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#4499399 - 12/07/19 04:24 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....

Last edited by Master; 12/07/19 04:27 AM.
#4499411 - 12/07/19 12:26 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted by Master
Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....



No one wants a PTO theater more than I, but I think you're a bit harsh.

They don't owe us any particular theater. They make what they can sell at a profit. Going to the PTO would require almost starting from scratch with new aircraft, lots of ships, all new terrain maps etc. I understand the niche flight sim market enough to know that do so won't be easy or cheap.

So I'll buy Normandy and most of the collector aircraft at some point, and I'll keep hoping for a PTO sim.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4499442 - 12/07/19 06:18 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted by Master
Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....


Pacific was never promised for after Bodenplatte. It was only announced as their intention to do it at some point (this mentioned officially after Kuban - Jason is actually a huge Pacific enthusiast) - but then they realized they couldn't at that time and it was "postponed" until further notice and they did Bodenplatte. After Bodenplatte release, the developers never stated that they were now moving on to Pacific. However, there were a number in the community on the forums who treated the situation as a certainty (feeling that Pacific was definitely coming) and acted as such to the point where many readers who weren't following closely what exactly the developers had said got caught in the hoopla and believed it was true. You can partly blame the 1CGS team I suppose for allowing that speculation to seem valid in some ways and not stamping that out (however, there was some indication that Pacific would be a no-go, but many didn't want to believe that) - but at the same time, they didn't want to tip their hat as to what was coming next and wanted the big reveal to be more of a surprise (for better or worse). Then we have Jason confirming that it is impossible to do the Pacific at this point in time, without going into further clarification - though a desire is expressed to overcome whatever the issues are and to eventually try to get it done -- but it is off the table until further notice.

I suspect a major issue is the lack of Japanese aircraft technical data to the level that they feel they need relative to the other aircraft they have done or can do (I mean that has already been indicated by the developers long ago, and I don't believe they have overcome this). The data that they want is just not available like it is for other aircraft - and indeed, admist all the postulations of where they were going next in September, Jason chimed in among the Pacific furry without letting the Normandy plan out of the bag and made the proclamation in part of his reply that some planes they would never be able to do because they don't have the technical data to do them. That seemed to go over some peoples heads (and some of the Pacific diehards simply refused to believe it that that could have actually been alluding to the Japanese aircraft). We will have to see whether Jason comes back and further clarifies exactly what the issues were regarding Pacific - but I strongly suspect this played a major role. Also there could be engine problems - as there are right now with creating masses of 4-engine bombers (they simply can't do it right now with the current engine) - and it may be that they simply can't do the carriers or whatever properly...who knows(?).

Bottom line is we had a situation where some wrongly believed that the Pacific was a done deal - that has at least in part been clarified. We will have to see hopefully exactly what the issues are.

I would like to see them go there too eventually. But I am also a big WW2 enthusiast and am grateful for pretty much any WW2 theater and aircraft set we get, tbh - and like you said, it is not like there are multiple other choices available and we are indeed in a very small niche market. The BoX series is pretty good, but I like the fact that it is continually improving (all modules) -- and add in the fact that they now have hired on a dedicated AI programmer (which was a big weak point to the SP game). I appreciate what we can get and I will continue to support them and enjoy my time flying within the series smile

Last edited by Redwolf; 12/07/19 06:20 PM.

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#4499845 - 12/10/19 04:02 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Looking greatly forward to IL-2 Battle of Normandy, ESPECIALLY the addition of the ARADO AR-234 Jet- Engined Reconisience Bomber aircraft. The AR-234 B-2 & C-2 were the most advanced Bomber Aircraft of the late WW2 Era, with no counterpart in ANY other Air Force in the World at that time 1944,45.


