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#4493119 - 10/16/19 09:05 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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Just got back from a flight with your settings and I like them.
95% of what I hear is Engine with all else being a little faint (AA bursts) or nonexistent (barrage fire).
I like it. Just what I would expect.
As an aside most game designers have to (and do) make compromises between “fun gameplay” and what is “realistic.”
Too much realism in combat (considering it’s a video simulation) does not make a fun game for most people.

#4493120 - 10/16/19 09:08 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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changing sound files will not have the desired effect of making sounds faint in the distance and louder as you approach. I assume that can only be done at a code level.

#4493121 - 10/16/19 09:11 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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Back in the day I used to delete certain sounds files but then things sounded (or didn’t!) strange when the Engine was off. Guess I never realized the “power of the sound sliders.” smile

#4493122 - 10/16/19 09:18 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: orbyxP]  
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Originally Posted by orbyxP
changing sound files will not have the desired effect of making sounds faint in the distance and louder as you approach. I assume that can only be done at a code level.


This is true, as I mentioned the limitations of the engine are based upon categorisation, not distance and attenuation in a 3D environment. My idea was to produce a rebalance of the existing sounds that blends better "out of the box" than the existing set. (Long story short, no 10,000ft air raid sirens or listening to trucks drive past 5 miles away)

The basic assumption of my idea being that most people spend most of their time in WoFF with their engine on. Why not balance the sounds around this condition rather than having people panic when someone fires and MG 15 miles away? In most modes of flight having the engine on is the recommended procedure. It wouldn't be perfect but continual improvement is a more viable pursuit than the dream of perfection.

Last edited by Ace_Pilto; 10/16/19 09:31 AM.

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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
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#4493130 - 10/16/19 10:21 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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Ok. Sounds like a good plan.

Along the same lines, I'm thinking that enemy machine gunfire from 100 meters away or more wouldn't probably be heard over one's own engine. So, if the damage sounds of fabric ripping, wood/metal bullet hits could be made louder and the machine gunfire sound made barely audible or even nonexistent then imagine the surprise of hearing your plane getting shot at out of nowhere because you were being stalked by the enemy.

#4493131 - 10/16/19 10:36 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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To me that's a balance issue. Players need feedback to base their decision making on so I would prefer to respect that convention over "realism" in order to maintain an environment that respect the boundaries of simulation.


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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4493133 - 10/16/19 10:55 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Originally Posted by Ace_Pilto
To me that's a balance issue. Players need feedback to base their decision making on so I would prefer to respect that convention over "realism" in order to maintain an environment that respect the boundaries of simulation.


I was thinking more along the lines of a sound MOD with different options like realism along with other choices. Everyone's' tastes are different.

#4493134 - 10/16/19 10:56 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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Actually all this things can be set seperatly in WS. So one who wants to have it more realistic, can make engine etc. louder, one who wants more hollywood can tone it down etc. Just play a bit with the setting in WS and find your sweet spot.

After all there are different accounts in memoirs etc. what can be heard and what not. enemy gunfire, archy, barrages etc. in real of course it also depends of the wind direction and gusts. everybody who has watched fireworks, can hear that sometimes a bang is louder, sometimes another bang is rather a weak pop, and sometimes nothing at all etc. Or just listen to the flak bursts.

Soundfiles are set to be in a 3d enviroment, especially great with 5.1 or 7.1 and to become softer when flying away etc. sometimes it's a sort of compromise. There might be glitch probably, when hearing firing AC miles away. Will need to find out.

Regarding groundfire, sometimes it sounds very short, sometimes longer, depending on how long the trigger of the groundgun is pulled. So short bursts might sound a bit odd sometimes. I will take a look at that, probably making it play longer, even though it's maybe just a snapshot, similarly to how i made rifleshots.

Cheers

#4493136 - 10/16/19 11:11 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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I get the gist of this conversation and yes maybe some of the ambient noise is unrealistic and needs tweaking but overall I love the atmosphere it's creating. Like when you land and you can hear distant artillery and the tap, tap, tapping of people working at the airfield. Like most here I panicked when that noise of the aircraft overhead sounded....but again it adds to the overall atmosphere.

If the sounds and when you hear them can be improved then great but not at the cost of losing the atmosphere they're trying to create.

Last edited by Simes; 10/16/19 11:17 AM.

So, we take off in ten minutes, we're in the air for twenty minutes, which means we should be dead by twenty five to ten.
#4493138 - 10/16/19 11:25 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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No worries Simes :-)

#4493139 - 10/16/19 11:26 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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^^^^And that is another variable that demands consideration.


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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
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#4493168 - 10/16/19 02:19 PM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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A lot of good points here. I would definitely like to hear a bit more than just the sound of the engine even if that would strictly be most realistic. The relatively small dynamic range of volume in games is always a challenge and simply scaling down the range of real sounds isn't enough for believable soundscape. Compensating for the missing senses is also important to consider.

It's not particularly relevant for the WOFF but one of the most persistent pitfalls of realistic shooting games has long been the sound of guns. Games like ARMA tend to use real weapon sounds and they just sound bland in the game, like you were shooting airsoft guns instead of rifles. In reality, all guns from air rifle to heavy machine gun just make a *pop* or a *snap*. It's the overwhelming volume and pressure that makes the real sound of weapon feel powerful. Games can't replicate that with just the toned down sound recorded on a shooting range. I think games with over the top weapon sounds (Goldeneye 64 and Soldier of Fortune for example) often get much closer to the desired feel for the weapons than the more "realistic" sounds can ever get.

In my opinion the airfield sounds, that you only really hear after shutting down your engine, are very good and atmospheric apart from ghost plane scares. It's definitely not unrealistic to hear artillery explosions few dozen kilometers behind the front even if the relative volumes aren't exactly correct due to the limited dynamic range.

#4493172 - 10/16/19 02:47 PM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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Quote
In reality, all guns from air rifle to heavy machine gun just make a *pop* or a *snap*. It's the overwhelming volume and pressure that makes the real sound of weapon feel powerful. Games can't replicate that with just the toned down sound recorded on a shooting range.


Exactly. Not to forget the mechanical clanks etc. That's why in WOFF external sounds of machineguns are authentic guns, same as are the internal ones, but they aren't just toned down but an apropriate pop pop or ack ack (depending on guntype, period etc.) with lot of audible "information" lost when hearing them from farther away.

#4493814 - 10/20/19 07:15 PM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: mvp7]  
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In addition to the too loud sound of distant machine guns (in PE) I seem to have no wind sound in the cockpit, even at 300 kph. I've had one PE mission when the plane was damaged and I heard it then (mostly the whistling sound as I recall) but otherwise nothing. And I have the cockpit sound setting at 100. That's the setting that controls the wind sound, isn't it?

#4493858 - 10/21/19 03:42 AM Re: Ambient vs information [Re: Trooper117]  
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
Same here with the MG sounds... they always make me jump, lol!


Ditto! LOL, always gets me riled up and looking around expecting a bounce from Fritz! cuss

S!Blade<><

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