Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#4495884 - 11/03/19 10:19 PM My old Albatros project continued (WiP)  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
elephant Offline
Member
elephant  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
Patras-Greece
I had started many many years ago, an Albatros enhancement project.
Meanwhile OBD guys did an Albatros skin overhaul since WOFF was released and on, with many new additions. (a titanic effort by OvS and Paarma).
Even so, there is still room for further improvement, so I took bits and tips from my old templates and addapted them to OBDs default skins.
Here is my first presentation on the enchancements and corrections I did to the early D.III:

1. I added the missing bolts that fasten the upper wing to the fuselage struts.
2. Added the missing rivets to the fuselage, port and starboard (they are in different positions)
3. Changed the factory plackards to the correct Johannisthal ones (they were OAW) and resized to proper scale the wing ones.
4. Added the missing metallic bar on the port wing root
5. Added the rigging istructions sheet to the proper position and scale.
6. Corrected the brightness of the gray metal primer as it was way to light.
7. As a last touch I added a subtle yellowish tint to the upper wing and tailplane due to direct sunlight exposure according to bibliography.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Attached Files D.III WiP 4.jpgD.III WiP 2.jpgD.III WiP 1.jpgShot11-03-19-22-25-22.jpgD.III WiP 3.jpg
Last edited by elephant; 11/03/19 10:30 PM.

WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4495893 - 11/03/19 11:33 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 97
jakethescot1 Offline
Junior Member
jakethescot1  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 97
Good lord, elephant. That's amazing. I'll spend more time outside my plane looking at it than inside flying it.
Beautiful attention to detail.

#4495897 - 11/04/19 12:48 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 491
AceMedic88 Offline
Member
AceMedic88  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 491
Niagara Falls, NY
The detail is unbelievable. Fantastic work.


I got fired as the door man at a sperm bank.
Apparently it's in poor taste to tell leaving customers "Thanks for coming."

Former U.S. Army Medic - SGT.
#4495899 - 11/04/19 12:57 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,268
Robert_Wiggins Online smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Online Smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,268
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Elephant was all this done in a skinning build or directly on the model?

If it was skinning, it's nice to know you had a base template to work with as the detail is so nice and crisp. I have tried the same by converting .dds to PSP but the rendering looses noticible crispness in my opinion.

Nice work.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4495900 - 11/04/19 12:57 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
OvStachel Offline
Member
OvStachel  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
Long Island, NY
Hello Elephant.... I'm sorry, but this will be hard...

First... thanks for making this effort to get the Albs even closer to exact. When I was doing these skins, I did everything possible to get this all as close to historically accurate as I could with a deadline looming... however, as more info and better pictures come to surface, more details can be noted and added. So kudos to locating all the little missing, or incorrect parts I put on. You're changes look nice on my originals.

Next, the hard part... There are MANY variations of this plane in all the skins I did... not only did I go after the look of the Johannisthal factory built D.III's but the specific style of markings, wing cammo patterns, and insignias/markings.. field mods.. etc.. There are, as you know, 3 variations of the plane in the game... but that does not account for all the other stuff I did to breakup the cookie-cutter look of the pilots vs the squadron standard skins.. and that changed between Jastas as well. Some have the rigging sheet in different places... removed... others have different foot holes based on serial # sequences... others have different wing cammo patters again based on serial# sequence, the cowling paint is greenish on some, grey on others to represent the change to the Alb D.V...and possibly a pilots choice. I tossed in hundreds of variables into my skins. I wanted as little similarity as possible in my work. As you go through this, if you really want to, keep this in mind.

Also... and a big thing to consider... making copies from the 1st generation copies that I made of each for the game (meaning ALL of my skins are directly from my main templates) will degrade the over-all look of the skins. So honestly... I don't really want that for the game. If you cannot make them as hi-res as the originals... please refrain from posting them.... or post them with the opportunity to fall back to the originals like a JSGME Mod... or something that doesn't permanently over-write my work.

I'm sorry... as I have been asked this before and have replied... it took me YEARS to make the skins for the Albs... and all other planes I did. The templates themselves would take me at least 2 months of research and design as I did everything from scratch. I really don't want to loose ANY quality in any of them as you will notice it in the game. Making copies of copies of copies will exponentially degrade the details of the originals.

You can see that with the 'yellowing; that has been applied, it changed the look of the plane.. which is not what I wanted for my work... If I did... I would have done it myself. Some wing sets actually have this already done...

So, to sum this up as nicely as I can...and this is the HARDEST part... and believe me, it's hard for me to be like this... unless you plan on making all new skins from scratch... please do not alter mine.. and repost as an "enhancement"... effectively as you compress the file into .DDS form, you're degrading "our" work. I don't mind them being in a mod than can be added and removed, but definitely not permanently over-written. I want the users to know I did not add -in the details you did, and I want them to have the choice to fall-back if they so decide to . So yes, continue the project as you wanted... please give credit to myself and Paarma (if he gave you permission to do this) respectively, and keep working at it.

