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#4493270 - 10/17/19 11:03 AM Question for the FM Gurus.  
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Not afraid to use someone else’s FM file (or tweak it myself) for certain circumstances. Not to make a plane into a P-51 Mustang but to suit it into my idea of history (different engine sizes for the Spads for example) or just to make a plane easier to fly with a joystick and keyboard like the turn ability (nose rise not rate) of the Fokker Dr.1

In going over the work of the FM modders I see everyone seems to change a different *number* of file and file folders. For example some change the .xfm file in just the aircrafts main folder. Some the main folder and the QC one. Some include all the Squadron folders also.

Why the difference?
If I just need “my plane” changed (like the Dr.1) what folder .xfm files need changing? Just the main one?
If I need all changed (like making all Spad VII’s the 150 HP version) which file/folders then?

#4493275 - 10/17/19 11:59 AM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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a) xxx_Sqd.xfm and xxx_QC1.xfm
b) all xxx_XXX.xfm files

#4493277 - 10/17/19 12:13 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Thank you sir! I only use a couple (in fact the ones mentioned above normally) but have any and all WOFF stuff downloaded.
Going to have to look closer then. All the mods are different but that probably depends on what it’s trying to do.
Specifically if the “150 HP Spad VII” is making all the needed changes. Got so many that I am unsure but I do know all are different.

#4493332 - 10/17/19 06:29 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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There are a total of 11 aircraft folders in WOFFue/pe. I changed the xfm files in all 11 folders (in my FM pack) to be consistent and to make sure that the AI follows the FM changes as well. One can of course pick and choose which of the xfm files to install if you don't want all 11 folders covered. JJJ's post gives the answer - change only the xfm in the QC1 and generic Sqd folder if you want only your aircraft to be "upgraded."

The 150hp Spad VII is good for late 1916/early 1917 approximately. Top speed around the mid-190s kph - also slightly worse climb rate than on the 180 and 220 hp Spad 7 variants. It is however slightly more maneuverable than the engined-up, later Spad VIIs. Good for balloon busting - also acceptable in dogfights - but maintain energy in it.

Von S smile2

#4493342 - 10/17/19 07:15 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Been looking at the .xfm’s again.
Anyone ever write a guide in the form of “increasing or decreasing this value” does this in-game kind of thing?

Been playing with the Dr.1 - the only .xfm (besides historical engines already done) that I would like to change.
Trying to get the nose not to rise when turning stalling the thing out - aided by it being tail heavy I think. Seems awful twitchy in turns all around.
Even bought a set of rudder pedals just for the Dr.1 but, boy, they are klunky to use.

#4493345 - 10/17/19 08:07 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Okay. Think I may be on the right track with some old advice from “He that wished to remain Anonymous.”
This has been a long haul. The Dr.1 has been a (the?) top favorite since I was a kid but a royal pain to fly. Sometimes too much FM realism is not a good thing when your cockpit is a chair and a $40 piece of electronic plastic.

#4493373 - 10/17/19 11:59 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Don't think that a guide is available for FM tweaks in WOFF.

My work on the xfm files has been largely trial and error until I figured out what works best for me as the "end user/flyer" at the other end of the screen. Sometimes the wrong numbers give the right (historical) results. Also, there's only so much that can be done with the xfm files, in comparison to the data ini files in the TW sims (the TW sims are the flight sim equivalent of a Linux distro...you get out of them what you put into them biggrin , not everybody's cup of tea) . Much of the FM info. is hard-coded into WOFF I think. If you find the Fokk. Dr.1 too twitchy in stock mode, try toning down the following entry in the xfm file:

<Tuning torqueEffect_frac="1.4" pFactor_frac="1.03" gyroPitch_frac="0.6" gyroYaw_frac="1.75"/>

The values above are from the stock Dr.1. Values are about 20% higher in those entries for my 150hp Dr.1, for example - so if you want to fly a more twitchy beast I recommend the 150hp Dr.1. biggrin

Try something like:

<Tuning torqueEffect_frac="1.1" pFactor_frac="0.83" gyroPitch_frac="0.4" gyroYaw_frac="1.55"/>

...for a slightly more docile aircraft.

