I believe you come up against a mix of noobs, veterans, and aces....which you'd expect....the Devs have done an amazing jobs of making the squads historically accurate, and God help you if you tangle with some of the squads loaded with Aces.....they don't back off, chase you right to the ground and you're the one trying to fly straight home or dodge thru trees. The chances of this happening are much greater if you don't use the TAC....makes the chances you're going to get jumped or pay the price for inattention pretty realistic....most unpleasant. #3....i believe from past threads that the "landing" behavior of the AI is hard coded so they are indeed helpless at which point and you can bag a bunch w/out too much effort.....so mostly when AI are landing, by general concensus they get a pass, which isn't perfect but otherwise it's not considered cricket. On the other hand, if you're lucky enough to catch the other side taking off, rare, it's all in....every one of the bad chaps will want a slice of your hide the minute they leave the ground.....and it's a fair chance you'll take damage from the field guns as well. #4......there are several mods out there which you'll find here http://www.thatoneplease.co/WOFF.html that give you smoke trails, bigger tracers, etc......haven't played RoF or FC so I'm no help there. Have a ball!

#4508186 - 02/23/20 03:44 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
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Polovski Offline
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Welcome Ranma13. The AI is one of the best out there, but there are areas we have improved and can improve.
. The AI has self-preservation at the top of the list most of the time. Many pilots lost their lives when running for home. You cannot stay forever to fight to the death both will kill you, running or fighting for ever.
Even one of Britain's top aces of the day Maj.Lanoe Hawker VC DSO died trying to run for home from MvR.

Gordon Taylor (Sopwith Scout 7309) should have died after an encounter with several faster Albatros fighters, he circled endlessly as that was his only advantage, and ran for home for a brief moment here and there trying to get away. Eventually it worked as the ALb fighters lost interest and went home one by one. When he finally landed he saw his tail shot up, trailing tail control wires, and only survived as his mech had fitted dual controls without telling him!

This second example you will see much more in the next major release of WOFF. WM has been working hard on the AI and has completed work on directly on all of those areas in points 1,2,3 you mentioned above and all is dramatically improved over the cool AI.

4. The tracers now do not leave smoke trails - we used to have some that did seems people like them both ways wink - as above there are mods if you want to change that.

BTW the best way of playing WOFF is to fly and fight how you would have, rather than working out how to "beat the game".

Last edited by Polovski; 02/23/20 03:54 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4508190 - 02/23/20 04:12 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Polovski]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Originally Posted by Polovski

This second example you will see much more in the next major release of WOFF. WM has been working hard on the AI and has completed work on directly on all of those areas in points 1,2,3 you mentioned above and all is dramatically improved over the cool AI.


Did someone mention "next major release of WOFF"? Looking forward to those details when possible. smile


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#4508194 - 02/23/20 05:01 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
Joined: May 2012
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gaw1 Offline
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OOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo.....yes pls!!!

#4508195 - 02/23/20 05:12 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
Joined: Nov 2014
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Fullofit Online content
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Fullofit  Online Content
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Pol, you’ve just spilt the beans! New version!
Perhaps the best and most likely easy way to prevent enemy planes hanging around aerodromes and picking off landing planes would be to make AAA deadly around those installations. Right know some aerodromes have their Flak batteries dormant. Ghistelles comes to mind...
So, new version by Christmas then, yes?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4508197 - 02/23/20 06:33 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 241
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
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Posts: 241
Originally Posted by Ranma13
Hey everyone, I recently picked up WOFF PE and after playing it for a bit, I have some questions:

1. When in a dogfight, the AI, even veterans and aces, seem to disengage and fly home really quickly. Sometimes I'm only in a dogfight for 2-3 minutes, having taken damage and definitely losing without returning a single shot, but the AI will decide to fly home despite having a clear advantage over me. I know there's an "AI Never Back Down" option, but I'd rather keep that off. Is there a way to extend how long the AI stays in a dogfight? I should mention that this is in a 1-on-1 with no other aircraft around. ....


Without fiddling with the "ai never back down" option (I, for example, have that turned off in my sim settings) - I recommend looking for the following entry in your simulation.xml file, in the main sim folder for WOFF, and changing the two bottom values to the ones indicated in the example below:

<Individual_fighter_v_fighter
neverBackDown="n"
acDamageWt="1"
engineDamageWt="1"
pilotDamageWt="1"
moraleWt="1"
fatigueWt="10"
locationWt="1"
groundProximityWt="1"
groundProximityThreshold_met="300"
skillWt="1"
escortWt="0"

fightThreshold="-2"
withdrawThreshold="-3"/>
<!-- else go home-->

Values of -2 and -3 seem to give me good variety and slightly more prolonged one-on-one dogfights. You might also want to try a fight threshold of -1 and withdraw value of -2 if you find that the -2/-3 ratio is a bit too much in campaign mode. WOFF has the best ai in the business even at stock settings but you might get slightly longer dogfights with the tweaks suggested, although there will still be variations depending on the skill of opponents (for example, novice, veteran, ace, etc.).

