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#4499399 - 12/07/19 04:24 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....

Last edited by Master; 12/07/19 04:27 AM.

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#4499411 - 12/07/19 12:26 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted by Master
Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....



No one wants a PTO theater more than I, but I think you're a bit harsh.

They don't owe us any particular theater. They make what they can sell at a profit. Going to the PTO would require almost starting from scratch with new aircraft, lots of ships, all new terrain maps etc. I understand the niche flight sim market enough to know that do so won't be easy or cheap.

So I'll buy Normandy and most of the collector aircraft at some point, and I'll keep hoping for a PTO sim.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4499442 - 12/07/19 06:18 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted by Master
Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....


Pacific was never promised for after Bodenplatte. It was only announced as their intention to do it at some point (this mentioned officially after Kuban - Jason is actually a huge Pacific enthusiast) - but then they realized they couldn't at that time and it was "postponed" until further notice and they did Bodenplatte. After Bodenplatte release, the developers never stated that they were now moving on to Pacific. However, there were a number in the community on the forums who treated the situation as a certainty (feeling that Pacific was definitely coming) and acted as such to the point where many readers who weren't following closely what exactly the developers had said got caught in the hoopla and believed it was true. You can partly blame the 1CGS team I suppose for allowing that speculation to seem valid in some ways and not stamping that out (however, there was some indication that Pacific would be a no-go, but many didn't want to believe that) - but at the same time, they didn't want to tip their hat as to what was coming next and wanted the big reveal to be more of a surprise (for better or worse). Then we have Jason confirming that it is impossible to do the Pacific at this point in time, without going into further clarification - though a desire is expressed to overcome whatever the issues are and to eventually try to get it done -- but it is off the table until further notice.

I suspect a major issue is the lack of Japanese aircraft technical data to the level that they feel they need relative to the other aircraft they have done or can do (I mean that has already been indicated by the developers long ago, and I don't believe they have overcome this). The data that they want is just not available like it is for other aircraft - and indeed, admist all the postulations of where they were going next in September, Jason chimed in among the Pacific furry without letting the Normandy plan out of the bag and made the proclamation in part of his reply that some planes they would never be able to do because they don't have the technical data to do them. That seemed to go over some peoples heads (and some of the Pacific diehards simply refused to believe it that that could have actually been alluding to the Japanese aircraft). We will have to see whether Jason comes back and further clarifies exactly what the issues were regarding Pacific - but I strongly suspect this played a major role. Also there could be engine problems - as there are right now with creating masses of 4-engine bombers (they simply can't do it right now with the current engine) - and it may be that they simply can't do the carriers or whatever properly...who knows(?).

Bottom line is we had a situation where some wrongly believed that the Pacific was a done deal - that has at least in part been clarified. We will have to see hopefully exactly what the issues are.

I would like to see them go there too eventually. But I am also a big WW2 enthusiast and am grateful for pretty much any WW2 theater and aircraft set we get, tbh - and like you said, it is not like there are multiple other choices available and we are indeed in a very small niche market. The BoX series is pretty good, but I like the fact that it is continually improving (all modules) -- and add in the fact that they now have hired on a dedicated AI programmer (which was a big weak point to the SP game). I appreciate what we can get and I will continue to support them and enjoy my time flying within the series smile

Last edited by Redwolf; 12/07/19 06:20 PM.

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#4499845 - 12/10/19 04:02 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Looking greatly forward to IL-2 Battle of Normandy, ESPECIALLY the addition of the ARADO AR-234 Jet- Engined Reconisience Bomber aircraft. The AR-234 B-2 & C-2 were the most advanced Bomber Aircraft of the late WW2 Era, with no counterpart in ANY other Air Force in the World at that time 1944,45.


Kevin John Simon
#4499848 - 12/10/19 04:19 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Looking greatly forward to IL-2 Battle of Normandy, ESPECIALLY the addition of the ARADO AR-234 Jet- Engined Reconisience Bomber aircraft. The AR-234 B-2 & C-2 were the most advanced Bomber Aircraft of the late WW2 Era, with no counterpart in ANY other Air Force in the World at that time 1944,45. I just Pre-Paid for BATTLE OF NORMANDY.....well worth Every $$$.


