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#4504535 - 01/22/20 02:37 AM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I prefer manual, but used cars with manual transmissions are way overpriced for the cars I like (BMW)

BMW does have fantastic steptronic transmissions which are a fair approximation of a sequential gearbox, though it's not quite the same and you can definitely feel the loss of performance, and the shifts are not as quick as you can be with a real manual, especially newer 6 speed manuals.

My next car will be a manual M series, probably a mid 2000's E46 M3.

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#4504553 - 01/22/20 08:30 AM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: Chucky]  
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Originally Posted by Chucky


Also,I prefer a traditional auto,I don't go in for these new-fangled dual transmission things.


Useful in snow or on the narrow lanes of Devon where my eldest daughter has moved to. Engine braking saves on disc pad wear. 99% of my driving is in auto mood though.


"Don't mention Cobbaton! I did once, but I think I got a way with it!!"
#4504563 - 01/22/20 11:38 AM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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So the bottom line seems to be that if you are the type of driver who actually enjoys driving and view driving as a casual sport then the manual transmission is the way to go but if you see driving as strictly a routine necessary activity then the automatic transmission is more practical and simple to use.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 01/22/20 11:39 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4504569 - 01/22/20 11:50 AM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I drive a manual and while I can see the advantages of an automatic for someone who spends a lot of time in queues, I do enjoy being able to perform the occasional heel-and-toe. It makes driving more engaging for me which is why I also do not like the modern electric parking brakes. I've saved myself from trouble on a couple of occasions pulling the good old mechanical parking brake.


Jens C. Lindblad


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#4504571 - 01/22/20 12:28 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I already know that when I finally make my first trip to Europe I’ll be mostly walking and using public transportation. I will not be driving since most of the cars there are manuals!


This is no longer true. Many manufacturers no longer offer manuals at all. Mercedes and BMW are good examples. You are perfectly able to rent an auto car, indeed most rental firms offer autos as a selectable option when you search for cars.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4504572 - 01/22/20 12:30 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Thanks for that correction semmern!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4504583 - 01/22/20 02:27 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I love manuals. I hate automatics.

Every car I've owned since I was 16 was a manual except for one and only one car, which was a POS. My current car is a manual. It is my 3rd Civic. When I bought it though, I was surprised because Honda had it listed as being available in manual in their catalog...yet I had to have it special ordered and built and delivered to the dealer to get it. This was the first time I've had to wait for delivery. I had to wait something like 5 weeks (they gave me a Honda Element as a loaner). This was my first real indication that manuals were going to the wayside. The dealer said that the automatic transmissions were getting so well designed that they actually had slightly better fuel mileage than manuals.

But anyway, I love manuals. I don't have a problem with them in traffic. I drive in Chicago traffic all the time (the intersection of 290/294/88, known as the "Hillside Strangler" was rated in the top 3 for worse traffic tieups, and ranked ahead of the Bay Bridge) and don't mind it at all. On fact, I enjoy it, and I'm so used to it, I'm not even conscious of my shifting. I read here alot of people don't like to drive sticks in traffic because they don't like to downshift and engine brake. To be honest, I never do either. If I need to slow down, I throw her in neutral and coast down/bleed energy and/or use the brake. I've tried downshifting and engine braking before and the car lurches forward and makes an obnoxious noise and you get the same results--I feel like it's inelegant. Neutral and braking is much more smooth. Plus I'd rather spend money to replace the brakes than the clutch and transmission should it come to it--but I've never lost a clutch or transmission to that in 32 years of driving a stick.

But I gotta tell you what I love about it is not only the mileage, but most of all the control I get. I have acceleration on demand, without any delays. And in Chicago winters, well, if it wasn't for a manual transmission where I can disconnect the transmission from the wheels and dump all that torque when I hit a patch of black ice--well it has saved my butt a bunch of times. Being able to shift into a higher gear than is needed also helps prevent my tires from spinning as fast and losing control when trying to drive through snow patches.

Plus it's also fun. With all the simming and piloting I do, it's nice to feel a stick in my hand and I often make a turn and can see the HUD symbology in my head as I pull behind another car, haha.

