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#4495700 - 11/02/19 01:38 PM Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor?  
Joined: Dec 2010
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Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Bavaria, near Munich
Hello,

at the moment I'm fiddeling arround to get the instruments and MFD's of all simulations, I want to use with my pit, extracted to the three monitors used for the whole instrumentation in the homepit.

This is really a challenge and I don't know if I can get it all running. I want to use EECH Allmods, Falcon BMS, DCS World and FSX with my universal pit.

Why so much? Cause I love all kind of miltary aircraft and I also want to be able to fly many of them in my homecockpit. I never liked the idea of making such a complex work, only to use it with one simulation and even one type of aircraft in this simulation. So I decided to not built an exact copy of an aircraft and not to go to deep in the systems, but have the option to fly different types of aircraft.

I also dropped the idea now of having functional 7-segment displays for things like the chaff/flare indicator or the radio-frequencies for most of the simulations accept FSX. In FSX this is not a big deal with an Arduino Mega and the use of an interface software called MobiFlight to make a functional radio. For the rest of the simulations it's not that easy and so I decided to leave this option in those sims.

In FSX I have the option to use three programs besides MobiFlight, which I only use for the radios. They are FSDisplays, Simplugins and Air Manager 3. Which one fits the best, I couldn't say at the moment, but I think FSDisplays would be the best, cause it's using the gauges and MFD's from inside the FSX and extracts them two external monitors. The other programms use their own seperate instruments for displaying them to the external monitors, and this is a problem if you want to fly non standard aircraft like miltary jets and helos in FSX, which make use of special gauges and MFD's.

The next simulation is Falcon BMS, which is in case of building a hompit, also very comfortable. Here you can use programms like F4ToPokeys and F4ToSerial for connecting Pokeys- or Arduinocards to the simulation for in- and output. There is also a way to extract instruments to external displays with the use of YAME, Lightnings MFD extractor or even a built in solution.

DCS World is another kind of thing and what I think really uncomfortable and difficult to handle. Here you have to use complex lua-scripts to get instrumentation extracted to external monitors. I also did not know at the moment if it is possible to seperately extract steam gauges to a monitor and resize and adjust them to fit behind a panel-bezel. What I read until know it's not a problem to extract modules, like a UFC, a RWR or the MFD's, but for the seperate gauges I haven't found anything real significant at the moment. There is a project called SDA/Ikarus which looks promising, but I have to dig further in that. The Project Helios seems not to be the solution for my use.

And now after a lot of chattiness winkngrin we come to the point of what I asked. Is there any way to get the steam gauges of EECH Allmods extracted to an external monitor? I have seen that Javelin has done a really nice work for extracting the MFD's to external displays, but is something like this possible for the gauges, too? EECH Allmods is my favorite simulator, cause I'm mostly a rotorhead biggrin. I also like the other miltary aircraft for sure, but the helicopters were allways my favorites.

At the moment there isn't any other simulation out there to fly really interessting choppers like the Apache, the Cobra, the Kiowa or the russian Havoc and the Hokum. DCS is really nice and the new modules for fighter jets are awesome, but in case of attack-helicopters, DCS looks really disappointing at the moment. There are a few modules announced that are interesting like the OH-58D, the MI-24P (sadly the version with the fixed gun) and an AH-1F cobra (my alltime favorite), but as we all know modules in DCS always last endless before they see the light of day.

It's very unlikely we will see an Apache (and if maybe only an A-version, no Longbow) or a Havoc before the next 5 years or so. So if you are a chopper-junkie EECH-Allmods is the way to go! But it's not easy for homecockpit building, so I hope we could make some improvements too it in the future. The graphics maybe aged a bit, but it's a solid attack-chopper sim with a lot of detail and in my opinion the only one we have for the next 5-10 years or so.

Cheers Viper

Last edited by Viper1970; 11/02/19 02:14 PM.

Main System: Ryzen 9 3900XT / soon RX 6800XT or RTX3080 / soon HP Reverb G2

Second System: Ryzen 5 2600X / RTX 2060

Retro System: Athlon X2 3000Mhz / GeForce AGP 6800 GT / Diamond Monster 3D II 12MB SLI
#4495728 - 11/02/19 04:34 PM Re: Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 287
Javelin Offline
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Javelin  Offline
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Posts: 287
Idaho Falls, Idaho USA
Hi Viper, Yes there is a way. We just have to create an MFD option with steam gauges. Some of the Russian MFD's are all gauges. I added a more modern MFD with all of the gauge data onto the Mi-24, but you won't see it until you export the MFD's which is probably why you haven't seen it. I think all of the helicopters now have something similar to this to choose from. Is this good enough or are you dead set on steam punk gauges? It's more difficult to do the old style gauges. I have done it, for the Engine status gauges on the Mi-28.

