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#4503135 - 01/08/20 08:13 PM P47 throttle quadrant.  
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Madkite Offline
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Hi helpful people.

I'm looking to start to 3d model a P47 throttle quadrant to go with the joystick project.

Have managed to collect loads of photos. Not sure which model I will go for yet. But the main body is the same for all but the N I think. Just handle changes.

So the problem is I am have nothing to scale the photos against. And i cant find any drawings or pictures giving any dimension. Or even better an exploded diagram showing the mechanics of how the tension handle works.

And dimensions or information anybody has would be super useful. Especially on the mechanics.

Thanks in advance.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4503142 - 01/08/20 09:22 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Last edited by Sokol1; 01/08/20 09:25 PM.
#4503153 - 01/08/20 11:57 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Heres all I have.

Attached Files airplane-throttle-quadrant-parts_1_a27c6a2e3da7c95b0d527_002.jpgairplane-throttle-quadrant-parts_1_a27c6a2e3da7c95b0d527_003.jpgairplane-throttle-quadrant-parts_1_a27c6a2e3da7c95b0d527_004.jpgairplane-throttle-quadrant-parts_1_a27c6a2e3da7c95b0d527430e.jpg
#4503160 - 01/09/20 04:51 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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found a grate site for ww2 American and some spit stuff. $5 to get in and pay to download. but can print and you can select print to pdf.

https://aircorpslibrary.com/

#4503161 - 01/09/20 04:52 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Oh wow thanks. Had not loaded posts.

#4503384 - 01/11/20 11:08 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Work in progress.

Attached Files Mixture plate v7.jpg
#4503385 - 01/11/20 11:18 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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#4503386 - 01/11/20 11:20 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Original had all the writing painted. But that seems way to difficult.

Can be engraved and filled easier.

#4503526 - 01/12/20 10:51 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Have you thought of photoetching?Great start to it though smile

#4504004 - 01/17/20 06:08 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Work is coming along when I get time.

Looking at CNC routers but quite an array to choose from.

Any of you have any recommendations? Something like a 3040 or 6040, though that may be getting a bit big for my shop. Would have to make the bench a little wider for 6040. But it does give the option of routing guitar bodies! band

Found this one. It has a smaller build aria but looks like it has a much stronger construction than most cheep ones, and its got supported slide rods and sd card printing. Cant find any real info in it though. Or any reviews of anyone who has one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-3-Axi...3102763?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

And yes, by the time I have all this equipment I could have probably bought a real P47 throttle. But I have a sickness for tools and cad and things.

If I make it to the end of this project would people be interested in replica late K14 gun sight handle P47 throttles? I have the plans for the switch and everything so am going to make the handle as original and functional making the witch and contacts and twisty handle everything.

Though i cant decide if the handle should be an axis or just a double switch with some kind of return.

Attached Files Mixture_plate_2020-Jan-17_05-55-41AM-000_CustomizedView8605369777.pngMixture_plate_2020-Jan-17_05-55-21AM-000_CustomizedView29612727706.png
Last edited by Madkite; 01/17/20 06:08 AM.
#4504011 - 01/17/20 08:44 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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I kept my P51 throttle all mechanical so people can add their own electronics to the ends of pushrods at the front of their pits for easy access.The K14 gunsight was adjusted via bowden cables (bike brake cables) in real life so no need to reinvent the wheel.
Most small desktop CNC engravers are good for small engraving jobs or jobs with small side loads..For most knobs I 3D print them and use a lathe for machining jobs.

#4504102 - 01/17/20 11:11 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Yes I have the plans for the cable joint. And i used to make cables like that in my previous job. It just if I want it to be a switch or axis. I think a 2 position switch will be better. Not sure how it actually interacted with K14 sight.

Was it like a smooth control or a switch like the cowl flap control?

Plus I think most games that model it have it as a switch type thing . Not a slider control.

#4504111 - 01/18/20 12:17 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Rotary Pot on the K14 would work.Theres a guy on DCS Forums whos doing an Ez42 gyro Gunsight using an Arduino.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132743&page=12

#4504202 - 01/18/20 10:51 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Well its all going to be turned milled and cut out of metal as original as possible.

So the water injection switch you push in and slide. But this means its always on. Not sure hoe sims will handle that but will cross that bridge when I get there.

Originality is the thing I'm after. The controls are an after thought really. Will do what works best in IL2 when i look in to it.

Never actually play for all the time I spend doing this stuff.

#4504238 - 01/19/20 06:29 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Originally Posted by Madkite


So the water injection switch you push in and slide. But this means its always on. Not sure hoe sims will handle that but will cross that bridge when I get there.