I sometimes do have to take my left foot and put it closer to my seat with the knee up when I drive an automatic so I don't hit a brake pedal that I thought was a clutch. Other than that I can still drive an automatic fine. I just never really understood really why they have a tach in automatics since what does the driver care about RPMs when the car shifts for them? It makes me feel like automatic drivers are stick shifter wannabes. Which leads me to why I absolutely hate paddle shifters. Why get an automatic if you want to shift gears? Just get a manual then and stop pretending!

I have taught people how to drive a stick before, some in as little as no more than 10 minutes. I'm a bit unorthodox about it though. I may take a few minutes to explain the principle...clutch in, 1st gear, bring the clutch up slow, add a little gas--but that's it. We do a few laps in a parking lot then the real fun begins. I take them to a hill and have them start the car on the uphill and drive it up the hill. They learn REAL fast how to not stall in this case. To me, the worst thing you can do in a stick is stall out while in the middle of heavy traffic. You have to make sure you don't roll back and hit a car, or get the car started again before someone hits you or gets road rage. You have to be able to recover and restart the car under stress and get moving ASAP. And this takes great clutchwork and the ability to perform under stress. Remember in "Glory" when the one guy was a good shot, and Col Gould knew that yeah that's great when you're casually shooting, but how about when someone is firing off a gun in your ear and screaming at you? Or when Tom Cruise was shooting at the Japanese soldier on the range and yelling "SHOOT ME!"? Same idea. Learning under stress gets you ready for the real thing.

So I put them on a hill. They start the car, and try to get up the hill. Of course they stall right off the bat, then I immediately start yelling "Get the car started, get it going! the guy behind you is honking and yelling! You're gonna roll back and hit him! Get it started GET IT GOING GO GO GO! HEre come another car, it's gonna hit you because you're stuck in the intersection and he doesn't see you move it move it MOVE IT!"

Usually, by the third time, they have it downpat no problem. Then I give them their wings, haha.

Yeah, I'm a jerk, but they thank me afterwards.

Oh, funny story. My wife was born and raised in Poland but she left there before she really got a chance to learn to drive there. So she doesn't really remember how to drive a stick so I taught her. We were at a stop sign on a local street and I didn't need to do the stress test because a cop pulled up behind us waiting for us to go. That was stress enough. She kept stalling and she was freaking out. I didn't want the cop to get annoyed so I jumped out of the car and ran to his (which in retrospect was probably a stupid idea, but I had on my mind to explain what was going on first and foremost). When I got there he was sitting there cracking up. I said, "Sorry, I'm teaching her stick" and he just kept laughing and said, "It's alright I'm in no rush." So I got back in my car and my wife get the car moving, but in her stress, she popped the clutch and spun the tires as we took off like a rocket ship.

I told her "That is probably the only time ever where you can do something like that in front of a cop and not get busted!" It was funny.

v6,
boNes


"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
#4504584 - 01/22/20 02:29 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I love manuals. I hate automatics.

Every car I've owned since I was 16 was a manual except for one and only one car, which was a POS. My current car is a manual. It is my 3rd Civic. When I bought it though, I was surprised because Honda had it listed as being available in manual in their catalog...yet I had to have it special ordered and built and delivered to the dealer to get it. This was the first time I've had to wait for delivery. I had to wait something like 5 weeks (they gave me a Honda Element as a loaner). This was my first real indication that manuals were going to the wayside. The dealer said that the automatic transmissions were getting so well designed that they actually had slightly better fuel mileage than manuals.

But anyway, I love manuals. I don't have a problem with them in traffic. I drive in Chicago traffic all the time (the intersection of 290/294/88, known as the "Hillside Strangler" was rated in the top 3 for worse traffic tieups, and ranked ahead of the Bay Bridge) and don't mind it at all. On fact, I enjoy it, and I'm so used to it, I'm not even conscious of my shifting. I read here alot of people don't like to drive sticks in traffic because they don't like to downshift and engine brake. To be honest, I never do either. If I need to slow down, I throw her in neutral and coast down/bleed energy and/or use the brake. I've tried downshifting and engine braking before and the car lurches forward and makes an obnoxious noise and you get the same results--I feel like it's inelegant. Neutral and braking is much more smooth. Plus I'd rather spend money to replace the brakes than the clutch and transmission should it come to it--but I've never lost a clutch or transmission to that in 32 years of driving a stick.

