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#4492308 - 10/10/19 02:48 PM Workshop setting: Forced Encounters  
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High over the Front
Several days ago a gentlemen asked for opinions on what a good “Historical” value would be for the Workshop Setting for “Forced Encounters.” I can’t find the post nor remember the posters name. At the time, not having PE yet and no one else was piping up, I threw out a guess of Medium.

Well, bright and early this morning now having PE, I was in the Workshop making my selections. With coffee in hand I studied and thought about this as I looked at it. Now I believe in looking at the choices and wording a “historical setting” (or reasonably close in my thinking) is None.
Don’t want to make a WoT as to my complete reasoning but if a encounter has to be artificially forced instead of relying on the campaign assigned aircraft and flight paths leading to encounters then it is not realistic. So goes my current thinking unless someone has other information or ideas.

#4492309 - 10/10/19 02:53 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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.

I agree with you Duke. I imagine that setting is there for folks who want to increase the number of potential shoot-em-ups. I am leaving it set at "none" and am continuing to use the "Regional Air Activity" to increase, or decrease, the likelihood of encounters, setting it based on the period and AO of the war for any of my given pilots.

.

#4492314 - 10/10/19 03:34 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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This feature is intended to simulate all the air traffic from all the squads that are currently missing in the sim. I’ve noticed extra encounters while I had it on. It affects enemy as well as friendly airplanes. If you think the skies are too empty then you can turn this on without the extra strain on your rig of increasing air activity setting. As I understand it, it does not add extra airplanes, just gently nudges them in your flight’s general direction. Early in the war it doesn’t seem natural (maybe even forced eek ) with the enemy nipping at your heels twice as often. Later in the war it may just be the thing to give you that feeling of desperation when the Brits are overrunning the airspace.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4492330 - 10/10/19 05:06 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
Hehe. In my 1918 Jasta 11 careers a lack of enemy aircraft is not a complaint!
smile

#4492412 - 10/11/19 03:44 AM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Just tested this feature out and works really well. In fact, OBD has done an awesome job of controlling how many flights are in the air at once.

I checked the mission file. only see if you don't care about spoilers.
First, it works just like Fullofit said. same number of flights, just their paths move closer to your path.

Second, there are an average of about 5 to 7 squadrons from each side (so 10 to 14 total squadrons) in the air at once. The others are either on standby or are set to take off later during the mission.

#4492421 - 10/11/19 07:28 AM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
Thanks for the info sir.

#4493779 - 10/20/19 02:13 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Hi,

If I have reg. Air activity at default "MED" and encounters "of" Ihave already no enemy contacts, not in autumn 1916 in Elsass (roughly 10 missions without contact) and not in summer 1918 jasta1 ( roughly 5missions without contact). If I change air activity or encounters up than there are contacts.
Result for me: the default settings ( middle activity and encounters high) are no accident. It makes sense. If you don't change air middle activity I only would change encounters between high or normal but not off.

#4493783 - 10/20/19 02:56 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
For me it is a little early to make a judgement things have a nice historical feel so far. Very early though as the bulk of my flying, in multiple campaigns, has been in hideous weather. When the weather is nice(er) and the offensives start I see more Aircraft logically enough. Feels good so far.

I have Air Activity set to “Very Heavy” and Forced Encounters to “Off.” Think “Ultra” is the most “real” per a previous discussions with OBD (all squadrons in play) but am wary of FPS in 1918. So far, so good though so I may bump it up.
I get every single historical Squadron is not included in the campaign OOB but having it steering the enemy to me will probably end up being a bit much. Of course it all depends on what you are trying to achieve with your game. For me I want it to feel as “real and historical” as possible - as I understand it of course. Seeing the enemy every flight, short of clear weather and a active ground offensive, is not it.

#4493784 - 10/20/19 03:13 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Yes, I agree with you Duke!
Encounters of and activity higher is more real / historical in my eyes. And its the alternative possibility to middle activity and encounters high. Thats all, what I wanted to say: to make clear, what this context between air activity and encounter means for the settings at these two points.

#4493899 - 10/21/19 01:44 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Last thoughts about this theme:
I'm sure, the reg. air activity has settings with more or less historical niveau, like encounter with off = most historical. So what's the use of it, if you switch encounter = off, because you want to have it historical, on one side, if you must increase air activity at a pronably unhistorical level on the other side?
Because of this I'm sure, a combination of both is the best solution.
The default settings ( air activity middlle, encounter high) are not the worst solution in my eyes. I have flown any campaigns in Alsace Lorraine with these settings and there were enough flights with no contacts, and the air activity seemed to be relatively realistic (all as I kmow).
The next flighthours I will try air activity one level higher and encounter lower on med and compare it.
Maybe OTB can say, which combi of these 2 points is the best historical solution.
Thanks!

