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#4502568 - 01/03/20 06:05 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: Arthonon]  
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Originally Posted by Arthonon

I think the way much of the events in TLJ were handled shows that they tried to almost forget that movie, and RoS is almost a direct sequel to TFA. I can't recall for certain, but I think there are only about 2 fairly major plot points from TLJ that have any impact on RoS, and that's Snoke's death and Luke's death. Other than that, I think you could watch TLJ and then RoS and not feel like you missed anything. That may be why some of the newer characters didn't last long.


This is an absolutely great observation and you are correct about Snoke's death and Luke's death being the only major plot points carried over from TLJ.


TLJ must certainly hold the record for being the highest grossing film ever in which the studio and writers tried to forget about with their subsequent sequel. smile


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#4502569 - 01/03/20 06:19 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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What they did to Luke in TLJ was beyond absurd. And wasting Snoke like that?

The film was written by a focus group of kindergartners.

#4502570 - 01/03/20 06:27 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: vonBaur]  
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Originally Posted by vonBaur
Absolutely, PM. Another reason that it kind of "fit". Still, schmaltz is schmaltz. And like I said, it's a "hero" movie, and they tend to have schmaltz out the ying-yang.


But the heroes in A New Hope and beyond were flawed, weak, and suffered from vices. Han was a criminal scoundrel, Luke was a young boy who hardly knew what he was doing, and Leia was strong willed but simultaneously a prototypical damsel. Obi Wan was aged, but wise and still had some tricks up his sleeve. And Vader, the evil presence, was flawless. This isn't even mentioning Lando, who double crosses everyone, yet later is forgiven. And Yoda the wise master.


Then we go to the new series and what do we get? A female proxy for luke... sort of. A wasted stormtrooper named Finn who deserves so much more but is thrown away for feminism, and Kylo, an angst-ridden temperamental two-year old mastermind? Come on. Who the hell would want to be Kylo?

Folks wanted to be Vader. He was a wicked badass. They also could identify with Han. And Yoda, and Lando, and Luke and Leia and... okay, nobody could identify with a wookie aside from the fat, sweaty guy in Walmart at 2 AM wearing a wife beater exposing his hairy back.

The characters in TOS were timeless. The characters in the new series? Forgettable.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 01/03/20 06:29 PM.
#4502571 - 01/03/20 06:38 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman


The characters in TOS were timeless. The characters in the new series? Forgettable.



This is undeniable in my opinion and the best evidence I have for me personally is that I still find it difficult to remember the names of many of the new characters introduced in the Disney SW films.


I still remember the names of all the characters from the original trilogy with the exception of some of the minor alien characters (ie non-human).


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4502577 - 01/03/20 08:37 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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This is interesting:

https://nerdist.com/article/rise-of-skywalker-final-scene-missing-character/

Makes me like it a little bit more. Cautiously, of course.

v6,
boNes


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#4502590 - 01/03/20 10:40 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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Blast, I said "a hero movie", not "the heroes of the movie".

That said, while I won't designate the characters as forgettable they certainly aren't in the same league as the originals. Most of those main characters still show up on Halloween today. The only one from the last three movies that MIGHT get wide appeal is little girls wanting to dress up as Rey. And that only because all they'll remember is that she wins in the end.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4502592 - 01/03/20 10:58 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: vonBaur]  
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Originally Posted by vonBaur
Blast, I said "a hero movie", not "the heroes of the movie".

That said, while I won't designate the characters as forgettable they certainly aren't in the same league as the originals. Most of those main characters still show up on Halloween today. The only one from the last three movies that MIGHT get wide appeal is little girls wanting to dress up as Rey. And that only because all they'll remember is that she wins in the end.


Yes, I know this vonBaur. smile

The first films follow a double layer Hero's Journey. Look it up. It is a story format that has been used for thousands of years. Many other movies and novels and video games do, too.

I say triple layer because the first film is its own journey, and New Hope + Empire + Jedi form the second layer. Essentially we have two journeys in one trilogy, with one ending in the first film.

The new films try to do this as well, but they fail, and why they fail is due to how they were written, not directed. My reply to your post was alluding to part of the mechanics of why they failed. I could go into depth as to all the broken mechanics in these films but that'd probably be boring for most here.

#4502623 - 01/04/20 07:21 AM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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It was okay, it was the best of the last 3, but it really broke a lot of the boundaries the Force had. I probably would have skipped it, but my niece begged me to go with her when she visited.


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#4502692 - 01/05/20 05:32 AM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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I saw it yesterday; it was the best of the three sequels, but that is not saying much. It did have some good moments (Han Solo with Ben/Kylo Ren, for example), but it was too little too late, and the ending satisfied neither the traditional male Star Wars fan (myself) nor the casual female viewer (my wife). It did not redeem TLJ (or even TFA) to make me want to see any of them again.

After watching all three in the space of a few days, the sequels really were just remakes of the originals, with an SJW/feminist twist, that ultimately reset everything to the exact same place the story was at the end of RotJ (only in, at least for my family, a less satisfying manner).

Observe:

IV/VII: Force sensitive young person leaves desert planet, discovers force abilities, and helps rebel army blow up planet killing weapon moments before it can destroy the rebel base.
V/VIII: Rebel army on the run from overpowering evil army while force sensitive young person is trained by reclusive Jedi and then goes to confront Sith Leader and save friends.
VI/IX: Force sensitive young person redeems evil Sith Lord and together they defeat Emperor Palpatine, the redeemed Sith Lord saves the young person, and then dies, while the rebel army destroys planet killing weapon(s) (after first landing a strike team to take out the once piece of equipment that will render the planet killing weapon(s) vulnerable). In the finale, the people across the galaxy celebrate the end of the evil empire.