But I gotta tell you what I love about it is not only the mileage, but most of all the control I get. I have acceleration on demand, without any delays. And in Chicago winters, well, if it wasn't for a manual transmission where I can disconnect the transmission from the wheels and dump all that torque when I hit a patch of black ice--well it has saved my butt a bunch of times. Being able to shift into a higher gear than is needed also helps prevent my tires from spinning as fast and losing control when trying to drive through snow patches.

Plus it's also fun. With all the simming and piloting I do, it's nice to feel a stick in my hand and I often make a turn and can see the HUD symbology in my head as I pull behind another car, haha.

I sometimes do have to take my left foot and put it closer to my seat with the knee up when I drive an automatic so I don't hit a brake pedal that I thought was a clutch. Other than that I can still drive an automatic fine. I just never really understood really why they have a tach in automatics since what does the driver care about RPMs when the car shifts for them? It makes me feel like automatic drivers are stick shifter wannabes. Which leads me to why I absolutely hate paddle shifters. Why get an automatic if you want to shift gears? Just get a manual then and stop pretending!

I have taught people how to drive a stick before, some in as little as no more than 10 minutes. I'm a bit unorthodox about it though. I may take a few minutes to explain the principle...clutch in, 1st gear, bring the clutch up slow, add a little gas--but that's it. We do a few laps in a parking lot then the real fun begins. I take them to a hill and have them start the car on the uphill and drive it up the hill. They learn REAL fast how to not stall in this case. To me, the worst thing you can do in a stick is stall out while in the middle of heavy traffic. You have to make sure you don't roll back and hit a car, or get the car started again before someone hits you or gets road rage. You have to be able to recover and restart the car under stress and get moving ASAP. And this takes great clutchwork and the ability to perform under stress. Remember in "Glory" when the one guy was a good shot, and Col Gould knew that yeah that's great when you're casually shooting, but how about when someone is firing off a gun in your ear and screaming at you? Or when Tom Cruise was shooting at the Japanese soldier on the range and yelling "SHOOT ME!"? Same idea. Learning under stress gets you ready for the real thing.

So I put them on a hill. They start the car, and try to get up the hill. Of course they stall right off the bat, then I immediately start yelling "Get the car started, get it going! the guy behind you is honking and yelling! You're gonna roll back and hit him! Get it started GET IT GOING GO GO GO! HEre come another car, it's gonna hit you because you're stuck in the intersection and he doesn't see you move it move it MOVE IT!"

Usually, by the third time, they have it downpat no problem. Then I give them their wings, haha.

Yeah, I'm a jerk, but they thank me afterwards.

Oh, funny story. My wife was born and raised in Poland but she left there before she really got a chance to learn to drive there. So she doesn't really remember how to drive a stick so I taught her. We were at a stop sign on a local street and I didn't need to do the stress test because a cop pulled up behind us waiting for us to go. That was stress enough. She kept stalling and she was freaking out. I didn't want the cop to get annoyed so I jumped out of the car and ran to his (which in retrospect was probably a stupid idea, but I had on my mind to explain what was going on first and foremost). When I got there he was sitting there cracking up. I said, "Sorry, I'm teaching her stick" and he just kept laughing and said, "It's alright I'm in no rush." So I got back in my car and my wife get the car moving, but in her stress, she popped the clutch and spun the tires as we took off like a rocket ship.

I told her "That is probably the only time ever where you can do something like that in front of a cop and not get busted!" It was funny.

v6,
boNes


"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
#4504586 - 01/22/20 02:34 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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My first car was an automatic, a '79 Monte Carlo, but all since have been sticks. A Mustang currently.

For me the reasons are many. I think a manual is lighter, faster, more reliable, less expensive, requires less maintenance and is way more fun to drive. The driver has more control over the car and the brakes last longer. When I am required to drive an automatic I instinctively reach for it or go to push the non-existent clutch.. And then do it again on the next stop. Where's the #%&*$# gear shift?!

Are you guys really heel-toeing in a passenger car? Doing some trail braking on the way to the market are we?