Kevin John Simon
#4499849 - 12/10/19 04:24 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Master]  
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Originally Posted by Master
Well that settles whether or not Im going to buy Normandy.... hell no.

I really really really want to not hate their company but it just feels like every time I start to trust them they just dig the knife in deeper. I know its not exactly fair but with all they've done it's hard to give them any piece of trust. I mean ill probably end up buying Normandy. It's not like there is a lot of development of competing games out there but jeeezzzzz....


the way I understand it - they needed first to increase the size of the map that their engine could handle before adding further complexity like a working WWII carrier ops AI.

I hope they merge the Boddenplate and Normandy maps.

#4499850 - 12/10/19 04:34 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I'm hoping for improved bad weather simulation and a more realistic and varied ground environment so that I can recreate "rhubarbs" out of England into occupied Europe in a Spit IX. wink


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4499865 - 12/10/19 05:49 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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better 3D clouds and many more objects on the map would not be bad either

#4500277 - 12/14/19 08:50 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Definitely looking forward to Normandy . . . but I really do not get this whole "we cannot do the Pacific" thing. If the lack of carry-over is a problem, start with something in the CBI (like a Flying Tigers sim), where you can re-use at least a little of the work on P-40s, Hurricanes, and Spits. If the lack of technical data is the problem, fudge and interpolate to fill in the blanks. Even if it is not exactly an apples to apples comparison, I cannot help but note that previous generation sims managed to include believable versions of most Japanese aircraft. Even a slightly fudged B5N2 or TBD-1 is better than none at all; if the details no longer exist, who is to say your interpolation is wrong.

#4500282 - 12/14/19 10:26 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
Definitely looking forward to Normandy . . . but I really do not get this whole "we cannot do the Pacific" thing. If the lack of carry-over is a problem, start with something in the CBI (like a Flying Tigers sim), where you can re-use at least a little of the work on P-40s, Hurricanes, and Spits. If the lack of technical data is the problem, fudge and interpolate to fill in the blanks. Even if it is not exactly an apples to apples comparison, I cannot help but note that previous generation sims managed to include believable versions of most Japanese aircraft. Even a slightly fudged B5N2 or TBD-1 is better than none at all; if the details no longer exist, who is to say your interpolation is wrong.



Exactly.

It isn't as if everyone thinks they've got all the current flight models 100% correct. I've never cared that a FM be 100%, so long as the relative strengths and weaknesses of opposing aircraft were represented well enough that you must use real world tactics to succeed.


“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” - 2 Chronicles 7:14
#4500346 - 12/14/19 07:44 PM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I suspect though, that it is even more than just the technical data on the Japanese aircraft - I suspect engine issues with various things as well. I mean, right now as we speak, the time acceleration doesn't even work (or work very well at all) - and that is becoming more and more of an issue (especially with Bodenplatte and the long distances of numerous missions) - there seems to be numerous "limits" to what the current engine in its current state can do (and I think this is starting to become more and more of an issue) - ultimately it is better suited for small tactical engagements over shorter distances than anything else at this point. We just have to trust Jason that they are doing their very best and what is feasible given the conditions as they work to improve things (we don't have all the information that the developers do, nor know exactly what their situation is regarding various things --- nor do we know actually how close to the edge they are regarding being able to continue from 1C, for that matter).

All that being said, I would agree with the above - I am okay with a relative good "guess" or approximation for Japanese aircraft. But I am also going to add, it probably makes more sense financially in the big scheme of things to do the Normandy route right now (as they could utilize that map for various other campaigns down the road (ultimately less cost), and it does create a more well-rounded Western European experience (though I myself would have preferred Italy - I completely see and thought Normandy makes better sense in the overall picture right now).

Anyways, I wish the team best of luck regarding improving the engine/AI/etc as they move forward -- and I am just going to trust with the knowledge and information they (which we don't) that the right calls are being made -- I don't pretend to be a programmer and have perfect knowledge of the situation.
I am grateful for what we got, but here's hoping it can get better and that this series is able to live on.
smile


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#4504296 - 01/20/20 10:08 AM Re: Next Up: "BATTLE OF NORMANDY" [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
.... That sucks.


No waterplanes or torpedoes? That'll suck too ..

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