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#4491820 - 10/07/19 10:31 AM Altered Carbon  
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I finally watched the first episode of this series last night.

Pros:

1. Really good cast, especially Mark Purefoy who became immortalized for me as Marc Antony in "Rome".

2. Really good production values and set design. The huge influence of Blade Runner is unavoidable here.

3. Interesting story "hook" or mystery to draw you in (ie who killed Mark Purefoy's character).


Cons:

1. I'm kind of confused on why this future society is the way it is but I'm sure I'll learn more as the series goes on. Naturally, those viewers who have read the book will have a big advantage.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4491871 - 10/07/19 02:11 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Great story, the best of the book series and an amazing production for the show. It may be a little hard to follow and it does differ in some ways from the book, but similar to the Expanse, not all changes are drawbacks but improvements. The Raven is The Hendrix in the book, but Poe is such a great character in the show that I prefer the new version. They couldn't get the Hendrix estate to go along with it, so they had to pivot...for the better. Envoys weren't a terrorist group in the book, but it all still works well enough.


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#4491917 - 10/07/19 05:30 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Personally I didn't need any reason why the society was the way it was. It is what it is.

Trying to explain it, justify it and demystify it just lessens it.

#4491922 - 10/07/19 05:54 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted by EAF331 MadDog
Personally I didn't need any reason why the society was the way it was. It is what it is.

Trying to explain it, justify it and demystify it just lessens it.



To each their own but with any kind of "world building" done in a science fiction setting you at least should have some basic explanation and logic behind why things are the way they are. I'm not asking for a precise in-depth answer to every specific facet of that society.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4491934 - 10/07/19 06:57 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer

To each their own but with any kind of "world building" done in a science fiction setting you at least should have some basic explanation and logic behind why things are the way they are. I'm not asking for a precise in-depth answer to every specific facet of that society.


I've never had the need to have the reasons why Star Wars was the way it was explained to me. When Lucas tried to do some of that, he utterly created the worst crap of the whole Series, ruining the magic he had already created. (yes, I will never ever forgive Lucas for the utter #%&*$# that is Episode 1-3).

Just like Blade Runner is an epic (in the correct version), but nothing is explained about the backstory., You just get dropped into it and accept it.

Look what happened when James Cameron tried to explain the backstory of Alien - behold Prometheus!

#4491935 - 10/07/19 07:04 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted by EAF331 MadDog

Look what happened when James Cameron tried to explain the backstory of Alien - behold Prometheus!



You make some valid points except this one. Cameron had nothing at all to do with Prometheus. That was all Damon Lindelof, Jon Spaihts and Ridley Scott.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4491937 - 10/07/19 07:38 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by EAF331 MadDog

Look what happened when James Cameron tried to explain the backstory of Alien - behold Prometheus!



You make some valid points except this one. Cameron had nothing at all to do with Prometheus. That was all Damon Lindelof, Jon Spaihts and Ridley Scott.


Point is just as valid, even more. He tried to explain his universe (Alien) and the result was meh.

#4491942 - 10/07/19 08:33 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Well, it could actually have been great with a bit more plot refinement, and if they had rolled with the concept of Alien Queens. Deconstructing that part of the established canon was utterly unnecessary. BUT... we discussed Prometheus in a separate thread, let's keep it there.

Generally I agree, if you have a world that is substantially at odds with the world we're accustomed to, trying to explain everything usually results in contradictions, and/or implausibilities. IOW, it usually creates more problems than it solves. Plus, you need more story exposition, and then the question is how you prevent it from a boring history lesson/monolog, or a contrived dialog. When story time is at a premium, this is best left out. Of course, there's the example of Lynch's Dune, where nothing makes sense - unless you read the novels first, in which case it's relatively decent (and great at times).


And now, back to Altered Carbon...

#4491949 - 10/07/19 08:53 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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The history does unfold some throughout the storytelling, but basically this is very far in the future despite looking pretty relatable. Only so much will be explained.