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4504588 - 01/22/20 02:34 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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My last standard car was my MX5/Miata which I sold 3 years ago when I got my XK8. My wife has terrible arthritis in her left knee so the daily driver must be auto. The only time I drive a standard now is on semi-annual trips to the UK. You never forget IMO


Archie Smythe

carpe diem
#4504595 - 01/22/20 02:58 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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1993 Honda Accord. 5 speed manual trans 4cyl. engine. It is the original engine and transmission. Just had my 4th clutch put in it and the front ball joints and upper control arms replaced. This is my daily driver and it has well over 500,000 miles. The odometer stopped working over 5 years ago with 465,000+ still showing on it. Best car I have ever owned and I love driving a stick. I will drive it until the wheels fall off. yep

S!Blade<><

Last edited by Blade_Meister; 01/22/20 06:43 PM.
#4504598 - 01/22/20 03:34 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Both cars I've ever owned were manual. Anytime I drive an automatic, I get caught looking for that "phantom clutch." Problem is, on an automatic, that brake pedal is much wider so I clip it as I'm first starting out and think I should be going into second.

#4504606 - 01/22/20 03:58 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: Blade_Meister]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_Meister
1993 Honda Accord. 5 speed manual trans 4cyl. engine. It is the original engine and transmission. Just had my 4th clutch put in it and the front ball joints and upper control arms replaced. This is my daily driver and it has well over 5000,000 miles. The odometer stopped working over 5 years ago with 465,000+ still showing on it. Best car I have ever owned and I love driving a stick. I will drive it until the wheels fall off. yep

S!Blade<><


500k! Wow! All of my Civcs racked up over 250,000 in the space of 8 years before I got a new one. My current one has 168000 after 8 years...so I'm not driving it as much as I used to, so I expect her to last for a loooong time (unless she rusts out first).

v6,
boNes


"Also, I would prefer a back seater over the extra gas any day. I would have 80 pounds of flesh to eat and a pair of glasses to start a fire." --F/A-18 Hornet pilot
#4504611 - 01/22/20 04:10 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Oh yeah DBond. On downshifts I like to slip my foot over from the brake to the gas while downshifting, typically when preparing for a turn. I once did exactly that when I realised I needed to turn into a car park and I was perhaps a bit too keen because my manoeuvre earned me the nickname of Stirling Moss, bestowed upon me by one of my passengers on the occasion.

When done perfectly, the transition between gears is so smooth, and the turning manoeuvre itself should also be smooth. When testing new cars I always check the pedals and how the brake and gas are placed in relation to each other.

It's not proper trail-braking though, at most a bit of weight management putting the weight on the front axle at the right moment.

I do suspect that with non-performance cars, brake balance is set to something like 40-60 at least, to ensure that most breaking is done by the rear wheels thus making it virtually impossible to proper trail-brake.

I don't use it much in a straight line just reducing speed. Coming up to red lights I just get off the gas, roll of a bit of speed and take it down a gear, engine braking until the revs are about right for another downshift. Then I repeat as required. Often, the red light has turned into green by the time I arrive at the crossing. Smooth and economical. With modern gearboxes there is really no need to match revs with the gas.


Jens C. Lindblad


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#4504618 - 01/22/20 04:28 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I wish I had a friend that even knew who Stirling Moss was.

30+ years now driving a stick and never even thought about heel-toeing it around town.

Trailbraking though, that's a different thing now isn't it? Balance is the key to proper cornering smile

Ya know another great thing about driving a manual is so many cannot do it, it's almost a mystical thing these days. I see it when I drive my son's friends around. Most are quite fascinated that a car can be operated in such an odd manner.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4504619 - 01/22/20 04:30 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: bones]  
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Originally Posted by bones
I love manuals. But anyway, I love manuals. I don't have a problem with them in traffic. I drive in Chicago traffic all the time (the intersection of 290/294/88, known as the "Hillside Strangler" was rated in the top 3 for worse traffic tieups, and ranked ahead of the Bay Bridge) and don't mind it at all. On fact, I enjoy it, and I'm so used to it, I'm not even conscious of my shifting. I read here alot of people don't like to drive sticks in traffic because they don't like to downshift and engine brake. To be honest, I never do either. If I need to slow down, I throw her in neutral and coast down/bleed energy and/or use the brake. I've tried downshifting and engine braking before and the car lurches forward and makes an obnoxious noise and you get the same results--I feel like it's inelegant. Neutral and braking is much more smooth. Plus I'd rather spend money to replace the brakes than the clutch and transmission should it come to it--but I've never lost a clutch or transmission to that in 32 years of driving a stick.

