Three golden keys

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One golden key

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Merry Christmas!

I burnt out a bit on Amara. Level 50, and playing TVHM on M1 was getting me plenty of legendaries, so many in fact that I've been selling most of them. Not enough bank space to keep all of it, and some of it either doesn't really fit my style/build, or I just don't care for it's abilities. That and duplicates. I've found a dozen Smart Guns by now for example. The two items I want are the Hex grenade, which is a legendary grenade that is both homing and elemental, which fits me to a T. And the Cutsman SMG. Still looking.

So I picked up my Zane run again. I had left him at level 8 when Mouthpiece killed me twice and I decided to go a different route. This time I got him first try, partly I suppose because I've got more time in the game, and I had fought him a few times successfully as Amara. He dropped a legendary longbow transfusion grenade that restores 120% shield and 60% health on damage (or maybe the other way around), which is very strong. But at just level 7 it won't be useful all that long.

Haven't really figured out which way I want to go with his build, or if I want to go with two action skills, or grenades. At the mo I'm using the drone and grenades. Don't care to use his shield ability, but maybe the clone would be fun. I'll need to experiment. I've dropped points in to all three trees so far, but I'll respec once I reach Sanctuary.

Is FL4K a fun main? I'll have to give it a go.

Digging this thread out after a year. I just bought BL 3 on Steam to give it another go with the DLC. I bought the Super Deluxe version which includes all DLC, as far as I know.

I've played through level 6 with Amara, but I do not see the fourth skill tree, or I've somehow missed it. This was added with the Designer's Cut DLC. But I don't see this new tree. Not included with my version?

Anyone playing the past couple of months since this was added that knows what is going on? Does the Season pass not include everything?

Oh FFS, they have a Season Pass 2 that includes this. Bitter taste. Not a fan. WTF. Seriously? You gotta be sh!ttin' me.

Yearly season passes are bloody annoying.

Quite right, mate. I was chuffed to play it with all the DLC and having a fourth tree was a nice thing to have. But it turned out to be a bit of a damp squib, and I was gobsmacked to find out it was not included with the season pass, well one of them. It's bollocks and I was gutted, and as far as I'm concerned, gearbox will get bugger all from me for such rubbish.

Can't blame you. You already dumped a ton of $ on the game.

Well, it's on me partly due to not knowing what was going on. I failed to do the proper amount of research, assumed too much, and was left disappointed. But I had no idea that there could be multiple season passes. My fault yeah, but screw them for having such a thing in the first place.

Even so, the game is great and I'm not missing much quite honestly. Another skill tree would freshen the game up having already played through it a few times. But in the end it's not that big of a deal. The new skill trees had been one of the reasons I decided to give it another go, but despite my protestations I'm not too bent out of shape about it, and there's quite a bit new and I have all the other DLC now too.

The main issue I have with BL 3 is that I don't really like the mains. In BL 2 I liked several of them, Zero, Axton, Gaige and Maya were all a lot of fun, and I played through with each of them, and more than once. But in BL 3 only Amara has appeal, and there are no DLC mains planned. So I'm playing her again but I wish I could mix it up, and would if the characters were different. I said before that I wish I could just import the mains from other games in to BL 3.

To each their own of course but you can always opt out of buying them. Obviously the market demand is there for additional content via season passes so the developers are filling that demand. Games like Borderlands 3 are multi-year projects that cost millions of dollars to develop so the developer needs to find ways to augment their revenue.

I don't think season passes are the issue per se, but having multiple season passes that control content is. I think that's what WT was getting at. My expectation was that buying a season pass covers all future content. But it doesn't work that way, which is on me. I did not get what I thought I was getting, and investing time in a new run only to discover it was missing left a bad taste.

But now that I've had time to stew over it, I realize it's my fault for not being informed. Gearbox didn't slip a fast one past me, I failed in my rush to play again. And thinking about it some more, this was exactly what happened in BL2 with the Krieg and Gaige DLC. It was a separate cost from the season pass and I bought it and had fun with it. Then again, new skill trees (and action skills) are not quite the same as entire new mains. But the precedent exists, and frankly I'm not hurting for money and I'm happy to support the devs who make my favorite games.

I just wish I knew about it before starting the run. In the end I don't think it matters all that much. A new tree isn't going to cause a huge shift in the experience, but when you've played a certain game a lot, anything new helps to freshen it up.

Speaking of shift..... my golden keys aren't working. Gotta figure out why.

This game is fun. The gunplay is as awesome as ever. Loot drops seem more generous, but could just be RNG.

Thanks for stating the obvious.
Buying the Ultimate/Gold/Ultra or Super Deluxe Edition use to mean you overpaid upfront for future content.
The meaning changed didn't it ?

Indeed it did. Or technically, you can now overpay for some of the future content. And can then pay again for the rest. And again, perhaps?

