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#4497942 - 11/22/19 04:07 PM TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings  
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HarryH Offline
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All,

As part of my ongoing efforts to improve the overall performance of WOFF on my system, I have been experimenting with TrackIR priority and affinity settings (see my TrackIR guide in the FAQ section for further background).

KKSnowbear and Robert Wiggins have cautioned me about setting the TrackIR .exe to real time priority. However, I have done so and am not seeing any negative results. Quite the opposite in fact, which is why I would like to pursue this topic further. I want to leave it enabled but I don't want to "destroy" my PC in the process. I am using the Project Lasso application to enable this, which includes their own "intelligent" process handler called ProBalance. I have TrackIR running on cores 1-5 and the CFS3.exe running on core 0 only.

I have researched this topic, but would welcome informed contributions from others that are interested . Have you tried it? Have you had a bad experience with it? What else do you know about it? It seems like this could be a very bad idea with certain PCs that have limited processing capabilities, but I'm struggling to find hard facts that would put me off using it as I have it setup now.

#4497949 - 11/22/19 04:35 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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The facts are there, and you've been made aware. You can't say "I can't find hard facts that would put me off" because that's invoking individual preference, not whether something is a good or bad idea.

There are plenty of reputable sources who can tell you it's a bad idea and give reasons why. The only way this doesn't "put you off" is if you're making a conscious choice to ignore considerable, reputable evidence because it doesn't agree with you.

Anyone can decide to ignore good advice. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 11/22/19 04:36 PM.
#4497952 - 11/22/19 04:40 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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Panama Red Offline
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thumbsup+++++


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#4497958 - 11/22/19 05:00 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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Stache Online content
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My Experience.

Well, a while back I had been using the shortcut method to set affinity.
For a while now I had stopped using that shortcut.

A while after you posted, after researching and noting the concerns posted, forewarned about possible issues, I tried your suggestions including real time - and immediately started having random crashes in WOFF.
I immediately stopped using real time and am using the affinity shortcut.
So far so good.

I would not consider my system as one with having "limited processing capabilities"

At this time I have not formed an opinion as to if setting affinity helps at all.

Regards,


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4497961 - 11/22/19 05:16 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: kksnowbear]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
The facts are there, and you've been made aware. You can't say "I can't find hard facts that would put me off" because that's invoking individual preference, not whether something is a good or bad idea.

There are plenty of reputable sources who can tell you it's a bad idea and give reasons why. The only way this doesn't "put you off" is if you're making a conscious choice to ignore considerable, reputable evidence because it doesn't agree with you.

Anyone can decide to ignore good advice. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.


Thanks. The two links you provided: the first one dates back to 2010. CPUs have moved on somewhat in the last 9 years, so what may have been a big and reasonable concern back then might not be quite as concerning today, perhaps? The second link dates from last year and says this...

"You should almost never use REALTIME_PRIORITY_CLASS, because this interrupts system threads that manage mouse input, keyboard input, and background disk flushing. This class can be appropriate for applications that "talk" directly to hardware or that perform brief tasks that should have limited interruptions."

It doesn't seem to suggest my CPU will catch fire or anything. So, as things stand, I choose to ignore the advice (I only use this when flying WOFF. I shut the TIR client down when I'm not). However, I will add a cautionary note to my TrackIR guide, "use at your own risk".

KKSnowbear, you have chosen to dispose of your game license and I think that's a pity. PE is incrementally better than previous versions. It's never looked prettier or run better than it does today and the cloud edge flickering is completely gone, and with the optimizations I've made, so are the stutters. Don't believe me? No problem.

I will continue to push forward with my optimizations. I have a working beta of a cloud popping reduction mod which people are having good success with. I am so very close to that Holy Grail I talked about last year smile

Here it is in action.


#4497974 - 11/22/19 06:24 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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It's not a question of whether I believe you. The stutter can still be reproduced on your system, regardless of your modifications - if the test is performed properly.

As for the CPUs being different; that's not what's at issue. Granted, the hardware may have come a long way - but what's at issue is the Operating System and the way it handles these priorities. It's no secret Windows is a mess, and it's often a wonder it has no more problems than it does. If you want to argue with that, go right ahead I'd suggest it's a fools errand. There's a ton of info to show you'd be wrong.