I've always done the neutral+braking too, for the same reasons. It seems to me that unless you're on a track or something and trying to maximize performance, that just works better.

Originally Posted by bones
But I gotta tell you what I love about it is not only the mileage, but most of all the control I get. I have acceleration on demand, without any delays. And in Chicago winters, well, if it wasn't for a manual transmission where I can disconnect the transmission from the wheels and dump all that torque when I hit a patch of black ice--well it has saved my butt a bunch of times. Being able to shift into a higher gear than is needed also helps prevent my tires from spinning as fast and losing control when trying to drive through snow patches.

To me, this is the biggest reason to have a manual. That immediate control is not something that can be duplicated on an auto.

Originally Posted by bones
I sometimes do have to take my left foot and put it closer to my seat with the knee up when I drive an automatic so I don't hit a brake pedal that I thought was a clutch. Other than that I can still drive an automatic fine. I just never really understood really why they have a tach in automatics since what does the driver care about RPMs when the car shifts for them? It makes me feel like automatic drivers are stick shifter wannabes. Which leads me to why I absolutely hate paddle shifters. Why get an automatic if you want to shift gears? Just get a manual then and stop pretending!

Shifting gears manually in an auto can be useful. As I mentioned before, when I want to pick up some speed, it's faster to downshift with the paddles first, then accelerate, just like you would with a manual. Same with driving in a sporty situation - you can lock it in a gear with paddles, and keep it in whatever gear you think works best as you're coming out of a corner or whatever, so you have very similar control, just not using a clutch. For that, you also need to have a tach, because you choose to shift it based on the same criteria that you would in a manual.


Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

http://www.techflyer.net

#4504634 - 01/22/20 05:26 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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If you are on a downhill, just ride the clutch.

#4504645 - 01/22/20 06:14 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Another great benefit, to driving a manual around where I live, is nobody can drive one. This means it probably wont get stolen, and you never have to loan it out.

#4504647 - 01/22/20 06:18 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Yeah good point.

"Hey, mind if I borrow your car?"

"Sure, no probs, it's a stick"

"Err, thanks anyway, I'll just ask Bob over there"

*satisfied grin*


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4504653 - 01/22/20 07:51 PM Re: Anyone still driving a manual transmission car [Re: oldgrognard]  
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I have two automatics, one manual and one with the Formula1 racing transmission which is a 6 speed manual with no clutch on the floor. The paddle shifting electro-hydraulically operates the clutch. It has a normal and a sport setting. Normal allows for softer and slower shifts while the sport mode shifts fast and firm. Much faster than any human could make the shift. The computer registers how you are driving and will do the rev matching on both up and down shifts. Pulling both paddles shifts into neutral. Took about an hour to get the proper feel and process down correctly, but once you have it down it is superb. If you have never driven one, make it a point to do so. All the benefits and cool of a stick without some of the drawbacks. You can tell it is a manual as the revs climb and you shift with all the wonderful engine note changes. And the engine burble on downshifting is really pleasing. People will turn and look at it.

One problem I have switching between the different cars I fumble with things. OK, how do you start this one ? Then driving the automatics I’m dancing my feet trying to search for the clutch and foot lifting to match revs. Then getting into the F1 I will forget to shift and will set that engine howling as I approach the7,800 redline or I’ll get distracted and lug the engine to near stall. Takes a little bit for brain to reestablish what I’m driving.

And all the other minor things. Which side is the gas fill on, does this one have a gas flap release and where is it, which way does the stalk move for a single windshield swipe, etc.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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by Ajay. 02/19/20 12:35 PM
Just a little feel good flying thing
by Nixer. 02/18/20 12:37 AM
Now, This is Cool (Even if it WAS a Dog)
by vonBaur. 02/18/20 12:37 AM
HITMAN 2, et al
by DBond. 02/17/20 01:52 PM
I didn't know this. Women Top Guns.
by NoFlyBoy. 02/17/20 03:46 AM
Betelgeuse
by Red2112. 02/16/20 11:35 PM
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