Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#4497972 - 11/22/19 06:18 PM Bernard Montgomery  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
Miami, FL USA
All I could think of while I watched this video is just how much the actor who portrayed Montgomery in the film "Patton" absolutely and perfectly nailed his speech mannerisms and cadence. smile




“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4497975 - 11/22/19 06:27 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,305
Chucky Online sosad
Veteran
Chucky  Online Sosad
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,305
UK
That was Michael Bates. You might remember him from 'A Clockwork Orange' (he was the chief prison guard) or the sit-com 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum'.


“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
#4498019 - 11/23/19 12:03 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: Chucky]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 18,465
Ajay Offline
newbie
Ajay  Offline
newbie
Veteran

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 18,465
Brisbane OZ
Originally Posted by Chucky
That was Michael Bates. You might remember him from 'A Clockwork Orange' (he was the chief prison guard) or the sit-com 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum'.


Wow, i remember my old man used to watch It ain' half hot mum. Feels like a lifetime ago.


My il2 page
Seelowe Campaign
Cliffs of Dover page
CloD
My Models
Tanks/Planes/Ships


#4498028 - 11/23/19 01:06 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,310
Tom_Weiss Online content
>>> P3Dv4+Il-2 = !!!
Tom_Weiss  Online Content
>>> P3Dv4+Il-2 = !!!
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,310
3rd Planet, Sun
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
All I could think of while I watched this video is just how much the actor who portrayed Montgomery in the film "Patton" absolutely and perfectly nailed his speech mannerisms and cadence. smile




Jodl was executed as a war criminal in Nuremberg - after signing he said that he expected that "the Victor would treat Germany with generosity" ! that after they prolonged the war needlessly - a bunch of arrogant bastards ... I can imagine what the Allied officers felt watching them.

#4498061 - 11/23/19 10:37 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,962
BD-123 Offline
Old Scroat
BD-123  Offline
Old Scroat
Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,962
Naunton Beauchamp Worcestershi...
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
All I could think of while I watched this video is just how much the actor who portrayed Montgomery in the film "Patton" absolutely and perfectly nailed his speech mannerisms and cadence. smile

Except as often the case of Brits in Hollywood movies, portrayed as a ineffectual buffoon. A martinet and intolerant loner, but a cautious general who put the care and survivability of his men at the top of his strategic priorities.

Michael Bates was somewhat typecast in blustering Regimental sergeant major roles, until he played the 'Bearer' in 'It ain't 'arf 'ot mum", a series which would be considered racist and homophobic today


"Don't mention Cobbaton! I did once, but I think I got a way with it!!"
#4498064 - 11/23/19 11:30 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: BD-123]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,416
33lima Offline
Member
33lima  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,416
Belfast, NI
Originally Posted by BD-123
Michael Bates was somewhat typecast in blustering Regimental sergeant major roles, until he played the 'Bearer' in 'It ain't 'arf 'ot mum", a series which would be considered racist and homophobic today



...O/T, but a role ably parodied superbly by Windsor Davies in the same series, as Battery S'arnt Major 'Shuddup! Williams, the terror of the Concert Party:


#4498072 - 11/23/19 01:35 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,305
Chucky Online sosad
Veteran
Chucky  Online Sosad
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,305
UK
One of the finest sit-coms ever made in my opinion.


“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
#4498165 - 11/24/19 01:34 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: 33lima]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by 33lima
Originally Posted by BD-123
Michael Bates was somewhat typecast in blustering Regimental sergeant major roles, until he played the 'Bearer' in 'It ain't 'arf 'ot mum", a series which would be considered racist and homophobic today



...O/T, but a role ably parodied superbly by Windsor Davies in the same series, as Battery S'arnt Major 'Shuddup! Williams, the terror of the Concert Party:




He seems basically like the British version of Gunnery Sergeant Hartman from Full Metal Jacket. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4498181 - 11/24/19 05:31 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,326
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,326
Orlando, FL
"....he said that he expected that "the Victor would treat Germany with generosity" !"

