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#4496433 - 11/08/19 06:45 AM Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon  
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So many reasons for you all to not bother reading this post. I'm venting my spleen from disappointment. It's a personal catharsis.

I watched the first season of Amazon's Jack Ryan, and found it entertaining, occasionally even riveting writing. And this season... well, let me first declare: spoilers ahead.

Sure, TV writing is full of inaccuracies, short cuts, wishful thinking, projectionism, idealism, and plain ignoring reality. But this particular TV show was supposed to be for me to enjoy. And as a crotchety middle aged man I couldn't stand it. The writing of the political situation in Venezuela was tolerable at first from a: okay, don't describe the "real" people perspective. But the writing of replacement characters for the president, general, enforcer, political opponent, and even the mercenary was beyond disappointing. I found it unrealistic. Unbelievable is perhaps a better description. No way would any of the personal interactions between the various characters have played out that way. And then the foolish one-man-island Jack Ryan doing things repeatedly on his own... it didn't fit the character I once knew and loved. I don't blame the acting, it was exactly what one would expect with the dialog. But the dialog often didn't make sense or at least seem remotely likely.

My boys watched bits and pieces of the last episode with me. They cringed at the constant F bombs. They made the comment was that "F" wasn't like salt, which when spread around makes things better. It just felt like high school without any adults in the room, and added no value at all to the story or the believability of the anger of the characters. (Particularly the ambassador).

I know writers target the almighty dollar and viewer eyeballs. But if you watched the first season of "Jack Ryan" and found it intriguing, I hate to suggest it but I think you'll be severely disappointed in the direction they took with EVERY SINGLE character.

And don't get me started on satellite-based Flash-LIDAR. This started as an interesting premise of mystery, and they wasted it. The satellite launch became unimportant in the end. Instead it turned into an opportunity for the writers to:

1. Pay lip-service to American meddling in South American elections
2. Pretend the 'good guy' Americans were NOT meddling in the election
3. Actually set up the Americans to completely meddle
... and particularly by the main character. As an act of vindictive 'justice', sort of.
4. Show that the writers think that American politicians are the source of evil. Because they partnered with the 'evil-bad' man president to make money from a venture-capital move into mining? That has no moral good or bad attached to it? What????

The last episode projected it's ending a long way out. And it was painful watching to get there. I'm so disappointed, kept hoping for a twist in character development that would make things okay. I'm not watching anything these writers put out again. Someone at Amazon thought it was good and green-lit the production. They ought to be reprimanded. That was abysmal.

vent over. My apologies.

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#4496438 - 11/08/19 08:59 AM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Regardless, I suspect the series will continue to do well for Amazon, and will be followed by a third season.

#4496448 - 11/08/19 11:10 AM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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I've only read the beginning of the OP, I've just started watching this season myself.

I was immediately hit by the "inverse reality" of portraying the Venezuelan bad guy leader as right wing and his opponent / savior of the people as left wing.

Of course I would not have expected Holly-leftist-wood to ever depict the reality of Venezuela.

One eye rolling line I noticed last night from Ryan (paraphrased) "It doesn't make sense that leftist rebel group would be involved in the attack, they have no beef with the United States! " LOL


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4496450 - 11/08/19 11:23 AM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Thank you for that post jroc and now I am 100% absolutely not interested in seeing this Amazon series. You told me more than enough info.


To be brutally honest, the ONLY Tom Clancy stuff I have cared for either on the big screen or on TV is "Hunt for Red October". To me that is an absolute classic and it's also the only Clancy film I have on bluray and have watched countless times and can quote from it with no effort.


Clear and Present Danger, Patriot Games, Sum of all Fears all ranged from mediocre (ie forgettable) to terrible for me. I watched each of those films ONCE and felt no motivation whatsoever to watch them a second time.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 11/08/19 11:25 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4496461 - 11/08/19 11:51 AM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Jroc, I will second that motion.