And the people who are (trying to) tell you not to use real-time priority are generally giving you that advice from a perspective that is much more knowledgeable and experienced than your (relatively minor) experiences thus far can possibly reflect.

No one said anything about a CPU catching fire. The point is it introduces system instability (and what-do-we-know, look at what Stache posted just above).

But hey, no worries, you go right ahead and argue with all these very knowledgeable, reputable sources (including the producer of the Operation System itself). What do they know?

#4498026 - 11/23/19 12:59 AM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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HarryH, for what it's worth, I have had a lot of crash issues experimenting with RealTime Priority over the years, with different MS operating systems and different computers. I do not recommend it at all.

Also, I don't mean to play Devil's Advocate here, but as you've posted the above video for inspection, I must point out that you not only have major cloud popping at the end of it, you have micro stutters intermittently throughout. I'm afraid you are not quite "Stutter Free" yet, and your cloud popping beta still has a little way to go. But I honestly applaud your continuing efforts. Keep at it.

Lou

.


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#4498031 - 11/23/19 01:31 AM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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Lou, keep in mind there's a significant limit to what can be captured in a video without using a secondary machine. Simply put, I'm running at 72FPS and Nvidia Shadowplay captures at 60FPS max. Then Youtube has it's encoding scheme that butcher things even further. I'm sure you can appreciate that a Youtube video can only approximate what I actually experience in front of my monitor.

The cloud popping is not entirely fixed but it is significantly reduced. Buckeye Bob and I may collaborate further on that effort. Meantime the stutters are gone and I've no reason to lie about that. Like I said, I'm getting really close to my Holy Grail, and even if I can't improve things any further, I'll be happy as a clam smile

#4498032 - 11/23/19 01:39 AM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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Fair enough about the vid capture and YouTube degradation, Harry. And as I say, I applaud your continuing efforts. Anything that can be done to further improve WOFF is always appreciated.

.

#4498035 - 11/23/19 01:57 AM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

Fair enough about the vid capture and YouTube degradation, Harry. And as I say, I applaud your continuing efforts. Anything that can be done to further improve WOFF is always appreciated.

.


Thank you Lou.

I don't come here to brag, I come here to try to help the community with the tech stuff and to enjoy the camaraderie that exists (but for one exception), in the same way you provide your wonderful gongs to the campaigns, your excellent maps, your amazing graphics mods and your help and advice to new pilots.

If you PM me your cell phone # I'll send you an i-message link to a video that I took with my iPhone. It gets much closer to the reality of my current WOFF experience than any Youtube video. Sadly it means turning over the flying to the AI while I do my best to hold the phone still and move my head along with the AI's moves. Very challenging that is smile

#4498085 - 11/23/19 03:08 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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Polovski Offline
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Thanks HarryH for helping others with things to try. If Microsoft is one of the companies recommending something regarding Windows 10, personally I'd ignore it and read other opinions only. They have made a mess of several OS, even in Windows 10, several times, in the last few years re-introduced bugs they fixed in previous patches - ground hog day. Imagine flying to Mars with Windows 10 controlling your life support.

If HarryH says stutters are gone for him then that's great. kksnowbear can you tone it down please telling people they are wrong over and over. You make a point fine, but don't need to keep repeating it.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4498104 - 11/23/19 07:26 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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Panama Red Offline
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Maybe he just wants to follow "Uncle Al's" route ??????????????


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4498106 - 11/23/19 08:19 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: Stache]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by Stache
My Experience.

Well, a while back I had been using the shortcut method to set affinity.
For a while now I had stopped using that shortcut.

A while after you posted, after researching and noting the concerns posted, forewarned about possible issues, I tried your suggestions including real time - and immediately started having random crashes in WOFF.
I immediately stopped using real time and am using the affinity shortcut.
So far so good.

I would not consider my system as one with having "limited processing capabilities"

At this time I have not formed an opinion as to if setting affinity helps at all.

Regards,



Did you make sure to disable TrackIR's affinity on core0? WOFF may well crash if you don't do that.