After checking, the Apache-A and the generic cockpit doesn't have the option, not sure why.

Attached Files IMG_2.jpg
Last edited by Javelin; 11/02/19 05:43 PM.
#4495783 - 11/02/19 10:38 PM Re: Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 781
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 781
Bavaria, near Munich
Hi Javelin,

that's looks really good. For the older helicopter separate steam gauges would also be nice. Don't know how other cockpit builders made the analog gauges, but I set a TFT behind a bezel which has holes were the gauges should be. In FSX or BMS for example I'm able to extract the gauge to that TFT an can adjust the size and the position to fit that hole.

For modern choppers the MFD solution could be the better choice. They nearly have no old fashioned steam gauges anymore.

I also considered to make a 3D model of an MI-35 cockpit if I'm finished with the MI-28N. There are many parts they both share, so I can use a lot of stuff I already made for the MI-28N.


Main System: Ryzen 9 3900XT / soon RX 6800XT or RTX3080 / soon HP Reverb G2

Second System: Ryzen 5 2600X / RTX 2060

Retro System: Athlon X2 3000Mhz / GeForce AGP 6800 GT / Diamond Monster 3D II 12MB SLI
#4495848 - 11/03/19 03:37 PM Re: Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 287
Javelin Offline
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Javelin  Offline
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Idaho Falls, Idaho USA
Hi Viper,
The commserver utility exports all of the data values you would need, look in the attached values.cpp file. I've never actually used this utility, but someone on here has. I modified it to add in the number of flares & chaff you have left.

I only use the exported MFD's myself, I have a very simple cockpit.

Attached Files
Values.txt (89 downloads)
Last edited by Javelin; 11/03/19 03:39 PM.
#4495917 - 11/04/19 09:05 AM Re: Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
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Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 781
Bavaria, near Munich
Ughh, Code! hahaha

Ok, I've seen that I will not come arround to learn some basic coding. It's the same for DCS World and it's lua-scripts.

Would be nice to be able to use the gauges too in the homepit with EECH. Especially for hompit builders EECH could be the holy grail, cause it's code is available.

I ever aked me why not more guys come to EECH? It's the only attack helicopter sim at the moment we have and if you look at Falcon BMS and what they done to the old Falcon 4.0, what could be possible with EECH!?! All we need is a greater community with some additional guys who want to improve EECH Allmods, but it looks like no one is really interested in helicopters. sigh

We have two big modern military cockpit builder communities predominantly for fighter jets. One is the BMS community the other is DCS World, and if you look what all the guys are building, it's always the same. It's an F-16, sometimes an A-10 and now some guys are making an F/A-18. If you take a look at the attack helicopters, AndyB and guy from germany which built a KA-50, are the only active ones I know, building a full size attack helicopter cockpit. Some others are arround doing a Huey, but that's no real attack helicopter, also you can fly it in DCS.

Would be nice to have some more rotorheads here, building a homepit! With EECH we have a real good platform for it and eyecandy graphics aren't the most important thing for a good simulator. Look at Falcon BMS and what they have done to it. I think if more guys would work at EECH, we could do something similar. Not at once, but over the years, like the BMS community did.

Last edited by Viper1970; 11/04/19 09:16 AM.

Main System: Ryzen 9 3900XT / soon RX 6800XT or RTX3080 / soon HP Reverb G2

Second System: Ryzen 5 2600X / RTX 2060

Retro System: Athlon X2 3000Mhz / GeForce AGP 6800 GT / Diamond Monster 3D II 12MB SLI
#4495925 - 11/04/19 10:12 AM Re: Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 781
Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 781
Bavaria, near Munich
There is also this childish competitiveness between the communities, I can tell you. As I'm the only one who is building a universal homepit, I have to talk to several people in the different communities and you always have to pay attention to what you say about other simulations, or you get no real answers.

Sometimes all you get is disapproval if you tell that you would like to use your homepit with different simulators. You must be an Viper, Warthog, Hornet or even airliner guy to get any kind of good assistance. Mostly all you get is incomprehension about your project. There must be everthing at the real place in the real size and even the most useless systems must be functional, or it is no real homepit.

