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#4506754 - 02/09/20 06:02 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
Oh, please. All of the references made to earlier Star Trek episodes should tell you this was made for fans of the show. I'm a Star Trek fan. This was very good.


That really is neither here nor there. Given that it is in the Star Trek universe, there were going to be some references to the older shows, but fan service is not the same thing as capturing the spirit of the show. From the previews and the from what has been described here, it does not look or sound like Star Trek (just like the new Star Wars trilogy did not really look, sound, or feel like Star Wars in a lot of subtle ways, or the JJ Abrams Star Wars reboot did not look, sound, or feel like Star Trek).

The basic premise of the show, that Star Fleet is corrupt or decayed at its core, inherently is not Star Trek. (Before anyone says anything, yes I know both TNG and DS9 explored the idea that Star Fleet made mistakes and was, at times, vulnerable to conspiracies from within, but those were always presented as aberrations, in part due to external manipulation, not something at the heart of Star Fleet). As an American, Star Fleet (from TOS through DS9) was always a sci fi stand-in for the United States, not perfect, but generally well-intentioned and getting it right in the end. A show that makes the good guys the bad guys is not something I am likely to be interested in.

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#4506778 - 02/09/20 12:29 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Pooch
Oh, please. All of the references made to earlier Star Trek episodes should tell you this was made for fans of the show. I'm a Star Trek fan. This was very good.


That really is neither here nor there. Given that it is in the Star Wars universe, there were going to be some references to the older shows, but fan service is not the same thing as capturing the spirit of the show. From the previews and the from what has been described here, it does not look or sound like Star Trek (just like the new Star Wars trilogy did not really look, sound, or feel like Star Wars in a lot of subtle ways, or the JJ Abrams Star Wars reboot did not look, sound, or feel like Star Trek).

The basic premise of the show, that Star Fleet is corrupt or decayed at its core, inherently is not Star Trek. (Before anyone says anything, yes I know both TNG and DS9 explored the idea that Star Fleet made mistakes and was, at times, vulnerable to conspiracies from within, but those were always presented as aberrations, in part due to external manipulation, not something at the heart of Star Fleet). As an American, Star Fleet (from TOS through DS9) was always a sci fi stand-in for the United States, not perfect, but generally well-intentioned and getting it right in the end. A show that makes the good guys the bad guys is not something I am likely to be interested in.


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“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4506803 - 02/09/20 05:31 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I disagree.

Star Fleet and it's members not trusting it's enemies is nothing new. Kirk hated the Klingons with a passion, O'Brian the same with the cardassians and so forth.

Members of Star Fleet has also on plenty occations gone above and beyond to keep conflict going or start it. A cabal of klingons, romulan and star fleet personell was more than willing to sacrifice Kirk to keep a war going between the klingons and Federation.

(and the UFP is much more like the UN than the US)

#4506923 - 02/10/20 04:26 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
This video pretty much sums up my expectations for "Picard" as well. And despite the title, it isn't all just the modern political tie ins either. It's the destruction of a beloved character.



https://youtu.be/iYtyQAXkUkc


Thank you for sharing this. I'm saddened that Stewart decided to frolick in politics and seems to me he doesn't "get" a large segment of the population. I'm frankly tired of shows cramming politics or "woke" bullpuckey down our throats. Good stories, good plots, good characters--that's what I want to be entertained. I'll make up my own darn mind about everything else on my own time.

#4506926 - 02/10/20 04:53 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Stewart also recently became a US citizen. I wonder now what his real motivations were behind that move?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4506966 - 02/10/20 10:16 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
This video pretty much sums up my expectations for "Picard" as well. And despite the title, it isn't all just the modern political tie ins either. It's the destruction of a beloved character.



https://youtu.be/iYtyQAXkUkc


Thank you for sharing this. I'm saddened that Stewart decided to frolick in politics and seems to me he doesn't "get" a large segment of the population. I'm frankly tired of shows cramming politics or "woke" bullpuckey down our throats. Good stories, good plots, good characters--that's what I want to be entertained. I'll make up my own darn mind about everything else on my own time.


thankfully you are in a minority - plenty of us who don't care about the "politics" and enjoy a cracking good show.

#4506978 - 02/11/20 12:04 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted by EAF331 MadDog
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
This video pretty much sums up my expectations for "Picard" as well. And despite the title, it isn't all just the modern political tie ins either. It's the destruction of a beloved character.



https://youtu.be/iYtyQAXkUkc


Thank you for sharing this. I'm saddened that Stewart decided to frolick in politics and seems to me he doesn't "get" a large segment of the population. I'm frankly tired of shows cramming politics or "woke" bullpuckey down our throats. Good stories, good plots, good characters--that's what I want to be entertained. I'll make up my own darn mind about everything else on my own time.


thankfully you are in a minority - plenty of us who don't care about the "politics" and enjoy a cracking good show.