Originality is the thing I'm after. The controls are an after thought really. Will do what works best in IL2 when i look in to it.


Games - specially IL-2 Bo'X' that use momentary press for all commands (exception Flaps and Landing Gear) - suposedly for be friendly for "casual new gamers", since this game series start as a "combat flight game", not "combat flight simulator" , but a switch always ON don't cause issue, don't send repeatedly commands.

But are another issue in this game, the game expect that you press a key/button or turn a switch for turn Water Injection ON and again for turn Water Injection OFF, awkward with a ON-OFF, switch resulting in unrealistic operation (Turn ON for start, turn ON again for stop).

So for deal with this limitation (again due the game simple commands approach for "new players) need use a keymapper software, e.g. Joystick Gremlin that will send a momentary command
when switch is turned OF and another momentary command when the switch is turned OFF, mimic real life switch.

An option use a optocoupler circuit between switch and controller for send only the momentary command, drawback is that optocoupler require external 5V source.

Other option is use an Arduino with Lynx CUBE firmware as USB controller for you throttle quadrant.
This firmware deal with this games issue, a ON-OFF switch will only send a momentary command in the change state for OF and OFF positions.
http://lynx.dk/cub-firmware/

Arduino PRO Micro +MMjoy2 firmware (by MegaMozg, VirPil electronics developer) is other option.

The popular USB Controller L.Bondar BU0836A will require the use of keymapper sofware, since don't deal with OFF state of toggle switches.


Last edited by Sokol1; 01/19/20 06:32 PM.
#4504286 - 01/20/20 05:15 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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That an interesting program.

Its a bridge I will cross when I get there. May be able to do it with relays and timer. lol.


Work is progressing on design. Going to be a while before I have saved for router though.

#4504289 - 01/20/20 07:12 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Looking good.

Attached Files Mixture_plate_2020-Jan-20_07-07-52AM-000_CustomizedView5370126423.pngMixture_plate_2020-Jan-20_07-08-51AM-000_CustomizedView8603540001.pngMixture_plate_2020-Jan-20_07-10-43AM-000_CustomizedView30420352068.png
#4504294 - 01/20/20 09:01 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Very,very nice smile

#4504350 - 01/20/20 07:19 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Nice drawing skills, very good.

About the water injection switch, a simplification, avoiding use external software or additional circuit is forget how this work IRL
and adapt for how the games want the command, using a (MON)-OFF-(MOM) or (MON)-OFF switch
that work for games like momentary press a key or button.

Drawback, you loose the tactile and visual feedback of switch status (if is ON or OFF). C'est la vie!.

An circuit with optocoupler (H11AA2), the 100 uF capacitor give a 1/2 second pulse (button pressed). Scheme show wired in BU0836 6x6 matrix.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Sokol1; 01/20/20 07:29 PM.
#4504358 - 01/20/20 09:52 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Been looking at the switch and there is another way I think that a lot more practical.

The switch is pushed down to make contact. Then is rocked over so its held down by the spherical cap.

So it has constant contact, the two bronze contacts have to be wide so it keep contact through the whole travel arc.

So I can either cut away part of the contacts so when its rocked over it loses contact. Or insulate half of them. Then when its rocked in and over and back and pops up it will make momentary contact during each actuation either way.

Will draw up as original and then draw the modified one.

No electronic needed then.

#4504359 - 01/20/20 10:14 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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If anyone want a part drawn up in 3D then PM me.

As long as you have dimensions and preferably a plan. Photos for any detail.

Currently have access to loads of original drawings for some american WW2 aircraft. B17, 24, 25 and 29. Fu4, F6F and F8F, P38, 39, 40, 47, 51, 61. Spitfire.

Would just want a little pocket money for single parts. Depends on complexity of course. Some have more than others with the plans, but loads on knobs and levers and thing like that for cockpits. Gun sight mounts and bits as well. Instrument panels etc.

As long as they made it themselves.

This throttle is more tricky as it was bought in, then had their bits added. So no plans of its actual internals. But there is for the handle and other bits.

The spitfire on there has complete plans for every little part. But I'm not doing that; yet.

Is annoying though. There are plans for the throttle stop but I'm guessing its a really late one. Its all pressed tin. All the ones in every photo I can find look like cast ally. But I can find no drawings.

It also electrically connects where that bolts on but I'm not sure how they got the wire from the lever in to that. The throttle lever is 3 plates so it has a hole up it to put the wire. Think the plates may be spot welded together. But no idea where they brought the wire out.

I'm making that bit up for now unless I can find some good photos or info.