Increasing the arc of the rudder movement is another, more crude way of keeping the nose down in tight turns, as well as increasing the effectiveness fraction value for the rudder - but might increase drag.

Happy flying and FM experimenting,
Von S smile2

#4493378 - 10/18/19 12:35 AM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Excellent!
Thank you. Will plug them in tomorrow and let you know.

#4493410 - 10/18/19 07:11 AM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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As an aside I also bought the TW WW1 sim (who's name I forget!) being a WW1 Junky and absolutely loving WoV for my Jet fix. It's on my HD somewhere. Too bad "what's his name" (the designer) is out of the sim business having switched to mobile phone apps I heard.
I liked everything about the TW sim *except* it seemed quite hollow when stacked up against the WOFF campaign engine. Least to me. WOFF is a tough act to follow in the WW1 department.
Okay. Let's give the above a test. Think the values you posted are have not been touched by me. Have to check my notes.

#4493438 - 10/18/19 11:43 AM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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ThirdWire (TW) is trying to make a comeback by "crowdfunding" the amount to convert all his old PC games up to Win10.

I guess he did not make as much on his mobile apps as he would have liked.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4493442 - 10/18/19 12:25 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I’d buy Wings over Vietnam 2 again in a heartbeat.
Kind of my WOFF with jets.
Except all those mods I have...

And I never did get a reason why TK (finally remembered his name) left PC sims. He certainly had a devoted audience that seemed to gobble everything up. My impression was he was a bit of a “one man show” and it all got to be too much.

I’d be flying WoV right now if it wouldn’t take a day and half figuring out the massive (but confusing) Vietnam mod (which adds lots) for WoV. Never quite sure with the 6 downloads which one(s) of the patches I need. Then I got to tweak it up with assorted minor mods. Radio traffic, etc. Starting from Ground Zero after a W10 reinstall last month. I find the Vietnam air war fascinating. Kind of the Western Front of the jet age for me. Love the F4 and F105.

#4493446 - 10/18/19 12:37 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Don't the Strike Fighters 2 games, including the Strike Fighters 2 Vietnam which is a updated Wings Over Vietnam, work on Windows 10 already?

#4493448 - 10/18/19 12:39 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Was gonna mention that (as WoV worked for me I thought) but perhaps it’s part of a total upgrade of...something. Always thought the graphics were very good. The planes were certainly beautifully done.
Perhaps dedicated 64-bit performance and new features. Plus selling stuff. smile

#4493452 - 10/18/19 12:50 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: mvp7]  
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Originally Posted by mvp7
Don't the Strike Fighters 2 games, including the Strike Fighters 2 Vietnam which is a updated Wings Over Vietnam, work on Windows 10 already?


Some do, some don't. FE doesn't, IIRC. The crowdfunding campaign was *not* for all his games, and it appears it ended in September at only a part of the goal reached.

You can see which ones are which on the web site > HERE <

#4493463 - 10/18/19 01:19 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I suspect the current crop of “Windows 10” games may be a bit arcade-ish since you use an X-box controller.
Anyway 4K out of 25k raised in the funding drive so...
Luckily WoV 2 still has a lot of miles left in her and massive modder support - least it used to.