Yes, well they treated Poland with generosity. And of course, Great Britain. The Soviets, too. And let's not forget how generous they were to the Jews. Arrogance beyond belief.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4498202 - 11/24/19 07:53 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,537
No105_Archie Offline
No105_Archie  Offline

Veteran

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,537
N. Atlantic east of Canada
yes.............and now the people who helped defeat these monsters ( like Bomber Harris ) are being demonised


Archie Smythe

carpe diem
#4498335 - 11/25/19 07:32 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 162
NoFlyBoy Offline
Member
NoFlyBoy  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 162
I can't remember where I read this or heard this or maybe saw it in some documentary. It was a few years ago. Montgomery prolonged the North Africa campaign so he could get the first of 300 brand new Sherman tanks.

He was also difficult to deal with. He gave Eisenhower and Bradley and Patton hell and everything had to be his way or the highway. It was good that Eisenhower was a good diplomat at smoothing difficult relationships.

Also Montgomery is the reason for Market Garden, which should never had been done, but again he needed to have his way or the highway. The fallout of Market Garden among Dutch civilians was brutal. They were starved to death by the Nazis. 4.5 millions Dutch civilians were affected and over 22,000 died of starvation in the Dutch famine of Winter 1944-1945.

Last edited by NoFlyBoy; 11/25/19 07:32 PM.
#4498336 - 11/25/19 08:05 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


Also Montgomery is the reason for Market Garden, which should never had been done, but again he needed to have his way or the highway. .



That's only part of it. The Western allies were under intense political pressure to try and end the war by the end of 1944 and since it was assumed (incorrectly of course) that the German army in the West was totally broken, that a bold attempt should be made to try and achieve that.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4498338 - 11/25/19 08:54 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 8,188
F4UDash4 Offline
Hotshot
F4UDash4  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 8,188
SC
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


Also Montgomery is the reason for Market Garden, which should never had been done, but again he needed to have his way or the highway. .



That's only part of it. The Western allies were under intense political pressure to try and end the war by the end of 1944 and since it was assumed (incorrectly of course) that the German army in the West was totally broken, that a bold attempt should be made to try and achieve that.



I suspect that if Patton's 3rd had received the resources that went into Market Garden that he could have achieved a bit more than what was otherwise the case.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4498342 - 11/25/19 10:27 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 162
NoFlyBoy Offline
Member
NoFlyBoy  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 162
Patton wanted to be the first to get to Berlin but political arrangements were made to let Russia take Berlin.

Hence why Ike told his armies to hold at the river Elbe and not advance east any further.

Imagine if Patton and his army took Berlin and occupied it long before the Russian army got there.

Europe and the world would had turned out different.

Of course that pale in comparison to 3 missteps on the British and French sides, one before WW2 begin and two after WW2 begin.

Britain and France should had stood up to Germany after it invaded Czechoslovakia.

Also there weren't that much of a German army it Czechoslovakia.

It could had been easily defeated by the British and the French.

That would had prevented the war from starting.

Then when Germany invaded Poland, Britain and France had 100 divisions on the French/Germany border.

They should had invaded Germany and the war would had ended there.

Then when the Battle of France begin, the French could stopped the Germany Army at Sedan.

The German Army including its artillery and Panzer division was gridlocked for miles.

A French reconnaissance plane saw it and reported back.

The French and the British should had coordinated everything they had in their air power and send them to totally annihilate the German Army and turn it into a 'highway of hell'.

The war would had ended there too.

#4498349 - 11/25/19 11:42 PM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 8,188
F4UDash4 Offline
Hotshot
F4UDash4  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 8,188
SC
Ike, at the time, preferred that Russian blood be spilt taking Berlin rather than American blood.

I believe he later came to the conclusion that he had made a mistake.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4498378 - 11/26/19 11:03 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,310
Tom_Weiss Online content
>>> P3Dv4+Il-2 = !!!
Tom_Weiss  Online Content
>>> P3Dv4+Il-2 = !!!
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,310
3rd Planet, Sun
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


Also Montgomery is the reason for Market Garden, which should never had been done, but again he needed to have his way or the highway. .