#4498108 - 11/23/19 08:32 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: Polovski]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by Polovski
Thanks HarryH for helping others with things to try. If Microsoft is one of the companies recommending something regarding Windows 10, personally I'd ignore it and read other opinions only. They have made a mess of several OS, even in Windows 10, several times, in the last few years re-introduced bugs they fixed in previous patches - ground hog day. Imagine flying to Mars with Windows 10 controlling your life support.

If HarryH says stutters are gone for him then that's great. kksnowbear can you tone it down please telling people they are wrong over and over. You make a point fine, but don't need to keep repeating it.



Thanks, Pol. I'm seeing no issues with it on my system. FWIW Natural Point tell me their process uses 3 separate threads (receive / process / send) and is very lightweight in terms of CPU load when running in the background. Whilst they also caution against running it in realtime, I don't see how it can cause problems, so long as you keep it off of core0 where the CFS3.exe lives and have at least 3 cores enabled for it. As always, your mileage will vary, and if you're afraid bad things might happen, then fine, don't enable it. But, this is a very old game engine, so if you don't roll up your sleeves and experiment, you'll be stuck with its limitations. Perfectly fine if you're more comfortable that way. Or you could simply sell the game and continue to complain about it.

#4498118 - 11/23/19 11:51 PM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
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Deejan Offline
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Thank you for all your efforts HarryH! Very much appreciated!
Cheers!

Deej

#4498120 - 11/24/19 12:19 AM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: Deejan]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by Deejan
Thank you for all your efforts HarryH! Very much appreciated!
Cheers!

Deej


You're welcome, Deej!

#4498123 - 11/24/19 12:48 AM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: HarryH]  
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 732
Stache Online content
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Stache  Online Content
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Posts: 732
Michigan, USA
Originally Posted by HarryH
Originally Posted by Stache
My Experience.

Well, a while back I had been using the shortcut method to set affinity.
For a while now I had stopped using that shortcut.

A while after you posted, after researching and noting the concerns posted, forewarned about possible issues, I tried your suggestions including real time - and immediately started having random crashes in WOFF.
I immediately stopped using real time and am using the affinity shortcut.
So far so good.

I would not consider my system as one with having "limited processing capabilities"

At this time I have not formed an opinion as to if setting affinity helps at all.

Regards,



Did you make sure to disable TrackIR's affinity on core0? WOFF may well crash if you don't do that.


Hi Harry, I believed I was following your notes, which includes changing Affinity and setting real-time.
Its been a while now.
I did not take notes when I was doing the process - I made changes - had issues - tried settings other than real time - had issues - put the system back to default.
Perhaps I will give it another go.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4498134 - 11/24/19 03:16 AM Re: TrackIR Affinity and Priority Settings [Re: Stache]  
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HarryH Offline
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HarryH  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,223
Originally Posted by Stache
Originally Posted by HarryH
Originally Posted by Stache
My Experience.

Well, a while back I had been using the shortcut method to set affinity.
For a while now I had stopped using that shortcut.

A while after you posted, after researching and noting the concerns posted, forewarned about possible issues, I tried your suggestions including real time - and immediately started having random crashes in WOFF.
I immediately stopped using real time and am using the affinity shortcut.
So far so good.

I would not consider my system as one with having "limited processing capabilities"

At this time I have not formed an opinion as to if setting affinity helps at all.

Regards,



Did you make sure to disable TrackIR's affinity on core0? WOFF may well crash if you don't do that.


Hi Harry, I believed I was following your notes, which includes changing Affinity and setting real-time.
Its been a while now.
I did not take notes when I was doing the process - I made changes - had issues - tried settings other than real time - had issues - put the system back to default.
Perhaps I will give it another go.





Well, no CPU disasters here and I run TrackIR.exe in realtime every time I play. I have Core Temp running on a separate monitor and there's no increase in CPU temp while WOFF is running. I keep experimenting. M current / latest Lasso settings are my best yet. Game running on CPU 0 thru 2, high priority, TrackIR running on CPU 3 thru 5, realtime priority plus I/O priority high. It's a pretty sweet combo, for me at least. smile


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