Do however make a backup of the simulation.xml file before making the suggested changes.

Happy tweaking and flying,
Von S smile

Last edited by VonS; 02/23/20 06:34 PM. Reason: Fixed typos.

// FE2 on a Mac (https://tinyurl.com/FE2onMac) // WOFF on a Mac (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // FE2 FMs (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // WOFF FMs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFfms) // WOFF GPU Tuner (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFgputuner) // WOTR GPU Tuner (https://tinyurl.com/WOTRgputuner) // All VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. //
#4508200 - 02/23/20 07:03 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
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Posts: 6,711
Polovski Offline
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There they will engage more anyway and may fight on when damaged or whatever, rather than making a break for it when they really should.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4508202 - 02/23/20 07:59 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 711
BuckeyeBob Online content
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BuckeyeBob  Online Content
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Ohio, USA
The default values in WOFF UE are:
fightThreshold="0"
withdrawThreshold="-1"

In this thread from a year or two ago, I found that, as VonS stated, that values of

fightthreshold="-2"
withdrawthreshold="-3" work best at reducing the AI's tendency to run away quite so fast, but any values between these settings would seem to work.

Ideally, I would love it if these settings could be randomly or dynamically controlled by the campaign mission file to introduce a little more variety into the AI's fighting behavior. Maybe in the just (unofficially) announced major add-on?


#4508207 - 02/23/20 08:27 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 241
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
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@Pol and BB,

Thank you for the feedback gents' and pleased to hear that the -2/-3 ratio increases the frequency of "semi-stubborn" biggrin opponents showing up - my favorite to dogfight with. Have also tinkered with -3/-4 values for those two, relevant entries - but that essentially amounts to having the "ai never backs down" option turned on in the WOFF menu.

The sweet spot is around -2/-3...or, as BB has suggested, perhaps a script of some kind to vary randomly between 0/-1, -1/-2, and -2/-3 in one-on-one fights, and on occasion in formation-on-formation fights, would add even more dynamic goodness to an already stellar ai. Perhaps JJJ can set something up like that in his MultiMod....Java programming is beyond my capabilities, sorry.

Happy flying all,
Von S


// FE2 on a Mac (https://tinyurl.com/FE2onMac) // WOFF on a Mac (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // FE2 FMs (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // WOFF FMs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFfms) // WOFF GPU Tuner (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFgputuner) // WOTR GPU Tuner (https://tinyurl.com/WOTRgputuner) // All VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. //
#4508208 - 02/23/20 08:35 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: VonS]  
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 711
BuckeyeBob Online content
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BuckeyeBob  Online Content
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Ohio, USA
Originally Posted by VonS
@Pol and BB,

Thank you for the feedback gents' and pleased to hear that the -2/-3 ratio increases the frequency of "semi-stubborn" biggrin opponents showing up - my favorite to dogfight with. Have also tinkered with -3/-4 values for those two, relevant entries - but that essentially amounts to having the "ai never backs down" option turned on in the WOFF menu.

The sweet spot is around -2/-3...or, as BB has suggested, perhaps a script of some kind to vary randomly between 0/-1, -1/-2, and -2/-3 in one-on-one fights, and on occasion in formation-on-formation fights, would add even more dynamic goodness to an already stellar ai. Perhaps JJJ can set something up like that in his MultiMod....Java programming is beyond my capabilities, sorry.

Happy flying all,
Von S

thumbsup thumbsup

#4508215 - 02/23/20 09:49 PM Re: New player, some questions [Re: Ranma13]  
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77_Scout Offline
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Perhaps it is my imagination, but when an AI pilot exits the fight they seem to do so at less than full throttle. I get the feeling that they go into a 'cruise home' mode rather than a 'run like hell' mode. This is based on my routine ability to catch up to them as they leave.

If that is so, then a different approach to curing the shoot-em-in-the-back problem would be to tweek the AI's 'run away' action to be at full throttle.

If I have this all wrong and they already exit at full throttle then, well, I am just out to lunch and ignore the idea.


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