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#4494626 - 10/26/19 05:27 AM WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai  
Joined: Oct 2019
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orbyxP Offline
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I wanted to see how closely WOFF can capture the feel of one of the major battles of the war. Not just missions, but the overall ambiance of the game to immerse you in that time....So, I chose the battle of Cambrai.

News
No complaints, spot on here!

[Linked Image]

Intel on the battle
Ditto!

[Linked Image]

Naturally, by this point, I was so immersed after reading up on the battle, profiles of my squad mates, German aces, and enemy intel on German aerodromes, that I was looking forward to seeing how the mission would play out on that day....

excerpt from General Headquarters, November 21st (on previous day's activities)

Area of Operations

On the 20th our aeroplanes attempted to work throughout the day in conjunction with our operations between St. Quentin and the River Scarpe.

Weather

Low clouds and mist and a strong westerly wind, with drizzle and occasional rain throughout the day, made it necessary for our pilots to fly at 50 ft. from the ground.

Missions

Settings: All Default, except for changes to air activity (see below for explanation).

I created a pilot to start on 20 November 1917 in No 3 Sqdn. Then I made a backup of this pilot so that I can keep recreating him to start on the same date each time I tried a new air activity setting. That way, I can also test the air activity of very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavy and ultra heavy on 20 November 1917.

[Linked Image]

From the RFC side of things, a major part of the battle was that many bombs were dropped on aerodromes, batteries, convoys, troops and other targets of opportunity. Also, there were about 30 reconnaissance flights and patrols that flew deep into enemy territory.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

After testing, here is what I got (spoilers)



The area of operation widened way beyond what was mentioned in the communique each time I increased the air activity setting.

To my surprise, the weather turned out to be very close to what had been that day. Unfortunately, all the flight paths were several hundred meters above the clouds and way above the 50 ft mentioned in the HQ brief.

The most I got for bomb drops was on Ultra Heavy setting. Only 4 rail sidings, one troop encampment and one battery had flights that carried bombs. The other air activity settings had one or two bomb drops. There was not a single aerodrome bombed on any setting.

All the yellow lines represent the flight paths of RFC. And only a few of these flight actually carried any payload (i.e. bombs).

[Linked Image]

The most I got for recon flights was also on Ultra Heavy setting with about 10 recon flights spread thin along the front. The other air activity settings had from 0 (Very Light, Light, Medium) to 5 or 7 (Heavy & Very Heavy) recon flights.

[Linked Image]

I continued playing my pilot for a few more days until 25 November 1917, and compared the files to see if there were any changes as the battle progressed, but unfortunately, I did not find any difference between day 1 and the other days.

What was I expecting to find (and ended up fixing Using JJJ's mission editor):

1. much much more bomb drops as I increased the air activity setting.
2. much less German patrols. The most danger during that day seemed to be the machine gun fire attacking the low flying aircraft.
3. missions flown closer to the area of operation that was mentioned in the HQ brief.



Early Conclusion after playing WOFF for a few weeks...

If you want to get immersed in WOFF manager (intel, briefing, aces, newspaper, pilot screen, etc...), and then fly a mission with challenging AI/great Damage Model, then you're set.

However, if in addition to the immersion, you want more accuracy of how missions were flown, then you'll definitely need to spend a lot of time with the mission editor to 'fix' the flight paths and objectives.




Attached Files 6 aerodromes bombed.jpgBattle of Cambrai 20NOV1917 - Patrols-min.jpgIntell report.jpgNewspaper 20NOV1917-min.jpgGreeting Screen.jpgUH.recon-min.jpgUH.strike-min.jpg
Last edited by orbyxP; 10/26/19 11:29 AM.
#4494631 - 10/26/19 08:48 AM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: orbyxP]  
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Very nicely done sir!
Woke up for a WOFF check of news on my phone (waiting for the announcement of WOFF Diamond Tungsten Carbide Edition), saw this, and fired up the big machine just to take it all in.
If the WOFF campaign engine exactly duplicated history in all missions for all squadrons (an impossible task) I would change my favorite dogs name to OBD and mail them a check for $1000.00
Love the historical maps with operational plans.

Anyway I am familiar with the operations during Cambrai - specifically 46 Squadron - due to the great book "No Parachute" by A.G. Lee.
How did you find the weather?