#4493467 - 10/18/19 01:30 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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All of the original Wings Over games were remade for the Strike Fighters 2 engine and they actually work as a single game with all the content available for QC etc. It says they work with Windows 7 which usually means Windows 10 works as well but I haven't tested. They actually compiled all the SF2 games and smaller DLC to Strike Fighters 2 Complete package a few months ago: https://store.thirdwire.com/project_sf2_complete.htm

Last edited by mvp7; 10/18/19 01:31 PM.
#4493469 - 10/18/19 01:42 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: mvp7]  
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Originally Posted by mvp7
All of the original Wings Over games were remade for the Strike Fighters 2 engine and they actually work as a single game with all the content available for QC etc. It says they work with Windows 7 which usually means Windows 10 works as well but I haven't tested. They actually compiled all the SF2 games and smaller DLC to Strike Fighters 2 Complete package a few months ago: https://store.thirdwire.com/project_sf2_complete.htm



I'm just going by what the web page says, and it shows SF2 Complete as Windows 7. Saying something works with Windows 7 doesn't usually mean it will work with Windows 10...more like "It might or might not". Regardless, what it generally does mean is that if you're lucky enough to get it to run, great - but any problems and it's often "Not officially supported".

Somehow, I doubt they'd start a crowdfunding campaign asking users to raise $25k to put SF2 on Windows 10, when all one has to do is use this SF2 Complete. That doesn't sound like something TK would do, and there would likely be a lot of public comment - mostly negative - if it were done that way.

Of course, maybe he decided to be charitable and just make it work anyway, but I don't think so, and if so, it's not documented as such that I could find. Or maybe it just means it will run on W10, but not with DirectX 12.

#4493472 - 10/18/19 01:51 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I claim no computer expertise but in my narrow and limited taste in computer games Windows 7 = Windows 10 just fine.
I have to run the WOFF.exe in W7 Compatibility Mode as I have W10 Pro.

#4493475 - 10/18/19 02:44 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
I claim no computer expertise but in my narrow and limited taste in computer games Windows 7 = Windows 10 just fine.
I have to run the WOFF.exe in W7 Compatibility Mode as I have W10 Pro.


Of course, within a narrow scope that may be true. I'm talking about a much broader scale (more games, more/different hardware, drivers, etc...)

You have to realize that an implicit goal of Microsoft is to force everyone to a subscription model for software (specifically, the OS). They sure as h#ll didn't 'give away' all those W10 upgrades because of humanitarian goals, I can tell you that.

Already, a lot of people using all kinds of software that ran just fine before the "upgrade" are running into problems running the same stuff under W10. And every update (which are forced, ultimately) makes it worse.

Microsoft figured this out years ago (see Steve Ballmer's "Developers" rant: > here < That was real, and a long time ago (c.2000): Microsoft knew then, as a business model, the way to force OS changes (and thus, drive revenue) is to control the programs that can run on an OS. (During the video, he's stressing that if you get the developers to write code for platform x - whatever x is - then people will have no choice but to use platform x). Developers, developers, developers... a well-known rant among computer geeks like myself. Not because it's amusing (it's honestly rather scary TBH)...but because we recognized then what it meant.

Nowadays, it should be no secret M$ wants everyone on W10, and thus (ultimately) a subscription service platform. One way to go about that is to progressively limit the programs (games, or whatever) that will run on W10. This is essentially what is going on with TW: It runs, but there are already reported problems. So, in order to make it fully compliant/stable, the developer must go back in and rework the code. If that developer doesn't want to or is unable...well, you're done. Happens all the time. Lots of people out there who refuse to update because it would mean losing their favorite games or programs. It's not new in W10, but it's definitely becoming more and more aggressive.

Also, don't forget: Even if it might run, the bottom line is if the developer doesn't officially support W10, then it may or may not work reliably, and users have no official recourse.

(And, again, I seriously doubt TK/TW would be so disingenuous as to promote a $25k crowdfunded campaign for something that essentially already exists, while representing SF2 Complete runs on W7, if it would run on W10)

Last edited by kksnowbear; 10/18/19 02:50 PM.
#4493476 - 10/18/19 02:48 PM Re: Question for the FM Gurus. [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Oh I have no love for MS or W10 it just seems to be the inevitable wave of the future as far as games are concerned.
I would sacrifice 10 goats and the fatted calf if there was a viable, and working, alternative to Windows.
I would drop MS in a hot second.

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