I don't understand this attitude! I'm also not the guy who is sitting in his homepit, wearing a flight suit or a captains uniform. I just want to have fun, it's a hobby not a job. This doesn't mean it shouldn't be realistic as possible, but not to the last nut and bolt. I'm no fighter pilot, who is doing his training lessons at home! Look at the old Jane's simulations and you know what I mean. They were realistic for those days they were made but not this kind of extremely overhyped realism. Today you have only the option to choose between something like BMS or DCS, you have to learn half a year only to fly one type of aircraft and waiting years for a new module cause of it's complexity, or fly arcade shooter sims like Ace Combat, which have nothing to do with real flight simulation.

I want to fly an F-14 and the next day a Huey or even an F-4U Corsair. That would be no problem, if the communties would work a bit closer together and being open for other types of simulators too. I think it could really be possible to make a universal software-interface which could extract the instrument's and the MFD's from many of simulations we have at the moment, to external displays without being a coder. Something similar for BMS, DCS, FSX and even Strike Fighters Project 2 has been done for an extremly expensive cockpit hardware, but the project seems to be down.

If there would be such one universal piece of software reading the instrument outputs of BMS, DCS, EECH, IL-2, FSX (P3D) and X-Plane and translate them to external monitors for display , that's all we need! Inputs could be made via DirectX or simple keyboard emulation. Violla, you are ready to built a universal pit. Not an exact replica of any special aircraft, but a pit with functional gauges, MFD's, switches and buttons and a HOTAS system. Enough realism for most guys and also affordable.

There is for sure a special software for every of those simulations available, or a coding way to do so, but not one single solution for most of them. In terms of inputs we have DirectX or simple keyboard emulation, but nothing for the displays. Think about what kind of rubbish it would be if every simulation needs it own kind of driver to get a joystick running. This is what we have it at the moment to get some intruments displayed on an external monitor. And VR will never be a solution in the next years for any kind of more complex flight simulation. You have to have the option to use real switches, dials and buttons for a relatively realistic simulation.

But the problem isn't to get such a piece of software together, it's the stubbornness of the different communities not willing to look beyond their own noses.

Last edited by Viper1970; 11/04/19 10:38 AM.

Main System: Ryzen 9 3900XT / soon RX 6800XT or RTX3080 / soon HP Reverb G2

Second System: Ryzen 5 2600X / RTX 2060

Retro System: Athlon X2 3000Mhz / GeForce AGP 6800 GT / Diamond Monster 3D II 12MB SLI
#4503455 - 01/12/20 11:27 AM Re: Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 410
GlynD Offline
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GlynD  Offline
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Shropshire UK
Hi Viper, if you PM me your email address I can email you a couple of standalone gauges I built in Visual Basic 6, some years ago. Should still work.

You can either run them on a PC with multiple monitors or on a networked PC. No use for a PC with a single display though.

Sorry for the late reply been away from this sim for a while. If someone else would find them useful if a moderator for the EECH website sends me their email address I can email them the files to pop on EECH Central...

Cheers
Glyn

#4503929 - 01/16/20 01:06 PM Re: Any chance to get gauges two a second monitor? [Re: Viper1970]  
Joined: Dec 2010
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Viper1970 Offline
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Viper1970  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 781
Bavaria, near Munich
Hello GlynD,

welcome abord biggrin

I will sent you my email adress via PM. Sadly I hadn't much time for my hobby the last half year. I still hope things will get better now and have also planed to get a lot of my homepit finished this year, but who knows? sigh

I also wanted to make a new cockpit for the MI-28 in EECH, but hadn't much time the last months. I really hope that I'm now able to come back to one of my favorite things in life.

I've read some of your post and you talked about setting up a second keyboard to the pc for using it with different stations (pilot / gunner). There was an excellent program called "HID-macros" which also could differ between the USB-devices you connected to the PC. This means you could use a number of simple keyboards and/or numpads and program different macros to them and the pc can differ between them and only uses the selected numpad with its own macro you programmed to it. I have made my overheadpanel in my homepit functional with the use of HID-Macros and a bunch of simple numpads. I just made new labels to the keys for the macros I programmed to them.

Don't know how it is running under Windows 10 but with Windows 7 64Bit it runs perferctly.

P.S: Autohotkey can do similar things, but I always liked HID-macros more, cause it's a lot simpler.


Last edited by Viper1970; 01/16/20 01:08 PM.

Main System: Ryzen 9 3900XT / soon RX 6800XT or RTX3080 / soon HP Reverb G2

Second System: Ryzen 5 2600X / RTX 2060

Retro System: Athlon X2 3000Mhz / GeForce AGP 6800 GT / Diamond Monster 3D II 12MB SLI

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