That's only part of it. The Western allies were under intense political pressure to try and end the war by the end of 1944 and since it was assumed (incorrectly of course) that the German army in the West was totally broken, that a bold attempt should be made to try and achieve that.


actually - the German Army in the West was broken - completely broken,

what happened was that the Allies outrun their supply lines and could not advance, that gave the Nazis Wehrmacht time to regroup and having retreated so close to Germany, to resupply and once again put a cohesive defensive line.

that of course resulted in the German Army suffering horrendous casualties as the Allies pummeled their lines of supply and the front line.

The suicidal Nazi refusal to surrender meant that they took more casualties in the last year of WWII than in all the previous years - and for nothing.

an interesting take on why the German Army fought for so long:




#4498379 - 11/26/19 11:29 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Tom_Weiss


an interesting take on why the German Army fought for so long:






I have not watched the video but the simple answer is that the Third Reich was a totalitarian regime so naturally it was going to fight until the the last man or at least until the dictator in charge was dead. Note that Germany only fought for ONE more week after Hitler killed himself.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 11/26/19 11:29 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4498380 - 11/26/19 11:31 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: F4UDash4]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 109,567
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Ike, at the time, preferred that Russian blood be spilt taking Berlin rather than American blood.

I believe he later came to the conclusion that he had made a mistake.


Yup, and this played perfectly into Stalin's hands because Stalin didn't care how many Soviet soldiers he needed to sacrifice as long as he took Berlin.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4498381 - 11/26/19 11:45 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,310
Tom_Weiss Online content
>>> P3Dv4+Il-2 = !!!
Tom_Weiss  Online Content
>>> P3Dv4+Il-2 = !!!
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,310
3rd Planet, Sun
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Tom_Weiss


an interesting take on why the German Army fought for so long:






I have not watched the video but the simple answer is that the Third Reich was a totalitarian regime so naturally it was going to fight until the the last man or at least until the dictator in charge was dead. Note that Germany only fought for ONE more week after Hitler killed himself.


Hitler killed himself because the Soviets were just about to storm his HQ,

Jodl & the rest surrendered for the same reason, they did not want to be killed by the Soviets

Nazi Germany by then was 2/3 occupied by the Allies and it would be a matter of weeks before it was completely occupied.

As for totalitarian regimes fighting until the end, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria all surrendered,

the Nazi ideology embraced by the German people wholeheartedly was the driving reason for why they fought for so long.

#4498454 - 11/27/19 01:10 AM Re: Bernard Montgomery [Re: No105_Archie]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,342
Nixer Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Nixer  Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,342
Living with the Trees
Originally Posted by No105_Archie
yes.............and now the people who helped defeat these monsters ( like Bomber Harris ) are being demonised


Throw in the "horror" of the twin Atomic bombs on Japan and how that is now being portrayed as "genocidal", and you start to see a trend.

Personally, I don't like the "trend".

Oh yeah, Monty; in my opinion, from reading no doubt biased American war histories, he was a pompous self serving ego tripper..

Kinda like every well known General/Admiral in history.


"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Highest Scoring Aces Still Living
by F4UDash4. 12/11/19 02:18 PM
Ghostbusters : Afterlife
by Khai. 12/09/19 02:33 PM
Honey Badger doesn't give a #%&*$#
by Chucky. 12/09/19 01:51 PM
Pin-Up: World of Warships musical
by Sokol1. 12/09/19 01:40 PM
Current state of "Study" sims
by Andy T. 12/09/19 03:32 AM
René Auberjonois was 79
by F4UDash4. 12/09/19 03:23 AM
The movies coming soon thread.
by NoFlyBoy. 12/08/19 09:18 PM
Victoria Falls dead dry
by Red2112. 12/08/19 07:13 PM
Sinking of the Britannic
by KraziKanuK. 12/07/19 11:31 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0