#4504363 - 01/20/20 10:43 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Spitfires are very,very complex..Lot of small parts that go together...There are approx 15,000 drawings available for the Spitfire in the Uk and its still not all of them.. pitchafit
When I did the P51 throttle I didnt have all the drawings required.I had to use photos and guesswork to get it all to work properly.Some parts I had to rework up to 5 times before they fitted and worked.

Attached Files IMG_2378a.jpg
#4504364 - 01/20/20 10:55 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Yes it only has a particular model.

But looked it up. The throttle is all there for that model. Ever little detail.

Its far worse to make as looks like some real heavy gauge steel pressings that you can't fabricate easily.

It all simple straight bends of flat sheet in this.

The only thing I have 0 chance if getting it the 6 prong tension spring. And if you have ever played with making springs, you will run a mile.

But can work round that so it has a normal spring worked by the friction knob, as there is lots of room in the tube to fit some stuff.

Funnily cant find much on P51 plans. Which is odd given how popular it is.

That looks really nice.

#4504402 - 01/21/20 08:25 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Quote
The only thing I have 0 chance if getting it the 6 prong tension spring. And if you have ever played with making springs, you will run a mile.

The P51 uses a similar system to friction tighten the levers.I made up a template in CAD,cut it out and glued it to a piece of steel.Drill the hole centres for each slot and use a grinder or bandsaw to cut them out.Clean up then form by using a big ball peen hammer into a sandbag..

Attached Files IMG_9038.jpg
#4504667 - 01/22/20 10:49 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Done my fair share of work with spring steel sheet.

Would rather design round that bit to use a normal spring. Is much easier to get the correct tension.

Its odd. They put shims either side where the throttle handle clamps to the lever. I can see no reason why at all. Making the slot thinner would have been much easier and less fiddly.

And some of the dimensions don't match. Normal for old drawings. The K14 handle has a bore of 1.100". But the mount for it is 0.925". It lists not tube or anything between in any assembly. And with the pin that retinas it it would make no scene to have one. None of it would fit if not altered to be the right size and wobble all over the place.

Still its looking good. The switch is taking some work to draw up.

Attached Files P47_throttle_2020-Jan-22_10-36-35PM-000_CustomizedView11405953570.png
#4504676 - 01/22/20 11:25 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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In IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series BoBp P-47 are the option for interlock throttle and supercharger levers, don't worth design the piece that mechanically do this linkage?

The mechanical linkage is the "ears" under "P" lever in this pictures:

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/throttle_quadrant_and_switch_box-jpg.131099/
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/...t_1_79c236da9fbe010a6450305150ff5186.jpg

#4504712 - 01/23/20 09:52 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Quote
The K14 handle has a bore of 1.100". But the mount for it is 0.925". It lists not tube or anything between in any assembly. And with the pin that retinas it it would make no scene to have one. None of it would fit if not altered to be the right size and wobble all over the place.

Still its looking good. The switch is taking some work to draw up.


Heres the K14 handle for the P51..The gap is for the wiring apparently.Shims are to fine tune the feel of the friction element for the handles.

Attached Files oC7ScrT.png
#4504815 - 01/24/20 03:47 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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The mechanical linkage is part of this model. So I will be designing it in.

The P47 handle is completely different mechanism. So I don't see how it can make sense. As originally drawn would make it totally floppy and useless.

Attached Files P47 throttle v3.png
#4504817 - 01/24/20 03:55 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Just found the adaptor tube. Though its not listed in any assembly drawings.

Knew something was up.

#4504821 - 01/24/20 04:48 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Quite happy i found that. It also didn't make scene running aluminium straight on aluminium. Steel tube between is much better.

#4504990 - 01/25/20 11:11 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Keep going,looks great smile

#4505001 - 01/26/20 05:01 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Thanks.

Keeping going.

I actually really enjoy cad. Should have done it as a job. Though sitting on may ass all day would probably mean I would be fatter now than I already am.

Added in the knurling in 3D. That literally took hours to process that cut.

Got to finish the switch now.

Attached Files 3ef5339b-7c2d-416b-b85f-07bc9491cb49.PNG
#4505002 - 01/26/20 05:11 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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While I'm drawing this because I want to and want one.

Seems a shame to then do nothing with the model when its finished. Considering the research detail and work involved.

And there is going to be a while most likely till I can get my router. Let alone get it working. Even if I got one I still need a mega tidy and clear out of workshop before I can do anything.

Is there somewhere people sell these files and things? And what sort of files do data do people want.

Do they want STL files, or a PDF with the plan drawings for every part, or the original fusion 360 file to take the parts from?

I really wouldn't know where to start on that front.

Shapways is one place but most of this is not really a 3D printable thing.