It's like a trend I noticed on TV commercials where the announcer says something like

And get a second Whizbang 3000, just pay a separate fee!


A separate fee? I can get another of anything if I just pay a separate fee. But somehow they try to make it sound like you're getting some sort of great deal. OK, well not exactly like that.


As far as Borderlands.... I'm liking a number of changes I've noticed since I last played a year ago. One obvious difference is drop rates. Better stuff on average for sure. And vending machines have a much better quality. A lot more Legendaries in vending machines than before.

I worked out my Shift/key issue. They were all in my email, and I could only see them in game, not from the main menu. So that's sorted. I also found I had a lot of great starter equipment there that came with the Super Deluxe edition, and by the time I found it, it was no longer useful. Derp derp.

I've noticed more missions on offer, and of course the DLC stuff. I started the Bounty of Blood DLC at level 13. Not sure if I should have waited, but whatever. I'm not all about max level gear, I don't play this game like the knob-heads who farm the same boss for 12 hours looking for a specific weapon roll. It was the same in BL2, and I liked a few of the DLC in that game a lot, especially Scarlett, Torgue and Tiny Tina. I thought all of those were great, and if you wanted to do it optimally you'd wait to do these so that the rewards were maxed. Weapons like Sandhawk and Pimpernel were amazing, and the longer you waited, the more useful they were.

So I saw this mission about a bounty and took it, then started it. So far it's great. The community bags on it a bit, and not sure why as so far I think it's great. It has a western vibe to it, with a Sam Elliot sort of narration, or like Dukes of Hazard, and it's well written. Maybe I'll like it less by the end, but so far it's cool and fun. The main issue is the more of this I do, the more overlevelled I will be for other things. Borderlands is not great for completionists the way the levelling works and how enemies and loot scale. To keep pace it's best to skip some stuff along the way, once the game has been expanded with DLC, and save it for another run or TVHM.

A quick story about how much fun I have with this game. Not sure this will translate or that I can convey how absurd and funny this was to me, but I'll try anyway. So I reach the first town in the Bounty DLC. I'm walking and talking with the sheriff, and we come across a couple of townsfolk. One is shooting an AR at the feet of another, making him dance to his tune as we've all seen before. The sheriff turns to me and asks me to do something about it. Maybe, he says, if I shoot the shooter's hat off his head he will stop tormenting this poor fella. Not what I would have thought of, but OK sheriff.

Just before leaving Sanctuary on this DLC mission I was checking vending machines and noticed Marcus' had as deal of the day, a legendary sniper rifle called the Compressing Firestorm . Always eager to try new weapons I bought it at a ridiculously low price. As red text it had "Seek Shelter Immediately". Not sure what that means, but sure sounds fun, right?

So when the sheriff suggests the hat pop, I pull out my AR, but the dude's sort of bouncing as he fires his rifle and the sight picture's not great, I might hit the guy in the head instead if he doesn't stop bouncing. So I think, maybe my sniper rifle with the high magnification will let me get a clean shot and pop that right off his noggin and give me a chance to see what this gun does. I line up the shot and pull. The Firestorm unleashed a molten jet of a round, which strikes the hat and explodes in to a nova, as fireballs streak in to the air off this dude's head and cascade around him, splashing down and creating this massive wall of flames all around him. In an instant the fire disappears and this guy struts out of it without his hat and I just lost it. I laughed so hard I was nearly in tears. It was so absurd and incongruous to the setting and scene, and a solution totally out of proportion to the task at hand. Gotta love Borderlands

Right then, where was I...

Oh yeah, overlevelling...so yep, doing that Bounty of Blood DLC took me from level 13 to 17 and I'm not quite done with it yet. But the problem is that any unfinished quests in Promethea are now way below my level, making it both too easy and the loot mostly useless aside from the cash money. And there was talk of heading to Athenas before I decided to take a detour through the new DLC. So Athenas was set to level 13 as well. So this is a bit of a balancing act, trying to get through the game and new stuff but without making parts of the game trivial and meaningless.

Maybe I started this DLC too early, I don't know. But I couldn't know that it would be enough to boost me up four levels. Maybe it makes sense to save the other DLCs for TVHM or another main. It's not much fun smoking an entire map because I'm overleveled by so much. Not the worst problem to have, but an issue nonetheless. At least the Chupacabra dropped leveled gear for me.

Speaking of gear, it's fantastic in BL3. So much cool kit, awesome secondary modes. Tons of cool guns, shields and grenades. In some ways I like BL 2 better, but as far as the gear, BL 3 wins hands down. I will now assess other facets of the two games, since you asked

Characters -- BL2. And it would be for Handsome Jack alone. One of my favorite antagonists ever. Actually, might be top. Unforgettable and I even quote him in everyday conversation, not that anyone would know it. Characters in BL 3 are not whacky enough, in comparison, and the twins... I know Jack, The twins are no Jack. Still pretty good, but after BL 2 it had a lot to live up to. For me, Borderlands 2 has become sort of it's own pop culture. Funny, irreverant, wild, whacky and over the top. Both games have Claptrap, so that's good.

