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#4497226 - 11/15/19 07:03 AM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
The difference is very significant in several cases then being spot on in some.
And the fuel consumption frac is the current game setting?

No, the current game consumption fraction is set to 1.0 for all planes.
@orbyxP - good job thumbsup

#4497229 - 11/15/19 07:35 AM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Ah. Right. That was mentioned before.
So the frac number is the recommended change.
Sounds like a plan...

#4497632 - 11/19/19 06:18 AM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Information link added to MOD section here.

#4497643 - 11/19/19 10:14 AM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Updated version 2.0 of Multimod including Realistic fuel consumption mod by orbyxP is available here
Thx to orbyxP. thumbsup

#4497645 - 11/19/19 10:21 AM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Just a heads up but flight time would be calculated using cruise speed not full throttle so the consumption fraction numbers may need to be higher too. Or is that because you believe testing full on (with its higher use of fuel) then the AI using cruise speed gives them some leeway?
If so the consumption is still not historically accurate though.

Each type would need long campaign missions testing with each type.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4497656 - 11/19/19 12:16 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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@JJJ. Thanks for implementing so quick! Downloaded and installed. thumbsup

@Polovski. Hopefully there will be enough of the folks here to use the multimod to test like in an open beta. I believe that my values are closer to historical flight times than the default WOFF. I will search for references, but if you take just an example that the Bristol Scout had either 100% throttle or engine off (like in FAQ & Reference section):

Unmodded WOFF is 6 hrs 17 minutes flight time on 100% throttle, while the mod reduces it to 2 hours. I have a feeling that I will find a flight time of 2 hours closer to being historically accurate in the references.

Also, cruise speed will extend the flight time just like in default WOFF due to less fuel consumption, but again, I believe the extended flight times in the MOD will be closer to history.

Last edited by orbyxP; 11/19/19 12:25 PM.
#4497657 - 11/19/19 12:23 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Nice bit of work orby, the list alone is very handy and the mod is even better. Keep at the testing, it is much appreciated.

.

#4497671 - 11/19/19 02:28 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Dan San Abbott at theaerodrome.com wrote:

Endurance for fighter is based on fuel consumption of the engine at full power at a specific altitude.

Then he goes on to explain...

If you look at the the specification for an engine they give the fuel consumption at so much grams, ounces or lbs per horse power per hour.
For example the 160 Ps (hp) Mercedes D.III data sheets gives the fuel consumption @ 230 grams or 230 / 1000 =.023kg per hour per hour and the oil consumption at 20 grams per Ps(hp)
You are the designer and you want your fighter to have a two hour flight duration at full power, it will require:
Fuel
2hrs x .230kg x 160 ps = 73.6 kg fuel.
Oil
2 hr. x .02 kg x 160 = 6.4 kg. oil generally engineers use 1/10 of the fuel to determine the oil require or in the case 7.2 kg of oil.
The 150 hp Hispano-Suiza Model A engine has a fuel consumption of .52 lbs per hour hour per hp =
150 x .52 = 78 lbs.
Gasoline weighs 7.2 lbs per gallon, 78/ 7.2 = 10.83 gallons or gallons x 4.545 = liters, 10.83 x 4.545 = 49.2 liters per hour.
If the fuel tank capacity is known you can then determine the duration.
The Spad VII DATAFILE on page 24 , gives tha endurance as 1 1/2 hours, by dropping the rpm from 1450 to a cruise rpm of1300 would lower the fuel consumption, horse power and extend the length of duration.

#4497698 - 11/19/19 06:34 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Thank you for these excellent tweaks Orbyx.

Quick question regarding the inclusion of fuel consumption rate into JJJ's multimod ver. 2.0: does it override custom FM tweaks to the xfm files (if custom FMs are installed in JSGME) or only change the fuel consumption rate entry? If necessary, I wlll include Orbyx's fuel consumption numbers in all of my previously tweaked FM files, in a future update (ver. 5.0) of the FM pack. In the meantime, running with a total fuel load of about 70-80% in the main menu in WOFFue/pe, and my FM tweaks, should provide an approximation of Orbyx's fuel consumption tweaks. Great work all round gents' - looking forward to more fuel consumption discoveries.