#4505008 - 01/26/20 10:46 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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There are a lot of communities like Grabcad or cgtrader where you can be paid by people to have your designs..All depends what you want to do..If you want to do it as a business its a long process to get ahead.The standard format for CAD files is either Dxf or STL.
Shapeways is good for high quality parts but is getting on the expensive side.Plus the profit margin is slight to keep prices down.
For me the levers I did in aluminium plate using a bandsaw/jigsaw to cut with and files,emery paper to clean up with.
Main casting I did via 3D printing as the knobs and spider cylinders.Front plate I hammerformed and folded sheetmetal.Pins and bushes via a lathe.

#4505038 - 01/26/20 05:36 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Originally Posted by Madkite

And there is going to be a while most likely till I can get my router. Let alone get it working. Even if I got one I still need a mega tidy and clear out of workshop before I can do anything.

Is there somewhere people sell these files and things? And what sort of files do data do people want.

Do they want STL files, or a PDF with the plan drawings for every part, or the original fusion 360 file to take the parts from?

I really wouldn't know where to start on that front.

Shapways is one place but most of this is not really a 3D printable thing.


Yes, are people interested, specially for 3D print - e.g. Il2.sturmovik.com forum.

You can share drawings through Github - what give people choose options for print service of print yourself.

Or if want charge a fee in Shapeways, what limit accessibility, for some countries Shapeways shipping cost make little viable print there.

Or you call sell drawings through Yegi, example: https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-print-m...ess-accurate-f-14-stick-with-electronics



#4505080 - 01/26/20 10:22 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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I'm not looking to do it as a business. (He says now, ask me in 10 year as these things can take on a life of their own.)

Just somewhere to put it so people can download if they want to make one or print bits. And where it may make a little pocket money.

Picks. Water injection switch with cover off and now microphone shroud with M12 thread fro screwing in an off the shelf push button.

Attached Files P47_throttle_2020-Jan-26_10-08-27PM-000_CustomizedView27249227346.pngP47_throttle_2020-Jan-26_10-06-18PM-000_CustomizedView29816912155.png
#4505182 - 01/27/20 09:35 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Lot of flat shapes for manufacturing.Handle looks like most complicated thing..

#4505365 - 01/29/20 03:05 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Handle is complicated.

But there is one bit that's worse. Or not depending.

I have plans for an original version of the throttle stop. But its not the one you see in all the photos. Its a reworking pressed in boxy sheet metal.

Now that one is way more practical to make up one way or another. Can tig weld some joins where I cant stamp in kinks and so on. And I have all the original plans to make it exactly as was.

Now the other is much more pretty. But I will have to half guess it. And its a total nightmare to make even on CNC. You can cut one profile face but it just makes cutting, and holding to cut t the next ever worse until its impossible. Would probably have to end up making jigs to hold it just to make it.

What peoples opinion on the best one to go for?

Attached Files 3538b0bf-1aad-4fb3-8c69-45375e8195fe.PNG
#4505475 - 01/29/20 09:55 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Sheetmetal can be formed with a vice and a hammer around a section of square bar stock....

#4505507 - 01/30/20 05:44 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
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Madkite  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 31
Well I have at first designed the sheet metal one as close to original for what I can actually make.

The other is possible but a nightmare to mill.

Its ugly but it does its job.

Attached Files P47_throttle_2020-Jan-30_05-25-40AM-000_CustomizedView11313160792.png
#4505935 - 02/02/20 11:14 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 31
Madkite Offline
Junior Member
Madkite  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 31
So nearly finished on the cad. Just a few more bits to go and details.

Next the the plans.

Attached Files P47_throttle_2020-Feb-02_10-48-11PM-000_CustomizedView15506627460.png
#4505940 - 02/02/20 11:35 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 31
Madkite Offline
Junior Member
Madkite  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 31
More pics.

Attached Files P47_throttle_2020-Feb-02_11-16-01PM-000_CustomizedView1575315579.pngdce73e26-31c3-440a-88b6-1cd05009c77c.PNG
#4506408 - 02/06/20 11:36 AM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,850
453Raafspitty Offline
Senior Member
453Raafspitty  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,850
Australia,Sandstone Point
Nice..If you want to go bigger...
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.checksix-forums.com%2Fviewforum.php%3Ff%3D286

#4506476 - 02/06/20 10:47 PM Re: P47 throttle quadrant. [Re: Madkite]  
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 31
Madkite Offline
Junior Member
Madkite  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 31
Adding the mount. though it would either have to be 3D printed or cast. No other way to make reasonably. Also adjusted knob angles as the were too far round.

Not sure I will use an original design mount as mine is going to be a desktop version. May make one that style.

Attached Files P47_throttle_2020-Feb-06_10-08-52PM-000_CustomizedView2529962765.png
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