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#4493244 - 10/16/19 11:27 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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One way or another, I'm glad I came across this thread because I really loved the first episode. I've been looking for something to watch and I may have found it. I'm going to watch a few more episodes and see if it suites me. smile


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#4493274 - 10/17/19 11:44 AM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: letterboy1]  
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Originally Posted by letterboy1
One way or another, I'm glad I came across this thread because I really loved the first episode. I've been looking for something to watch and I may have found it. I'm going to watch a few more episodes and see if it suites me. smile



If you really loved the first episode why did you drop the series?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4493311 - 10/17/19 04:13 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted by EAF331 MadDog
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer

To each their own but with any kind of "world building" done in a science fiction setting you at least should have some basic explanation and logic behind why things are the way they are. I'm not asking for a precise in-depth answer to every specific facet of that society.


I've never had the need to have the reasons why Star Wars was the way it was explained to me. When Lucas tried to do some of that, he utterly created the worst crap of the whole Series, ruining the magic he had already created. (yes, I will never ever forgive Lucas for the utter #%&*$# that is Episode 1-3).

Just like Blade Runner is an epic (in the correct version), but nothing is explained about the backstory., You just get dropped into it and accept it.

Look what happened when James Cameron tried to explain the backstory of Alien - behold Prometheus!


Proper world-building doesn't need to show the backstory. Blade Runner was full of world-building, because proper building shows you the world, like a guide taking you on a tour, integrating you with culture, sights, sounds, people and places and customs. When the world feels alive, as if it can operate on its own without you there, that is the hallmark of a world builder's job well done.

I think the issue with Lucas and Episode 1 - 3 was that everything felt so forced, bland, and blah for the sake of "kids" or "action." If he had maybe revised his scripts with several more passes, and threw out much of the bad and rewrote entire sections, they might have been better. But the core problem there was his outline at conception.

Speaking as someone who has written novels, at least for myself I find it very helpful to know the beginning and the end of a story before beginning writing. Then, at that point, I'll write a rough synopsis of what the story should look like, and after that draft a key point progression for the story--key events and turnings throughout, in a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. fashion.

Then I begin.

Lucas may have done that, but he might have overlooked the most important later step--be willing to trash some of those key points when they don't work. He also missed another critical feature--give the audience what they want, not what you /think/ they want. Much of 1 - 3 felt forced, and not natural. These movies had a world that felt like something, but to me, in the end distilled into a jumbled bland uninteresting mess. He missed the mark. That's when you toss stuff in the bin and start over.

I'm a small fry though. Lucas is a Billionaire. So what the hell do I know?

#4493324 - 10/17/19 05:57 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by letterboy1
One way or another, I'm glad I came across this thread because I really loved the first episode. I've been looking for something to watch and I may have found it. I'm going to watch a few more episodes and see if it suites me. smile



If you really loved the first episode why did you drop the series?

I must have typed my words wrong. I didn't drop Altered Carbon. I just finished episode 6 of season 1. I was saying that I loved the first episode and thought I'd watch a few more to see how I feel about it. Well, I'm pretty much hooked at this point. Also, quite a few hot women. smile


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#4493328 - 10/17/19 06:12 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Looking forward to the next season, although the first book was the best. Should still be really good, even with a new cast.


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#4493355 - 10/17/19 09:05 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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The women are indeed nice to look at and I was really happy to see Mark Antony again. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4493524 - 10/18/19 08:31 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
The women are indeed nice to look at and I was really happy to see Mark Antony again. smile

Which character did he play? For some reason, I was not able to Google or IMDB this name to fit a character in Altered Carbon. Might be the vodka. smile


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#4493880 - 10/21/19 11:22 AM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: letterboy1]  
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Originally Posted by letterboy1

Which character did he play? For some reason, I was not able to Google or IMDB this name to fit a character in Altered Carbon. Might be the vodka. smile



The actor is James Purefoy and he played Laurens Bancroft.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4501766 - 12/27/19 10:32 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Looking forward to series 2 in Feb..

#4506163 - 02/04/20 09:55 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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trailer for Season 2, coming late february:


#4507775 - 02/18/20 01:04 PM Re: Altered Carbon [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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So I finally finished season 1 and I have a few observations:

This show is an anomaly for me because while it has very good production values and very good acting performances, it isn't grabbing me at an emotional level. None of the "deaths" you see during the season and especially in the finale affected me at all with the exception of one character in the final episode.


Having said that, I will be watching season 2 since it seems that the narrative will be quite different.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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