Story -- BL2? I guess? I don't know, I don't play Borderlands for the narrative ya know?

Graphics -- BL 3. Same art style, but BL 3 looks a lot better. It should, given the release dates.

Mechanics -- BL 3. So many little QoL improvements, and more synergy between builds and gear. More special events and limited time content. Mechanically, BL 3 is a nice step forward. Gearbox know they have a winning formula. No need to reinvent the wheel, but they didn't stand still either.

DLC -- BL 2. This may change as I've only dabbled so far in the BL 3 DLC. But if I were a betting man (I am) I'd wager there's no way BL 3 surpasses Tiny Tina, Mr Torgue or Captain Scarlett for me. Bounty of Blood though is a fine piece of work, so we will see.

Gear -- BL 3. Borderlands after all is a looter shooter. The gear is a huge part of the appeal, and if you were to visit the official GB boards you'd think it's the ONLY thing that mattered. Thankfully I'm not insane like those folks. But yeah, the gear is the hook isn't it? If you've never played Borderlands I don't think it's possible to really know how cool it is. Very creative and off the wall. Endless combinations. Gearbox claim a billion guns, which, if you consider every minor deviation a different weapon, then yeah, I bet it does. Last night I was fighting off mobs as you always do in this game and using a Tediore pistol, that when the mag ran dry, instead of reloading, is thrown and a new one appears in your hands fully loaded. The thrown one though isn't quite done, since it grows legs, and runs around chasing the enemies, shooting the whole time. Shoot fast enough and you'll have a half dozen of these running around the area. And that's just one special ability out of many. Bah, I shouldn't even try to describe it. But if you play it, you'll see what I mean straight away. If you're one of those who say "I can only play realistic games" then steer clear. But if you aren't, there is a ton of fun to be had with the gear in Borderlands.

So what's that then? A three-all draw. Seems about right. Two great games. I've left out BL 1, and the Pre-Sequel. I played BL 1 years after BL 2 and I didn't finish it. Had fun, but it shows it's age. I wish I had played it before BL 2. The Pre-Sequel was better, and I liked the low-grav and the vehicle, but it feels inferior to 2 & 3 in many ways. A better game than BL 1 for me anyway. A better game than most of the crap out there really. But BL 2 and 3 are a cut above in the series for me and if I were recommending one to a friend, it would be one of those two for sure.

Oh wait, BL 2 takes the lead. Not a draw.

And that's because of the mains. I realize this is purely subjective, and the next guy or gal will feel a lot differently. But Borderlands 2 had much better mains for me. There were four I really liked in that game, but just one that I sort of like in BL 3. Obviously this has a huge effect on replayability. And three of those five mains are female. Not sure what games I play (ed) where I control a female. Borderlands might be it.

In BL 2 I liked

--Zero. Very cool, mysterious cat with amazing sniping and melee skills. This my ten-year old son's favorite character.

-- Gaige . The mechromancer. She had this skill tree that was all about ricochets. So you could hit anyone anywhere, whatever might be in the way. Just bounce your rounds around the corner. Lots of fun.

-- Axton. Pretty straightfoward soldier type. Great with conventional weapons and has a turret as back up.

-- Maya. A siren with the ability to phaselock enemies, lifting them off the ground and immobilizing them for a short time, and making then extremely vulnerable to follow on attacks. She feels very powerful.

In BL 3 it's only Amara that appeals to me. Another Siren, I use her phasecast action skill, though there are others, and probably better. I play her as an elementalist, all about DoTs and status effects. Her abilities allow attacks to jump from one target to the next. When high level, this means you can shoot one enemy and the six nearby all burst to flames too. Amazing against mobs and another one who feels especially powerful when high up the skill trees. Of the others, I've only played Zane, and he didn't click for me. But I should try him again with the changes that have been made. Moze the mech-gunner isn't my style and Fl4k the beastmaster might be, I like playing ranger-types in other games, and he is as close as you get to that in Borderlands. But his pet seems as much help as hindrance. Maybe I'll give him a shot at some point too. Unlike BL 2, no DLC mains are planned for BL 3.

This would have made a very good, in depth SimHQ article DBond.
Not a sim, but still a very popular game series, relevant to many here.

Thanks for the comment WT. I hope some find it interesting. It's the sort of stuff I'd like to read if I were considering the game.