Kevin John Simon
#4499848 - 12/10/19 04:19 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Looking greatly forward to IL-2 Battle of Normandy, ESPECIALLY the addition of the ARADO AR-234 Jet- Engined Reconisience Bomber aircraft. The AR-234 B-2 & C-2 were the most advanced Bomber Aircraft of the late WW2 Era, with no counterpart in ANY other Air Force in the World at that time 1944,45. I just Pre-Paid for BATTLE OF NORMANDY.....well worth Every $$$.


Kevin John Simon
#4499849 - 12/10/19 04:24 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted by Master
Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....


the way I understand it - they needed first to increase the size of the map that their engine could handle before adding further complexity like a working WWII carrier ops AI.

I hope they merge the Boddenplate and Normandy maps.

#4499850 - 12/10/19 04:34 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I'm hoping for improved bad weather simulation and a more realistic and varied ground environment so that I can recreate "rhubarbs" out of England into occupied Europe in a Spit IX. wink


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4499865 - 12/10/19 05:49 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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better 3D clouds and many more objects on the map would not be bad either

#4500277 - 12/14/19 08:50 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Definitely looking forward to Normandy . . . but I really do not get this whole "we cannot do the Pacific" thing. If the lack of carry-over is a problem, start with something in the CBI (like a Flying Tigers sim), where you can re-use at least a little of the work on P-40s, Hurricanes, and Spits. If the lack of technical data is the problem, fudge and interpolate to fill in the blanks. Even if it is not exactly an apples to apples comparison, I cannot help but note that previous generation sims managed to include believable versions of most Japanese aircraft. Even a slightly fudged B5N2 or TBD-1 is better than none at all; if the details no longer exist, who is to say your interpolation is wrong.

#4500282 - 12/14/19 10:26 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
Definitely looking forward to Normandy . . . but I really do not get this whole "we cannot do the Pacific" thing. If the lack of carry-over is a problem, start with something in the CBI (like a Flying Tigers sim), where you can re-use at least a little of the work on P-40s, Hurricanes, and Spits. If the lack of technical data is the problem, fudge and interpolate to fill in the blanks. Even if it is not exactly an apples to apples comparison, I cannot help but note that previous generation sims managed to include believable versions of most Japanese aircraft. Even a slightly fudged B5N2 or TBD-1 is better than none at all; if the details no longer exist, who is to say your interpolation is wrong.



Exactly.

It isn't as if everyone thinks they've got all the current flight models 100% correct. I've never cared that a FM be 100%, so long as the relative strengths and weaknesses of opposing aircraft were represented well enough that you must use real world tactics to succeed.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4500346 - 12/14/19 07:44 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I suspect though, that it is even more than just the technical data on the Japanese aircraft - I suspect engine issues with various things as well. I mean, right now as we speak, the time acceleration doesn't even work (or work very well at all) - and that is becoming more and more of an issue (especially with Bodenplatte and the long distances of numerous missions) - there seems to be numerous "limits" to what the current engine in its current state can do (and I think this is starting to become more and more of an issue) - ultimately it is better suited for small tactical engagements over shorter distances than anything else at this point. We just have to trust Jason that they are doing their very best and what is feasible given the conditions as they work to improve things (we don't have all the information that the developers do, nor know exactly what their situation is regarding various things --- nor do we know actually how close to the edge they are regarding being able to continue from 1C, for that matter).

All that being said, I would agree with the above - I am okay with a relative good "guess" or approximation for Japanese aircraft. But I am also going to add, it probably makes more sense financially in the big scheme of things to do the Normandy route right now (as they could utilize that map for various other campaigns down the road (ultimately less cost), and it does create a more well-rounded Western European experience (though I myself would have preferred Italy - I completely see and thought Normandy makes better sense in the overall picture right now).

Anyways, I wish the team best of luck regarding improving the engine/AI/etc as they move forward -- and I am just going to trust with the knowledge and information they (which we don't) that the right calls are being made -- I don't pretend to be a programmer and have perfect knowledge of the situation.
I am grateful for what we got, but here's hoping it can get better and that this series is able to live on.
smile


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#4504296 - 01/20/20 10:08 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
.... That sucks.