Last edited by Becker01; 10/21/19 01:45 PM.
#4493907 - 10/21/19 02:29 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
I don’t think(?) you can push air activity to ahistorical levels with the Air Activity selection alone. Unless you go “Ultra” with a Forced Encounter setting of Medium or High. Hopefully I’ll make sense here.

OBD (and rightfully so) has been somewhat fuzzy on the *exact* program-level workings of the Campaign part of the game. That’s fine. For me I just want to know enough to recreate history - as I see it. Knowing too much of how the game does what would ruin some of the mental magic of the simulation. I don’t want to know too much.

With that said my understanding (and maybe a little reading between the lines) is that the Air Activity determines how many of the available game squadrons will be active for that campaign combat day. Flights before, during, and after yours all over the front. I extrapolate this further by thinking with all in-game squadrons available (and there are plenty) and all participating in some fashion in the Air War, within the limits of the campaign engine, with historical equipment and missions, how much more “real” can it be? It really can’t be in my mind.

Now “Ultra” Air Activity (all squadrons) takes a good system to run especially in 1918. If my understanding above is correct you can still simulate good history in the Workshop. With Air Activity at “Medium” (fewer squadrons) but with Forced Encounters set to “Medium” or “High” you may be simulating the exact same thing (encounter rates) as “Ultra” and “No” in that with the above example you now have fewer squadrons active but they are being “forced” closer to you. Your Encounters will just have lesser variety.
Hope that made sense - only on my first coffee.

#4493923 - 10/21/19 05:12 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand

OBD (and rightfully so) has been somewhat fuzzy on the *exact* program-level workings of the Campaign part of the game. For me I just want to know enough to recreate history - as I see it. Knowing too much of how the game does what would ruin some of the mental magic of the simulation. I don’t want to know too much.


I must agree. The more you know, the less immersion sigh

#4493925 - 10/21/19 05:29 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
Whew. Thanks JJJ.
I admit, knowing your knowledge of this game, that I was coming in expecting to see a spoiler.
I was ready to “X” out at a moments notice as you are exactly correct.
Imagine the poor guys at OBD. Years of labor on a subject they love and...

#4493930 - 10/21/19 06:31 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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@Duke:
"With Air Activity at “Medium” (fewer squadrons) but with Forced Encounters set to “Medium” or “High” you may be simulating the exact same thing (encounter rates) as “Ultra” and “No” in that with the above example you now have fewer squadrons active but they are being “forced” closer to you. Your Encounters will just have lesser variety.
Hope that made sense - only on my first coffee."

Yes, I agree!!
And to differentiate the air acivity in relation to the year and to the region … ... I can't do it, not enough knowledge on my side.

I believe you can say this: If you change a lower setting at the one point (f.e. encounter), you change a higher setting at the other point (f.e. air activity).
That's not the rule for every case, more a rule of thumb.

I like to fly my campaigns in Alsace and I will test a few different settings.

See you soon and greetings!

#4493932 - 10/21/19 06:50 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I think it all depends on how deep you want to get involved in playing and planning your mission. .... and, of course, what your PC can handle.

At the most extreme end, you need MODs and become familiar with how to edit missions either using JJJ's ME or manually. Then set it all up according to proper sector coverage of the squads, number of planes (friendly and enemy) in the air during the time you're in the air. Then finally, play out the mission with Lou's maps (mine are laminated with wax pencil marks everywhere). Trust me when I say that it's almost impossible to remember all the paths you've adjusted and it will be a total surprise on what you encounter even after doing all that.

At the other extreme end, just use the default workshop settings, play and enjoy. Then, of course, there is everything else in between.

My final point is that not everyone will agree on what is the best setting for forced encounters... because it all depends....

#4493945 - 10/21/19 07:48 PM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Exactly it depends and that is the beauty of the Workshop and specifically modding.
It’s your game - you know what you want to do. A frenetic Air Quake-type environment or a sedately gad about in the clouds. You decide. The world is your apple.

I say I like a historical feel to my game. Some others do to I’ll assume. Is my idea of “historical” the same as theirs? Probably not but it doesn’t matter. We all can have what we want. That’s the beauty of the whole thing.
I can’t help but notice the longer lived games have a vibrant and healthy modding community so there is something for everyone to make the game theirs. And because of its ability to change a whole lot I essentially consider the Workshop one big mod because if those choices weren’t there we’d all be trying to mod it ourselves.