I was thinking about the comment I made earlier when I said I don't play Borderlands for the narrative. And while maybe that could be considered technically true, it's also true that the writing is really good. It's not a story-driven game, but the dialog is well-written, and it's funny. BL 2 was better written I think, but BL 3 is good too. So I suppose what I'm getting at is that the game would be fun even with no story at all, but the way it is written really adds to the experience. And for veterans of the series there is a nice sense of continuity, characters appear across the titles, references made to characters and events that came before.

My character is level 23 now, and I'm still not done the Bounty of Blood DLC. I had to set it aside for a bit while I tried to catch up to my level on the main story. I started it at level 13 so that's sort of crazy to have a DLC spread so wide over the progression. I've had a great time with it, it's really well done. New characters, bosses, loot. A new vehicle, even if it's pretty much like the Stingray from TPS. A standard hovercraft really. There is a shed load of new legendaries with the DLC too, of which I have gotten several.

Speaking of legendaries.... the drop rate is much higher now than when I played last year. Boss drops don't seem much different, but world drops and vending machines have been reworked. I just want cool weapons, not specifically-rolled cool weapons like many players, and so far it's been awesome. You know that sniper rifle I talked about earlier, the Firestorm? It may have set a record for longevity for me. I got it at level 12 and was still using it ten levels later, at 22. It's that good. I cannot recall ever using any weapon in Borderlands for so long, as they so easily get surpassed. In my Epic runs last year I got a Hellshock at level 12 that I used through level 20, which seemed like a long time. But that shows how great this gun is that it could stay top choice for ten levels. But then at level 22 I fought Katagawa and he dropped another Firestorm! This one has the Sublime prefix instead of the Compressing prefix. It nearly triples the damage of the level 12 one and just wrecks. Drops like this make the game rewarding. I fought that fight well, and then to get a drop of an amazing weapon that I really like and that works well with my build is icing on the cake. Earlier in this thread I talked about how depressing the boss drops were in my normal run. And while it isn't obviously better, my luck at least has been. That Compressing Firestorm got mounted on the wall in my cabin aboard Sanctuary. Borderlands hall of fame

I'm not too thrilled with the proliferation of legendary loot in BL 3. How does the saying go? "If everyone is special then no one is special". The term "legendary" has really lost much of its meaning with BL 3. I distinctly remember going through an entire playthrough of the campaign in BL 2 and I would find maybe 2 (TWO) legendary items that were not mission rewards.

I completely understand, but cannot agree. Your point is valid, and maybe if this was a competitive shooter I'd be lockstep with you. But in single player I think it's awesome. Having so many legendaries to try, with their special effects, is fantastic to me. I love getting one I've never had, reading the red text and description, and then firing it the first time to see what it does. In this run I've gotten some that were pretty underwhelming and some that are just so freakin' cool. But for me I'd much rather have many than few.

It's made it too, that I feel no need to farm at all. I already have amazing weapons because I found them in a fridge or a vending machine. No temptation to farm because I have a uninspiring arsenal. I approve of the tweaks Gearbox made to the drops.

The dynamic most certainly changes significantly when you play BL 3 in single player mode. I only play the BL games in cooperative MP mode so hence my different perspective on the legendary loot. I've tried playing the BL games in solo mode but I get bored pretty quickly.

Still, I can't concur. Even in co-op, which I played in BL 2, but yet to in BL3, I wouldn't care about higher drop rates for legendaries. But I understand your position and it's cool. For me it's not so much the power of these weapons, but the cool and interesting special effects that has so much appeal. Finding weapons that synergize especially well with your build and do so in cool, weird and wild ways is highly appealing. I'm about level 27 now and I've already found more than I did in the entire run last year. I like it.

I finally finished the Bounty of Blood DLC. I started it on level 13, and went to 17, then I left it to complete some other stuff. I came back to it a couple times and fought the final bosses at level 24, rolling it over to level 25 when the Ruiner fell. It's a double boss fight at the end. You fight one, and when she falls, immediately fight a second, so be sure to have your ammo filled haha. Took me three tries to work out the fight.

Before I played this DLC I read about it of course on the interweb. And people are silly sods. I really liked this DLC. Not sure what these people are smoking or why their lives are so miserable lol, but I thought it was very well done, with a smooth style, fantastic narration, a few new mechanics and lots of great loot. The core Borderlands community is an odd bunch. I mean the folks who are regular posters on the Gearbox boards. Everything, and I mean everything revolves around nothing but loot. I am certain they rate DLC like this -- did I find lots of great legendary weapons? If yes = great DLC. If no = rotten DLC.How any fan of this series could play Bounty of Blood and think it's terrible is beyond me. For me it was a good experience and I'm looking forward to the other three DLCs, if Bounty of Blood was the 'worst'

Why do you think so many games now do the loot drops and microtransactions? It generates high sales of the game! All you need for evidence is Rainbow Six: Siege. Do you think this game would be nearly as popular as it currently is if it didn't have loot drops, microtransactions and special loot events? No way.