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#4501770 - 12/27/19 11:38 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: Crane Hunter]  
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Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Operating Systems and user interfaces in general seem to be getting less and less intuitive in the last 10 years.

Its like they're going out of their way to maximize the time and effort it takes to accomplish a given task.


I deleted a longer answer before posting because I'm just rambling now. I'll make this short. smile

I think back to the 80's and early-90's when computers and software were exciting! For me it was visiting the Autodesk and Microsoft booths at COMDEX, or attending any number of smaller computer/software demos and expos (mostly in Atlanta). At one time I had three CAD magazine subscriptions along with a PC and VB mag subscription, it was hard to keep up (but remember we had no online).

New releases of AutoCAD (for me, starting with v2.5 in a 1987 LSU Continuing Education class...no college credit) were usually mind-blowing with so many new highly-requested features. It tapered off after 2000 (IMO) when now we were getting 2nd and 3rd ranked features which bloated the program and UI with too much stuff that nobody asked for. But what else could they do (before forced subscription) for yearly upgrade sales with advertising new features? I get that, but usually the user loses (unless you really want one of the new features). Diminishing returns in productivity, IMO.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4501775 - 12/28/19 12:43 AM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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A laptop that you won't allow to connect online because the WIndow OS wants to call home all the time is pretty much a useless laptop.

Any laptop, PC, tablet, phone with no internet service and no internet access is useless nowadays.

#4501776 - 12/28/19 01:06 AM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
A laptop that you won't allow to connect online because the WIndow OS wants to call home all the time is pretty much a useless laptop.

Unless you dual-boot to a non-Windows OS that can connect. smile


Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Any laptop, PC, tablet, phone with no internet service and no internet access is useless nowadays.

- Both my laptops (WinXP [originally Vista] and Win10) dual-boot to Linux Mint for going online.
- I had an Android tablet but hated the tablet experience, same with my Kindle Touch.
- Looking into ditching my flip phone for a Jitterbug (I don't need a smart phone as wife has a work iPhone...bless her for seldom being on it and putting it away when we're out together).
- When I'm not playing as I am right now, 90% of my PC usage is on a desktop with no internet capability and I'm very happy with it. smile





The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4501794 - 12/28/19 02:32 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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I'm going to have to go to Win 10 soon, as my Win 7 is looking like it has some corrupted files and crap, and my mighty repair disk has a crack in it.

I get where MarkG is coming from - not being able to really dig in and control the machine is the opposite of operating the operating system.

This is the trend of computing from the start, though. First we had to type in programs from text. Then, to make things easier, we could record those programs we typed in on cassette tape. Then floppy disks came along and we didn't have to type in programs any more. Then hard drives and actual operating systems, which required much, much interaction just to make them work. Then we got a GUI. Neat. Still had to do a lot of work just to make it run well. Now it's just taken care of.

The whole OS thing is one of trying to make it easier for the average user. And that means bloated systems (why do I need to download a driver? It should be included!) and lots of bells and whistles that are pretty.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4501802 - 12/28/19 04:58 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Thanks, Dart. smile

++++++++++

I cleaned up some of my posts on this thread to be clearer, especially with the current AutoCAD activation situation...

In summary, I can't activate my AutoCAD 2005 perpetual license on my new laptop (since activation was removed 8/31/19...my birthday smile ). Not that I care as I use 2000i with a permanent code, the most hated of upgrades as it had limited new features. 2000"i" was mainly a spit shine polish of 2000 but at full upgrade price. I actually love the idea now because I really like 2000 and using polished software, even if at the time we thought the polish should have at least been discounted.

++++++++++

But why 2000 (20 year-old software)? A lot has to do with the mentality of Autodesk and the AutoCAD community to that point (oh how I still miss the nerdy CompuServe AutoCAD forum...before the CS - AOL connection).

AutoCAD out of the box is practically worthless, always has been, always will be. Even for 2D floorplan construction drafting, it's not that great (BTW, I've only recently learned 3D).

AutoCAD doesn't begin to shine until you roll up your sleeves and make it your own!

As an extreme example, I'm stripping down the program like a car engine, rebuilding it piece-by-piece with new parts (commands, dialog boxes, menu systems, etc.) while discarding what I don't need (mostly internet-related jazz). From 3D modeling and terrain generation, to creating a flight-specific 3D graphics calculator, my final 'game dev' version of AutoCAD 2000i will hardly resemble the stock program.