And Becker01: The Alsace should be an excellent testing area for your theory. Plus with the terrain being what it is you should get a great idea of what your computer can handle. I think Lou and Robert can give you some advice on Alsace - I am certain that is RAF Louverts home turf. I’m a Flanders guy myself. My impression is Alsace should be kind of quiet (relatively to other areas north) till 1918 but let’s hope the experts pipe up.

#4494005 - 10/22/19 09:03 AM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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@orbxp: Yes of course you are right! The pc-performance is the top priority, which determines the settings. And you make clear the basic question: What is the reference point, in this case the historical ref. point? For encounter it is easy: Off is most historical, finished. But what about reg. a.a.? Normaly I would say this: The increasing number of squadrons is the result of increasing pressure at the frontline. And this rise of squadrons / pressure increased more and more till 1918
So you have in consequence more and more flights / activity in the air. What does it mean for the reg.a.a. setting? Here an only a very simple idea without relation to the regions:
1915 easy, 1916 middle, 1917 high, 1918 very high or ultra.
And than the f. encounter would depend on the rate of close contacts in relation to the r.a.a. (f.e. 12 missions without close contact is not realistic for 1916 in my eyes. Than you must change from off to med or high).
The problem is, that I have no proof for my interpretation of r.a.a. Maby all is ... Nonsens! And maybe only the pc-performance is the reference point without any historical closeness. I cant say it at the moment cleatly.

@Duke: TOP contribution, compliment!!
And yes. In Alsace there was not so much action. Because of that I was satisfied with default settings in 1916. Not so much contacts, enough flights without them (okay, its subjectice impression).
I will test other settings.

Greetings!

#4494009 - 10/22/19 09:55 AM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
On the subject of Aerial Activity and history I think I would still go with "Ultra Heavy" (all squadrons) always - if your system can cut it - and let the Campaign Engine take care of itself and history for you. I've "fact checked" OBD on several occasions and found, after a little research, they know exactly what they are doing with the history side of things with the limitations of the game engine. So (game limitations in mind) I trust what they are doing until someone can prove otherwise.
In that I mean:
1) In-game squadrons are assigned to locations based on true historical locations.
2) Unit locations are normally based historically on need - ground offensives, enemy activity, etc.
2) As the war goes on more Squadrons/Jastas/Esc become available as the air forces and the war are expanded.

Therefore, and I may be taking a huge leap here, I would conclude that in 1916 Alsace with fewer squadrons on location, based on real life need (lack of ground offensive activity) and the year (less squadrons), that a "true historical encounter rate" would be as good as it gets with "Ultra Heavy" and "No" still. The game doesn't make up fictitious units at higher settings it just uses more of what was really there. Fewer and different units (more two-seater and less fighter in this area I believe) will naturally make for fewer encounters as history apparently dictates.
Obviously the very same Workshop settings would take care of 1918 Flanders also all on its own. More Squadrons active and more on location based on need (ground action) will naturally lead to more encounters.
Trust the Workshop! smile

As an aside (and admitted by OBD) not all historical squadrons are present in the game - much of which has to do with available in-game aircraft I think. Guess I never tried to create a career with all squadrons shown. I tend to stick with the same 6 units. After my FE2d debacle I am not sure anymore what happens when you pick Squadron XX that was assigned Fe8's for example.Think someone mentioned you get the closest equivalent. Or Squadrons that arrive in France with the Big Ack - if the unit is in the game.
But based on the list of units shown in the Pilot Creation Screen if there are active units missing from the Western Front OOB it can't be too many - if all are used in the game. Sounds like a rainy day research project.

#4494023 - 10/22/19 11:23 AM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Thank you very much for your good explanations @Duke!
That would confirm, that the r.a.a. depends on the pc performance in the first place and that OBD / sim- engine takes care of the history about the "program". Then it would be easy. I test it with ultra and off at first and go down till my machine is running without smoke and noise.

That was my problem: What's the right way to find the right / best settings at r.a.a. and f.enc.? Now it's getting clear.

I confirm absolutely, what you have written about the accurate work of OBD, that's fantastic!

See you soon

#4494024 - 10/22/19 11:25 AM Re: Workshop setting: Forced Encounters [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
S!
And good luck. We’ll expect some pics in the Screenshot thread. smile

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