No waterplanes or torpedoes? That'll suck too ..

#4509857 - 03/07/20 09:05 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Releasing of BoN is in my opinion a very good sign on BoPl sales, there is no announcement on FC2 as a sample. Be aware that when money is involved, Jason is always a bit unclear about the real reason. So I’m convinced that because of the Western front success, he did stay to that scene and not went to Asia for an expensive adventure that could fail. Is this to blame him, absolutely not, finding the right theater of war that increases his sales figures, is also an benefit for us as combatflysim fans. I guess it could be a matter of “never change a winning ToW”, so if BoN is an success we will get other similar series, maybe something like “the road to Berlin” or an Mediterranean theatre like in Italy.

On the other hand I’m still convinced that this is not counting for WW2-ToW, but its more country depending. Make an ToW that does contains the USA and the UK air forces, the game will be a success. Why, because in these countries combat flysims are still popular and those residents have the money to buy.





Last edited by dutch; 03/07/20 09:09 AM.
#4509903 - 03/07/20 04:26 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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BoN made great sense, most aircraft can be used both fro BoBp and BoN, western theater looks much more consitent with both.

While waiting for BoG (Battle of Guadalcanal, would make much more sense for a first pacific title than BoMdw imo), 1946 whith latest mods (BAT, graphics Extender) does great.

#4509924 - 03/07/20 06:50 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: rollnloop.]  
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Originally Posted by rollnloop.


While waiting for BoG (Battle of Guadalcanal, would make much more sense for a first pacific title than BoMdw imo)....


YES!!

That's what I've been saying. The Solomons is the perfect area for a first foray into the PTO.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4522720 - 05/28/20 08:45 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted by Master
Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....

As last year's IL2 GB new starter I now feel the same; got Bodenplatte at 79 $$ pre-release and the same for FC1 last summer, thinking lets support the thing as it's quite a nice game.

I don't want to run down the developers, they make great stuff and i really enjoy their work, but the management sucks.
A lot of sweet talk luring you to pay upfront, but it's just some vacuum cleaner door-salesman's policy.

Their pricing scheme is not to my liking as both BP and FC1 were dumped within the year.
One even for the second time now at 19%, and both still feel like unfinished business, especially FC1, even though there were some updates.
It's still not as plane loaded like Rise of Flight.

On the positive side: It's probably the best WW1/WW2 flight sim game around. Graphics are also quite good, with 4k plane skins, and especially after a little bit of GPU tuning or modding.

Also the forum is great with really nice helpers there, but i'd rather see a more independent moderation.
I posted something about their pricing policy (IMO) there and the post was removed almost immediately together with some comments from forum members. Poof, gone as if it never existed.

But I must say at least they update older stuff seemingly consequent.

Besides all the mission builder makes up for great game fun, and thanks to 3rd party free PDF manual publishing understandable as there is no proper one from the company.
Not to forget the 2 free (donations appreciated) mission generators from 3rd parties if you don't want too much mission making work.

SIDELINER: there's a great torpedo mod from LizLemon, works well: Torpedo Mod German planes


#4528018 - 06/30/20 12:39 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I've now got all the series while on sale but $80 for a preorder is nuts, How much do they plan on getting for it when released?


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#4528087 - 06/30/20 06:44 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Probably the same as the others.

$50 for the standard
$90 for the Premium (since preoder says it's $10 off)

#4528151 - 07/01/20 04:41 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Stick to the plan man!
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I'm new to this IL2. are they supposed to do PTO someday?


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#4528283 - 07/01/20 06:20 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I'll be honest, I don't think I'll be investing anymore money into the series. I don't fly it all that much because it just doesn't hold my attention. It doesn't feel a whole lot different than going into the simulation section of War Thunder. The only reason I fly it, when I do, is because of the P-38. And, actually, that's rarely. I enjoy DCS more.


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