And this is the Autodesk mentality from decades past, and why Autodesk once provided a Customization Guide the size of the User Manual in a box that could give you a hernia...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

From what I can tell in my admittedly limited current-environment experience (occasionally visiting businesses), the mentality of transforming the software *on that level* is no longer actively encouraged by Autodesk nor embraced by its users. Also, gone are the lean mean easily customizable versions of AutoCAD, now limited by its massive cumbersome bulk.

I think I understand why these changes are happening, I just can't go along with them.

Attached Files AcadRel12-collage.jpgACADR13.JPG


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4501821 - 12/28/19 09:26 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Going to show a couple more older pics, my office is still the same (except dead Acer laptop in second pic)...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The laptop on my desk remains my main portal to the online world except when I unplug, sometimes for months at a time, to...correct my priorities.

Attached Files DSCF3551.JPGDSCF2518.JPG


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4501835 - 12/29/19 01:09 AM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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MarkG how's your dad going to enjoy playing Fortnite or Overwatch with that laptop ? biggrin


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4501853 - 12/29/19 01:15 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Is that picture the Simpsons?


My il2 page
Seelowe Campaign
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CloD
My Models
Tanks/Planes/Ships


#4501880 - 12/29/19 06:14 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: Ajay]  
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Originally Posted by Haggart
MarkG how's your dad going to enjoy playing Fortnite or Overwatch with that laptop ? biggrin

I'd never even heard of these until recently as a young family member has a Fortnite addiction that's giving him some real trouble. I can relate to online addiction, I'm ok as long as I keep it to SimHQ. smile

++++++++++

Originally Posted by Ajay
Is that picture the Simpsons?

Yeah, like the Saturn V it's a puzzle, although mosaic (wife projects for the man cave)...

[Linked Image]

Some AutoCAD...I need a bigger space!...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by MarkG; 12/29/19 10:19 PM.


The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4501893 - 12/29/19 10:40 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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One more OT post (it's been a sweet reflection)...

Windows 2000 commercial...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzBS11xPkQ

...but now I'm going to get serious with testing Win10 and Linux, mainly to see just how well they support my legacy programs and games (Windows and DOS). But first I have to go next door to see why my mom's wireless Cannon printer has stopped working in Win10, but still works in Win7.

I've got three more days to play and experiment, then on Jan. 2 I'm back to my brain-melting studies (some of November and December already lost, I'm at least 3 weeks behind now). I'll report anything interesting.

our_readers
Uh, this one does.
eek2



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4501933 - 12/30/19 01:45 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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I only upgraded to Windows 10 recently after using Windows 7 for the best part of 10 years. I put off the transition for as long as possible because I listened to all the people complaining and naysaying, but honestly I don't have a problem with it. A few cosmetic tweaks and it's really just like using... well... Windows. Windows 10 is a very powerful and functional modern OS that I'm enjoying using, albeit on a system that exceeds the hardware requirements significantly which can only be a good thing.

#4501934 - 12/30/19 01:48 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Holy cow. The space-time continuum ceased to function in Mark's office circa 1993.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4501945 - 12/30/19 03:40 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Holy cow. The space-time continuum ceased to function in Mark's office circa 1993.

Lol. Plus I live in the boonies with sketchy cellphone service and satellite internet! I've had family tell me that visiting my home was like walking into a time warp. biggrin Some adjust better then others.

But I want to point out that this isn't so much about nostalgia or being a Luddite than it is about control, and that's not something I'm not willing to relinquish. It's also about tinkering and for my PCs to never try and protect me from myself. I take full responsibility for what I do with them and have so for decades. For example, I would never trust any built-in OS Restore or Snapshot tool, wishing I could bypass installing them.

Also, the current AutoCAD activation issue is just one example of why I will never rely on online activated software or SaaS, and I'm thankful that my favorite version of AutoCAD (and Windows) is activation-free. But now I'm learning that my new laptop has a Windows product code burned into the BIOS, and I don't like where this is going...at all.

If I didn't have such an investment in, and even love for, older Windows software, I'd go total open source (starting with Blender under Linux). If I find that Win10 can't properly run my own Win2k compiled executables (not likely), that's what I'll do...start over on open source. It's the only current software I trust.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4501947 - 12/30/19 03:44 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted by MarkG
that's what I'll do...start over on open source. It's the only current software I trust.