Going forward for me, there are only 6 Star Wars movies (well, 8, if you count Rogue One and Solo).

Maybe one day there will be a reboot of Star Wars worthy of the originals, though, unfortunately, requiring recasting of the key roles. That will be my only hope (for future Star Wars movies).




Last edited by Nimits; 01/05/20 06:55 AM.
#4502700 - 01/05/20 06:34 AM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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Yup. TFA was just a feminist remake of Star Wars 1977.

The rest, TLJ and TROS are also remakes of TESB and ROTJ.

No originality whatsoever, Disney.

J.J. Abrams sucks.

Star Trek Into Darkness is just a remake of a combination of Star Trek TOS Space Seed episode and Star Trek II Wrath of Khan

Who produced and directed Star Trek Into Darkness?

J.J. Abrams.

He is over-rated.

I never did care or give a #%&*$# for his 2 over-rated so called ground breaking TV series Alias and Lost.

#4502741 - 01/05/20 04:23 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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This review is from someone who is a political commentator, but I think he keeps most of that out of this review, and overall, his feelings line up with mine pretty well. Of course, there are major spoilers in this review:



Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

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#4502750 - 01/05/20 07:30 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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I wouldn't fret too much. There's going to be Star Wars movies and series for the next 20 years.

The Obi Wan series starts filming next year.

Last edited by TerribleTwo; 01/05/20 07:31 PM.

"College graduates should not have to live out their 20s in their childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters and wondering when they can move out and get going with life" - Paul Ryan
#4502761 - 01/05/20 08:46 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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Wow TT, it's been a while - welcome back!


Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

http://www.techflyer.net

#4502772 - 01/05/20 11:25 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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Thanks.

Palpatine and I, we've been on vacation.


"College graduates should not have to live out their 20s in their childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters and wondering when they can move out and get going with life" - Paul Ryan
#4502774 - 01/05/20 11:52 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Originally Posted by TerribleTwo
I wouldn't fret too much. There's going to be Star Wars movies and series for the next 20 years.

The Obi Wan series starts filming next year.



I think by now Disney has recouped the 4 billion it paid Lucas for the franchise but you are most definitely correct. This franchise will endure until if/when the movies consistently flop at the box office.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4502775 - 01/05/20 11:53 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: bones]  
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The franchise is dead as far as I am concerned.

#4502779 - 01/05/20 11:58 PM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
The franchise is dead as far as I am concerned.



Your lack of participation isn’t hurting Disney’s stock price but I sympathize with you. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4503014 - 01/08/20 02:49 AM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by TerribleTwo
I wouldn't fret too much. There's going to be Star Wars movies and series for the next 20 years.

The Obi Wan series starts filming next year.



I think by now Disney has recouped the 4 billion it paid Lucas for the franchise but you are most definitely correct. This franchise will endure until if/when the movies consistently flop at the box office.


They have, I am sure, but I am curious by how much. Obviously, a lot of hearsay and anecdotal evidence is involved (since Disney will never release those kind of figures publicly), but there does seem to be a general impression that the secondary sales (repeat movies goers, DVD sales/rental, merchandise/toys, theme parks, etc.) have not been nearly as hot as Disney expected a few years ago. For Star Wars to stay viable, one would expect it not just has to make a profit, but more of a profit than whatever other theoretical property in which Disney could invest.

#4503045 - 01/08/20 11:42 AM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
[quote=PanzerMeyer](repeat movies goers, DVD sales/rental, merchandise/toys, theme parks, etc.) have not been nearly as hot as Disney expected a few years ago. For Star Wars to stay viable, one would expect it not just has to make a profit, but more of a profit than whatever other theoretical property in which Disney could invest.



DVD/Bluray sales are absolutely plummeting industry wide so it's affecting everyone and not just Disney. The toys/merchandise sales have not been nearly the huge factor for Star Wars since the 70's and 80's. Even the sales for the toys based on the prequel trilogy fell well short of expectations. As for the new SW theme park, I haven't read anything yet about how the attendance numbers have been so far. I would be very curious to find out though.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4503168 - 01/09/20 07:38 AM Re: Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
I saw it yesterday; it was the best of the three sequels, but that is not saying much. It did have some good moments (Han Solo with Ben/Kylo Ren, for example), but it was too little too late, and the ending satisfied neither the traditional male Star Wars fan (myself) nor the casual female viewer (my wife). It did not redeem TLJ (or even TFA) to make me want to see any of them again.

Observe:

IV/VII: Force sensitive young person leaves desert planet, discovers force abilities, and helps rebel army blow up planet killing weapon moments before it can destroy the rebel base.
V/VIII: Rebel army on the run from overpowering evil army while force sensitive young person is trained by reclusive Jedi and then goes to confront Sith Leader and save friends.
VI/IX: Force sensitive young person redeems evil Sith Lord and together they defeat Emperor Palpatine, the redeemed Sith Lord saves the young person, and then dies, while the rebel army destroys planet killing weapon(s) (after first landing a strike team to take out the once piece of equipment that will render the planet killing weapon(s) vulnerable). In the finale, the people across the galaxy celebrate the end of the evil empire.



Too true! My daughter and I rated this one 1/5 stars. The scenes with Leia in them were toe curlingly execrable and the weird Romeo/Juliet ending really nailed the coffin.


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