Von S smile


~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4497700 - 11/19/19 06:47 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Oh great! It’s not enough getting shot at, or bleeding out. Now you also have to worry about running out of fuel even without the tanks being punctured. What’s next? Not being able to do barrel rolls with a full load of bombs? My pilot hates you.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4497702 - 11/19/19 06:57 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: VonS]  
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Originally Posted by VonS
Thank you for these excellent tweaks Orbyx.

Quick question regarding the inclusion of fuel consumption rate into JJJ's multimod ver. 2.0: does it override custom FM tweaks to the xfm files (if custom FMs are installed in JSGME) or only change the fuel consumption rate entry?


Multimod changes only fuel consumption rate values and does not replace/modify /override custom xfm files. That is the main advantage of Multimod over JSGME mod that replaces entire files..

#4497713 - 11/19/19 08:37 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Mm interesting, sounds good orbyxP - if Dan San explained it so, then that's good info.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4497751 - 11/20/19 01:02 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Usually changing such things takes long and good testing and mostly there is a reason why some things are as they are, even though they might be historically not correct. Flying under heavy load, no load etc. As Pol said, I believe, longer flights make up for less traffic. If historically there should be 80 squadrons flying for each side, you might only have 10 or so ingame, depending of your setting. And with some of those 10 you still want the chance to meet them. If they are out on patrol, recon etc. only half the time before returning home, chances to meet them might be much less. But as you said, it is like an open beta.

Maybe you should take a look at the Gotha though how that works out for them. Before that it was calculated for them to make London and coming back just with the last drop of fuel. Reducing that might end up with them crashlanding anywhere during their mission, or simply returning back to base halfway, without even coming close to London.

Cheers

#4497753 - 11/20/19 01:10 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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WOFF's vanilla Gotha was not able to make return trip to London (max flight time 3Hrs). However, with orbyxP fix it seems quite possible, because it changes fuelConsumptionFraction to 0.59 (almost to one half), so Gotha is less thirsty now (flight time increased to 5 Hrs).

#4497754 - 11/20/19 01:24 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Usually they should make it. Also they become lighter after dropping bombs etc. Of course there are some Gotha airfields farther away from the channel and some closer. Some bombing targets are at the far back of London etc. Also if they have to fight on the trip, that costs time and fuel. But you might be right though, that it's sometimes a bit too close to the last drop. It was made to add the problems and fears of the bombercrews.

I made a testflight with a Gotha-raid to Paris with the new mod. And Paris is closer than London. Still they consumed more than 50% before even reaching the outskirts. So maybe worth to make it 0.50 or something. But it was just one test though.

#4497755 - 11/20/19 01:40 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand


Has anyone ever ran out of fuel in this game or even come close?


Sorry, I haven't been paying as much attention as I should and wanted to address this: I have been dropping fuel levels for my whole flight to 70-80% for ages ( seems strange they give me that much power but.. ) I have gotten the low fuel warning from time to time on long escort recon missions...


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4497758 - 11/20/19 01:58 PM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: Creaghorn]  
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Originally Posted by Creaghorn
So maybe worth to make it 0.50 or something. But it was just one test though.


Thank you for your input. I can certainly test 0.50 on my end and let you know how that turned out.

JJJ made it super simple to try out this historical flight MOD by incorporating it into his multimod. I'm hoping that more pilots try out JJJ's multimod and report back their suggestions like you did. Tweaks can always be done to achieve a good balance between historical flight times and the game's mission objectives.

#4497822 - 11/21/19 09:52 AM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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BTW one thing I forgot to mention, when testing include landing, and forming up on those long missions. Those two can take quite some fuel. So making it back to base with a few % fuel left may not be enough if the airfield is busy.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4497826 - 11/21/19 11:15 AM Re: Historical Flight times [Re: orbyxP]  
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Flying for one hour on full throttle is still one hour. No more, no less.

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