Thanks!

OvS


The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4495901 - 11/04/19 01:02 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
OvStachel Offline
Member
OvStachel  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
Long Island, NY
No... it's not. I won't be giving out any templates. As I explained above...

I'm sorry, and I do hate sounding like this.

Last edited by OvStachel; 11/04/19 01:30 AM.

The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4495922 - 11/04/19 10:04 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
elephant Offline
Member
elephant  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
Patras-Greece
I understand, your points James...
My intention was to add to your work not to arrogate.
I stated this in the begining of my post and IMHO, I treated your work with respect.
The minor changes (additions - corrections) I did are based on historical documentation, but...
since you believe that working not from the original templates is deminishing your work, I have to step back.


WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4495926 - 11/04/19 10:13 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 186
Dornil Offline
Member
Dornil  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 186
Are you planning to skin D.II as well? Its default skins are quite bad - worse than those of D.I.

#4495935 - 11/04/19 12:16 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,268
Robert_Wiggins Online smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Online Smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,268
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Dornil I think Ovstachel's comments still apply. I Don't see how it is possible to improve on the skins without the approval of the original skinners.

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 11/04/19 12:17 PM.

(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4496046 - 11/05/19 02:05 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
OvStachel Offline
Member
OvStachel  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 604
Long Island, NY
A few years back Polovski had asked me to take on a revamping of the D.II as the D.I was being introduced and had a much more detailed look to the skins. At the time I felt it wasn't right because Makai had put a ton of effort into the project and I completely respected that. I do agree that so many years have passed and it would be worth looking into at this point. As I revamped all my OAW skins because of the same issue, it looks like the time is right to refresh the D.II and possible the Pfalz D.IIIa.

I'll ask him and effectively leave it up to them to decide. It's not easy to step in and replace someone's work when you personally know how much effort they put into it. I had the amazing pleasure of meeting Makai face-to-face and we exchanged techniques and stories over dinner and a great weekend. If anyone should do this, I'm thinking it should be me.

As for my skins and why I feel as I do... I never made the templates to be distributed, not purposely, it's just the way I work. Unlike what you get with the other WWI game, our skins work different. We don't use decals, or standard parts that the campaign adds to the squadron. Each skin is made individually. Each skin is done on a one set basis. That's why you see what you see...meaning Aces like Voss who transfer from Jasta to Jasta. He adds colors from each Jasta, and you see that. It's NOT the same skin copied over. They are all different. Believe me...if I did put out any of my templates, it would take months to figure them out. I even have trouble going back in when I want to make my own personal skins...and I made the #%&*$# templates!! 🙄🙄

The same goes for all planes I did. There was no basic click on and off template that I used. I didn't want to be that simple.

Again... You can make skins... But leave my name in the skins and they need to be able to be swapped out by the user. I don't want our product altered. What you paid for is what you have... A game made with passion and attention to detail on all levels. If I missed a few changes, or objects... Well.. I did over 2000 skins... If not more. Cut me a little slack. Lol

Thanks. 😄

Last edited by OvStachel; 11/05/19 02:07 AM.

The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4496060 - 11/05/19 06:04 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,528
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,528
High over the Front
Any, and all of your work, is greatly appreciated OvS.

#4496263 - 11/06/19 11:35 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
elephant Offline
Member
elephant  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
Patras-Greece
The work of OBD skinners is titanic! (as I've already stated in my first post)
They are superb both technically and aesthetically!
I kept the fine tunning of the default Albatros skins (by OvStachel and Paarma)
My intention is to elevate their excellent work in terms of (hardcore screwy) historical accuracy.

The D.III early (Johannisthal) got a new detailed footstep and missing draining caps on the underside of the fuselage.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Here are the changes, corrections, additions, fine tunning I've done, so far, on the defauld Albatros D.V (Johannisthal)
(actually all the early D.IIIs and D.Vs were built in Johannisthal Werke)

1. I added the missing bolts that fasten the upper wing to the fuselage struts. (as on the D.III)
2. Added the missing rivets on the fuselage (port and starboard) for the atachment of the cockpit panels.
3. Changed the factory plackards to the correct Johannisthal ones (they were OAW) and resized to proper scale the wing ones.
4. Added the missing metallic bar (footstep?) on the port wing root and added a missing rigging base.
5. Reposed the "nicht auftreten" stencils to the correct historical position (on the leadinng edges of the root of the lower wings)
6. Reposed the starboard upper wing hakencross to the correct position for Johannisthal.
7. Added a metallic foot on the reinforcement braces of the wing struts (retrofitted on the D.V)
7. Added the missing metallic chute for the ailleron control wires on the center of upper wing cut.
This last one is still on the works as there is too much warping involved, missalignements ect.
I haven't desided how to procced with this (I'm not happy with the result) I have to experiment more.
IMO it should be treated via 3d work just like the radiator attachement (looks ugly in comparison)
Any takers?
Finally a tried on a wooden landinng gear plane from an old template I was working alongside Olham.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]




Attached Files Shot11-06-19-17-35-16.jpgShot11-06-19-17-34-43.jpgShot11-04-19-23-25-57.jpgShot11-05-19-00-01-58.jpgShot11-04-19-23-26-28.jpgShot11-04-19-23-28-42.jpgShot11-04-19-23-33-45.jpgShot11-05-19-19-46-17.jpg
Last edited by elephant; 11/07/19 12:19 AM.

WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4496280 - 11/07/19 01:26 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,268
Robert_Wiggins Online smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Online Smile
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,268
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Elephant you have put a lot of work into her. As you have stated there is only so much you can do where 3D parts should be. Alignment issue!!! I've had a taste of that!! Nasty stuff to skin (Trial and error)!!!

She looks good mate.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
Pwr Sup: OCZ, GameXStream,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4496299 - 11/07/19 07:32 AM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
elephant Offline
Member
elephant  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
Patras-Greece
Here is how the real thing looked.
The control cables should be shifted closer to the edge of the wing passing to the fuselage through this one sided opening
(check reference pics below)
Upper wing metal plate, cables and hood opening

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4496510 - 11/08/19 04:18 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
elephant Offline
Member
elephant  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
Patras-Greece
I've been workig on some cockpits for all the Albatros revising the Mod made by Olham many years ago.
Here is a preview of the cockpit for the D.III (Johannisthal)
Uses the same primer colour for the metallic parts as the skin outside (engine hood, struts. ect)
It's not so worn out as the default one (which is too much IMO) and still blends nicely with the plane skin from the external view also
(Olham's was way too clean and bright)

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4496628 - 11/09/19 02:39 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 491
AceMedic88 Offline
Member
AceMedic88  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 491
Niagara Falls, NY
Looking at the pictures, was there a time when the OFF crates had a rear-view mirror? I thought there was.


I got fired as the door man at a sperm bank.
Apparently it's in poor taste to tell leaving customers "Thanks for coming."

Former U.S. Army Medic - SGT.
#4496631 - 11/09/19 03:19 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 707
CaptSopwith Offline
Barmy WingNut
CaptSopwith  Offline
Barmy WingNut
Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 707
United States
AceMedic88, they did. I remember seeing them on some Nieuport types in earlier versions - I want to say the Pfalz DIII had one as well.

#4496635 - 11/09/19 04:01 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
elephant Offline
Member
elephant  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
Patras-Greece


WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4496652 - 11/09/19 06:21 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 491
AceMedic88 Offline
Member
AceMedic88  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 491
Niagara Falls, NY
I knew I wasn't going crazy. The one photograph reminded me of that. Wonder why they went away.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Good work so far.


I got fired as the door man at a sperm bank.
Apparently it's in poor taste to tell leaving customers "Thanks for coming."

Former U.S. Army Medic - SGT.
#4496967 - 11/12/19 04:43 PM Re: My old Albatros project continued (WiP) [Re: elephant]  
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
elephant Offline
Member
elephant  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,237
Patras-Greece
Here is a new update of my project.
I was struggling a lot foryears about the depiction of the gray primer on metal parts and there is so much debate on this mater...
I some photos it looks light, in others darker, taking into consideration the different lighting condition of the photos and furthermore the different film and photographic proccesing methods of the period it turns mindblowing!
I was wathcing a Kermit Weeks video on YouTube flying the Albatros D.II and focused on the primer colour and how it looked under different lighting conditions and gave me the same impression as in the period pics. Sometimes it looked grayish, other times brownish, other greenish!/I remembered that Coloman Mayhofer had used a similar colour and went into my picture collection to check it out... (I was right BTW) I alsoI bumped on these pics (attached below) of Albatros relics with primed metal parts.

[Linked Image]

I decided to use this colour for the metal parts on the modified OBD Albatros skins (by OvS and Paarma) project, I'm presenting here.
Here is how the Jasta 29 Aces look with my detailing layers over OvS's stock skins (for the Capmaign I'm currently playing)

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]













Attached Files Albatros primer.jpgShot11-12-19-13-16-47.jpgShot11-12-19-13-17-34.jpgShot11-12-19-14-41-03.jpgShot11-12-19-15-06-15.jpgShot11-12-19-15-06-48.jpgShot11-12-19-15-18-38.jpgShot11-12-19-15-17-27.jpgShot11-12-19-15-26-09.jpg
Last edited by elephant; 11/12/19 05:01 PM.

WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Polovski 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Best Thing I've Seen Today
by F4UDash4. 04/07/20 11:32 PM
A glimmer of Hope...
by Nixer. 04/07/20 07:19 PM
RIP--James Drury--the Virginian
by Forward Observer. 04/07/20 12:43 AM
HMAS Otama in 1999
by Mad Max. 04/06/20 11:24 PM
Metro Exodus
by PanzerMeyer. 04/06/20 11:53 AM
Jaws actress dies of Coronavirus at 91.
by NoFlyBoy. 04/06/20 01:34 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0