Last edited by DukeIronHand; 10/26/19 08:51 AM.
#4494638 - 10/26/19 10:25 AM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: orbyxP]  
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Good stuff orby, well done. And you've learned what a fair number of us here who like to fly along the historical lines have discovered as well. Which is one of the main reasons Jara put together his superb Mission Editor.

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
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#4494653 - 10/26/19 11:38 AM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: orbyxP]  
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orbyxP Offline
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I added a section to the original post (in the spoiler) of what I expected to see and had to adjust using the mission editor..... it was truly more fun to tweak everything than flying the actual mission.

I also added the area of operations and weather section for comparison. However, my comments on weather and area of operations are in the spoiler section.

#4494657 - 10/26/19 12:18 PM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: orbyxP]  
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High over the Front
Thanks! I’ll take a peek.
In real life (going by memory again) the weather was very foggy and the planned aerodrome bombing was a shambles though a couple of 46 Squadron Camels did manage to find one airfield. I read the German Jasta commanders in the area refused to fly, citing the bad weather, till the RFC showed up. Multiple pilots were lost in trying to fly under the fog with at least one hitting the trees. The poor weather, IIRC, lasted several days.

I highly recommend the book “No Parachute.” The tale of the 46 during Cambrai is worth the price of admission alone.

#4494715 - 10/26/19 05:08 PM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: orbyxP]  
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Don't forget most general campaign missions are NOT scripted. That's he whole point of our dynamic campaign. We have a huge number of historical squads in their historical airbases, doing a war role they generally historically.

As WM said on this "Well its 'randomised' within many historical and logical parameters...aircraft type squad type, squad rating, squad ops, year, location, phase of war, current war typical ops etc etc...the list is long..."

Also major battles there will be more artillery, more flights in the area and so on. Yes there's a shed load of other data and variables in there too to produce a lively unpredictable war. WOFF and WOTR have powerful scripting that we COULD use more and we could put all sorts of scripted events if we wanted. It would take a considerable amount of time though to make. Some examples of the scripting in WOFF we have done, is the historical Gotha, Zep Raids if you do England Home Defence careers. You can fast forward to next historical event and see an historically based raid on the correct date time etc. There is some randomness there but basically the right squads historical squad attacks from the historical base blah.


It's possible, and we get good support to carry on, who knows maybe we could add mega battle scripts in the future, we shall see if support is there and so on. You can see from that one map alone there's a tone of work for that one battle wink

Last edited by Polovski; 10/26/19 05:09 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4494735 - 10/26/19 07:15 PM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: orbyxP]  
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High over the Front
Just to be “that guy” scripted stuff is very cool and could be an awesome addition to the game.
Normally I would tread more cautiously as “script = lessened replay value” except in WOFF probably.
The game is so intricate and massive that I would be surprised if things play out the same every time.
Anyway you have my support for anything Western Front. Especially when features have a toggle. smile

#4494750 - 10/26/19 09:24 PM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: Polovski]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Originally Posted by Polovski
It would take a considerable amount of time though to make.


Yes, this is true.

Maybe custom made scenarios that can be injected into a campaign would take some of the burden off of OBD.

If you can make a new feature that allows us to select custom made scenarios (e.g.. The Battle of Cambrai on 20NOV1917, The Battle of Arras on 09APR1917, etc...) before the WOFF manager loads the briefing screen. Then the scenario description and mission would show instead of the default one. Also, it would auto-populate the player's squad into it. That would work.

#4494753 - 10/26/19 09:32 PM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: orbyxP]  
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Actually orby, you could do that now with JJJ's Mission Editor. All you need is to create the mission for any given day and/or sortie and save the file. It could then be distributed to others in the WOFF community to use in just the way you are describing. Food for thought.

.

#4494756 - 10/26/19 09:51 PM Re: WOFF vs Battle of Cambrai [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

Actually orby, you could do that now with JJJ's Mission Editor. All you need is to create the mission for any given day and/or sortie and save the file. It could then be distributed to others in the WOFF community to use in just the way you are describing. Food for thought.

.


I would be very glad to do it and you are almost correct, Sir. The problem which I assume will happen is that the wingmen's names will not change over and may not be the same ones you have in your campaign. Also, I would need to make several files with one for each squad, British, German and French. If OBD can work their magic, this can be all automated and I just need to make one scenario file. Just like they have for the Zeppelin raids.


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