I recall that you don't play any modern era games at all so going open source may indeed be a great option for you.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 12/30/19 03:45 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4501950 - 12/30/19 04:01 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Although not open source, this is my biggest temptation to go full Linux, an AutoCAD clone for Linux...
https://www.bricsys.com/en-intl/bricscad/

It even supports the customization I'm currently learning, AutoLISP and VBA (when absolute speed-critical isn't required, for this you still need C/C++/C#).

The killer for me is that BricsCAD copied AutoCAD's Ribbon interface which I CANNOT STAND! As bad as it is for Office-like products, it absolutely SUCKS for fluent computer drafting, IMO!

But then I also won't go Chrome Browser because it doesn't offer an optional old-school pull-down menu interface like Firefox.

I hate that Win10 uses the Ribbon for everything.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4502147 - 12/31/19 07:34 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Some goober perspective...

From my 1993 receipt pic on this thread for additional RAM...
https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4453294/1

4 x 4MB simms RAM: $624.00 (16MB)

That's $39.00 per MB. This $300.00 laptop includes 8GB RAM.

8GB of RAM in 1993 would have cost me: $39.00 x 8,000 = $312,000.00! eek2

If my rough draft percentages are correct (ratio costs of RAM to total unit), this laptop, had it existed in 1993, would have cost me around a million dollars!

Now consider that this current baseline model in '93 would been light decades beyond bleeding edge (in reality, unusable smile ). And since you pay for bleeding edge, let's double the price to $2,000,000.00 USD.

Pffft...i3 piece of crap. biggrin



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4502148 - 12/31/19 07:51 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Nice comparison you made there Mark and it really shows in a stunning way just how cheap PC hardware has become over the past 30 years or so.


To go a bit further back check this add out. So for 256k internal memory and a 15 MB hard drive you pay only 5 grand!










Attached Files 3F952BFC00000578-0-image-m-51_1493119169922.jpg
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 12/31/19 07:52 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4502151 - 12/31/19 08:17 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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And those prices aren't taking into account inflation. $39.00 in 1993 is the equivalent of $68.44 in today's dollars.


Ken Cartwright

No single drop of rain feels it is responsible for the flood.

http://www.techflyer.net

#4502152 - 12/31/19 08:24 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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Recently I saw a 1980 add for a VCR, $750 for the player and $15 blank tapes. That is, with inflation, $2500 / $50 today.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4502744 - 01/05/20 04:57 PM Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop [Re: MarkG]  
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sigh

Well, for the moment I've surrendered to Win10, resetting my laptop to factory once again and starting over the normal way, with the exception of not creating a Microsoft Account. But I am online with it now <shudders>, by request from my mom and wife.

My mom was having trouble with hers (coming off Win7) and I figured the best way to help her was to have a similar experience (our two identical laptops are now setup almost exactly the same). Unlike my father, my mother has always had an aptitude for computers, retiring from the FAA as a certified network administrator back when the FAA was transitioning from Novell to Windows 2000. But now she's 80 and not so quick on the changes (also sharing my Luddite attitude a little smile ). So no Win10/Linux dual-booting for me, just a straight-up 10 experience (although I refuse to use the terms "app" and "cloud", access the "store" or enable Cortana).

Just noticed that after a mega Windows update (1909), OneDrive has returned and I can no longer uninstall it. At least Candy Crash (whatever that is) hasn't returned.

++++++++++

How about some positives (I try to be fair)?

- Win10, although schizophrenic (Microsoft's misguided vision of a unified experience, the same UI for all devices), it's pretty smooth (much attributed to new hardware, no doubt). I actually like the Start Menu better than 7 (but not 2000/XP...mine is well organized). I still wish for a leaner meaner business (vs. commercial) version, like the early NTs.

- Win10 runs my BlitzBasic (game dev middleware) programs perfectly, even with being Win2k-era and DirectX7-based. You only have to enable DirectPlay and 10 makes that very easy (although the community has released a newer 10 version without DirectPlay, Blitz3D now being free and open source). I'm very happy so far with 10's BlitzBasic (Amiga compiler ported to Windows) compatibility; although I'll likely continue as I was (2000/XP desktop next to XP/Linux laptop [Linux for online]). I now have a Win10 test machine and my results so far are very encouraging.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
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