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#4505858 - 02/02/20 02:31 AM Isn't this a Junkers 52?  
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From this show I am watching
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Anyone watch this? For 99 cents each, I will take a look. There aren't enough movies about the Russians in World War 2. https://www.amazon.com/The-Dawns-Here-Are-Quiet/dp/B01MZ9D6L7


I didn't know they had forward firing machine guns on the nose. Wiki only lists 2 guns but of course Wiki can be wrong at times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_52

Quote
Armament
Guns: * 1 × 7.92 mm (0.312 in) MG 15 machine gun or 13 mm (0.512 in) MG 131 machine gun in a dorsal position
1 × 7.92 mm (0.312 in) MG 15 machine gun in a semi-retractable bustbin turret


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#4505870 - 02/02/20 10:12 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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yea , no, that would never have happened ... ever.


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#4505884 - 02/02/20 01:40 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Ah yes, the jack of all trades Auntie ju, in ground attack configuration. Lucky they didn't use them against the RAF in the Battle of Britain!


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#4505898 - 02/02/20 04:39 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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How many paratroopers does it carry. Later in one episode it shows carrying a group of paratroopers. I swear there were 6 too many. I'll go back and re watch that scene and count.

update. I rewatch it and counted 16. Wiki says it carries 17 passengers. The Russians got it right. I thought it was too many cause in the movies you only see about 12 in the Allies DC-3 based Skytrain .

That is also strange cause WIKI says the Skytrain carries 28 passengers. Even with fully equipped paratroopers, one trooper wouldn't take up the room of 2 passengers?


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#4505903 - 02/02/20 06:03 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Have you ever looked at a fully kitted out paratrooper?

Lots of gear for sure, makes them big(ger).



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#4505907 - 02/02/20 07:02 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Never seen one except what I see on internet, tv, movies.


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#4505912 - 02/02/20 07:38 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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All the bulk of the chutes and lines in the airplane, plus a loadmaster or two, uses up a lot of space. All the crap the paratroopers are wearing may also max out the weight or CG limits - not sure about that though.

#4505914 - 02/02/20 07:58 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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NoFlyBoy Offline
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Thank you Longbow. There are several airplane museums that have World War 2 aircraft around the USA and in England I would love to visit one day when I win the lottery.


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#4505925 - 02/02/20 10:11 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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The Ju-52 did NOT have synchronized machine guns mounted in the nose!!


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#4505958 - 02/03/20 03:54 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
The Ju-52 did NOT have synchronized machine guns mounted in the nose!!


That's my thought too when I saw it. But wanted to make sure and hear from the experts here. Thanks.

Also before I look at Wiki, I didn't know about this:

Guns: * 1 × 7.92 mm (0.312 in) MG 15 machine gun or 13 mm (0.512 in) MG 131 machine gun in a dorsal position
1 × 7.92 mm (0.312 in) MG 15 machine gun in a semi-retractable bustbin turret

I have never seen a Junkers 52 with a dorsal gun or a dustbin turret in any movies/TV or in World War 2 documentaries .


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#4505959 - 02/03/20 04:01 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: Pooch]  
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Longbow got it. It's no so much the size as the weight. A combat-ready paratrooper needs to be able to survive and fight for three days before getting relief. With weapon, ammunition, food, poncho, shelter half and any sundries he may want to carry (change of clothes, a couple pairs of socks, etc.) added to the parachute rig he can weigh as much as 300 pounds, or 150 kilos, maybe more. Many of the D-Day paratroopers needed a person or two on the ground pushing and one in the aircraft pulling to get aboard their aircraft. I don't know what the payload of a JU-52 was, but ten to twelve people like that would probably be close to its maximum. They might be able to squeeze a couple more in if they reduce the fuel load to a minimum.


Originally Posted by Pooch
The Ju-52 did NOT have synchronized machine guns mounted in the nose!!

The image looks like the gun is firing down and away from the aircraft, so synchronization wouldn't be needed.


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#4505961 - 02/03/20 04:09 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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300 lbs? Really? I remember in Band of Brothers they said 60 lbs.


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#4505968 - 02/03/20 08:51 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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I think he meant 300 lbs total weight. Man, weapons and gear.


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#4505972 - 02/03/20 10:29 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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I always thought that Fallschirmjager didn't carry anywhere near the amount of armament and equipment that allied paras did. This I believe was why they suffered such high attrition when used in such as the Crete campaign and were grounded due to unacceptable losses.



#4505977 - 02/03/20 11:37 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: BD-123]  
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Originally Posted by BD-123
I always thought that Fallschirmjager didn't carry anywhere near the amount of armament and equipment that allied paras did. This I believe was why they suffered such high attrition when used in such as the Crete campaign and were grounded due to unacceptable losses.



Yup. After Crete the Fallschirmjaeger units were almost exclusively used as standard infantry.


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#4506024 - 02/03/20 07:04 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: semmern]  
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Originally Posted by semmern
I think he meant 300 lbs total weight. Man, weapons and gear.



Modern day? More like 350 with the chute. Dump the chute and you have about 300 pounds total. I weight 197, The body armor, rifle, ammo, and ruck work out to be about another 100lbs.

WWII combat kit for a paratrooper was about 75lbs with the rifle (that M1/Bar weighs a ton) then you have ammo and gear.


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#4506045 - 02/03/20 09:27 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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That's a lot of stuff!


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#4506046 - 02/03/20 09:29 PM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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"The image looks like the gun is firing down and away from the aircraft, so synchronization wouldn't be needed."
I don't know. It looks to me as though those tracers are passing over the leading edge of the wings. Are the pilot and co-pilot supposed to be firing machine guns out of their windows? Lol!
The airplane actually was armed, of course, with that dorsal gun and the bathtub type belly position that could be lowered when needed. They were even used as bombers during the Spanish Civil War.


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#4506058 - 02/04/20 01:02 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Comrade Pooch: IN Russia that's how they do special effects! biggrin


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#4506062 - 02/04/20 02:06 AM Re: Isn't this a Junkers 52? [Re: Timothy]  
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Originally Posted by Timothy
Originally Posted by semmern
I think he meant 300 lbs total weight. Man, weapons and gear.

Modern day? More like 350 with the chute. Dump the chute and you have about 300 pounds total. I weight 197, The body armor, rifle, ammo, and ruck work out to be about another 100lbs.

I was trying to be conservative so as not to sound like I was making it up. I was a very fit 195 when I did that stuff forty years ago and it was tough to move around. I don't think the airborne shuffle was about safety as much as getting you used to the ONLY way you could move when you were loaded for bear.

No factual knowledge, but I'm guessing the German paratroops weren't as heavily laden because the concept was so novel, particularly early on in the war, and followup troops would not be far behind. Like any new technology, there's no book on how to beat it. But as time wears on weaknesses start to show and tactics to combat them are developed. Three days was the standard when I was in. I have no idea what it is now.


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