Thankfully I'm part of the silent majority. We lurk. We exist. And we'll let you know what we think when we vote, and there's little you can do about us.

Shows should entertain, not preach.

#4507009 - 02/11/20 04:37 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Keep it to the PWEC forum guys.


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#4507030 - 02/11/20 10:53 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite
WTF
Keep it to the PWEC forum guys.



Oh come on, there's nothing PWEC been said. I think adults can acknowledge that there is a political component to Star Trek, especially the modern versions.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4507041 - 02/11/20 11:43 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4



Oh come on, there's nothing PWEC been said. I think adults can acknowledge that there is a political component to Star Trek, especially the modern versions.


+1


Even ST:TOS has some episodes that were quite political for its time.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4507416 - 02/14/20 08:07 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Another strong episode I felt, I like the character building of Picard and the pacing isn't dictated by the need to tell a full story in one episode.

#4507424 - 02/14/20 09:13 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Stewart also recently became a US citizen. I wonder now what his real motivations were behind that move?


Taxes...plain and simple. Almost every Brit or Canadian who has gained U.S. Citizenship (Patrick Stewart, William Shatner, etc.) does so, at least in part to escape the outrageous taxes of a cradle to grave economic system.

So, next time you think U.S. taxes are outrageous (and I believe they are), set up residency in England or Canada for a couple of years. You will appreciate America a bit more.

BTW, lest anyone think I'm bashing our British or Canadian brothers and sisters, think again. I love both countries and their peoples. My father's entire family is British and I am in love with that culture. I have travelled to Canada dozens of times, and find the residents there to be among the friendliest and most thoughtful people anywhere in the world.

I just like to keep more of my paycheck than either country permits.


"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." -- Ephesians 6: 12-13 KJV
#4507442 - 02/14/20 11:45 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Shatner is still solely a Canadian.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4508812 - 02/28/20 06:18 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Good episode. Boldly going forward into your nightname in the case of Picard.

#4508885 - 02/29/20 09:42 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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At least they got the obligatory 'Star Wars bar' scene out of the way in the last episode.
Now, they seem to have realised that there was a bit of a mix-up in casting between ST:Picard and the next LOTR movie and have killed off 'Elnor'.

#4510780 - 03/13/20 07:07 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Lots of information and pulling of threads together in this episode.

#4513421 - 03/29/20 11:38 PM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Got a free month of CBS All Access so I watched the series. In some ways it was a little better than I expected but mostly it was still a disappointment. Picard at least had not lost the character that made him Picard.

It seems they had a checklist for each episode where they had to get in a couple of "f**ks" and at least one "G-D" in the first 15 minutes of each episode to fill their "coarse language" quota, none of which advanced the scene at all. When Kirk said "Let's get the hell out of here", the only time he ever cursed in the entire series, in "City on the Edge of Forever" the very rarity of the curse gave emphasis to his anguish over Edith Keelers death. Cursing just to have curse words in the series, to be modern and edgy, is just stupid.

Likewise the gratuitous Icheb eye removal scene was over the top.

Starfleet is further denigrated throughout the series: ordering Rios former captain to murder the androids. All of this can't be blamed on one Romulan mole (Commodore Oh) as others in Starfleet obviously went along with all of this. By the way, is the entire upper echelon of Starfleet now comprised of females? Sure seemed so.

I did like the Rios character, but he's the only new character in the series that appealed to me.

Finally there's Data. Of course I understand Brent Spiner not wanting to come back to play Data at his age (but it could have been explained) but there is no "in universe" explanation for killing Data at the end of the series. Bruce Maddox and Soong have perfected the ultimate android body that fully mimics a human and they have Data's memories backed up on a "hard drive".... doesn't the obvious solution scream out to everyone? Why not load those memories into a new Data body, one that allows him to finally be (almost) completely human? They could have even decided to give him an appropriately aged body making it believable for Spiner to play him again. Even if he didn't want to continue on the series, he could have chosen to stay with his "children". It just made no sense to do what they did, it was Picard playing Kevorkian with a patient who was curable.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4513459 - 03/30/20 08:44 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Data could also go the Bicentennial Man route.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4513472 - 03/30/20 10:43 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I have not seen Picard yet but it's obvious based on what I've read from both critics and fans that this is not your "grandfather's" Star Trek anymore. It seems like Star Trek has now gone through as many stylistic/tone changes as the Star Wars franchise.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4513473 - 03/30/20 10:44 AM Re: Make it so: a ST Picard series! [Re: DM]  
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Originally Posted by DM
Data could also go the Bicentennial Man route.



If they had done as I suggest he would have been doing so, as Picards new "android" body isn't immortal.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
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