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#4496467 - 11/08/19 12:26 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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I looked up the shows Twitter page (everything must have its on Twitter page today) and whereas most of the comments are gushing with praise there are more than a few that point out the obvious "flipped script"


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4496469 - 11/08/19 12:28 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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I forgot to mention that "Jack Ryan" movie with Chris Pine from 2014. The reviews for that were so bad I didn't even bother watching it on cable.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4496472 - 11/08/19 01:35 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Didn’t read the entire post...thanks for the spoiler warning!
We loved the first season. With two left in the new one, I agree it isn’t as good. I’m fine with this being original stuff as long as it’s done well, like S1 was. This one, clearly at least slightly inspired by C&PD, just goes too far even from their own work last season with the character.
Personally, I love the main three movies, even though C&PD is such a complete re-write of my favorite book. At this point, they’re gaining a nostalgic feel like the old Bond movies, making them easily still watchable. Haven’t bothered with the Affleck and Pine movies.
I hope this gets a season 3. It isn’t a trainwreck, but certainly not the best they could’ve done.
They may get the quality up next time. I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater over one lackluster season.


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#4496505 - 11/08/19 03:44 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Completely agree.

I was so looking forward to season 2, as season 1 got me hooked.

Half-way through season 2 and something just was not sitting right, which is a shame because with the inclusion of some new characters, season 2 was looking good. The character arc's just flat out sucked, and quite honestly I don't know if season 3 could keep me engaged if the writing follows the same suit of season 2.

I was highly disappointed with season 2.

#4496559 - 11/08/19 07:52 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Didn't read that whole post once it started getting into spoilers... thanks for the heads up OP sigh I've already binged the second season anyway....

Is it better than the 1st season, not in my opinion, but its still very entertaining. Folks need to remember its a freaking TV SHOW and choose to watch or don't watch its really that simple. Don't know how old your boys are but, that's a parental decision to allow them to watch a show that clearly states its for mature audiences.

Also, its already been renewed for a third season so they must be doing something right...

#4496566 - 11/08/19 08:32 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: reconmercs]  
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Originally Posted by reconmercs


Also, its already been renewed for a third season so they must be doing something right...


Not necessarily, "Jersey Shore" lasted 6 seasons.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4496567 - 11/08/19 08:42 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Already binged the 2nd season to. Liked it better to. Wondering where they will go next ?


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#4496568 - 11/08/19 08:48 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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I probably liked CAPD more than most because of personal experiences. Someone noticed that the sniper training was being done at Hunter Liggett and I had previously mentioned that I had often trained there.


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#4496569 - 11/08/19 08:53 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by reconmercs


Also, its already been renewed for a third season so they must be doing something right...


Not necessarily, "Jersey Shore" lasted 6 seasons.



Fair point LOL Buy yeah, I'm looking forward to the next season of Jack Ryan.

#4496570 - 11/08/19 08:59 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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I liked the first season and was excited to hear it was renewed for a 2nd and 3rd season. But did they had to use a real country in the 2nd season and made it about politics?
I stopped watching it.

#4496573 - 11/08/19 09:29 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
I liked the first season and was excited to hear it was renewed for a 2nd and 3rd season. But did they had to use a real country in the 2nd season and made it about politics?
I stopped watching it.


Tom Clancy related stuff has always had some geopolitics mixed in. Clear and Present Danger had Jack Ryan take on the President of the United States...where have yall been???

#4496578 - 11/08/19 09:57 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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The last Jack Ryan book I read was Debt of Honor where it ended with Ryan becoming President.

#4496588 - 11/09/19 12:47 AM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I probably liked CAPD more than most because of personal experiences. Someone noticed that the sniper training was being done at Hunter Liggett and I had previously mentioned that I had often trained there.

Ah took me a minute to figure out CAPD then the Ding hit me


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#4496621 - 11/09/19 01:33 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Liked both seasons and I have enjoyed all movies. HFRO and SOAF are my favorites. Love CAPD and PG. But, then again, I am a simplton just looking for entertainment. What enquiring minds want to know is, "why are they even considering producing a Matrix 4? But, I digress. winkngrin

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#4496770 - 11/10/19 03:10 PM Re: Jack Ryan writing; I should know better, so should Amazon [Re: jroc]  
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Always get lost in the abbreviations too.
Loved the Tom Clancy books, they had so much of a "real life" feeling, until they started to seem being written by his students or staff.

Have started on the Jack Ryan video series now, but have so much other Netflix and Prime to watch it's slow progress.
I think I'll watch "Spitfire" first .

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