see here

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4073993&postcount=1

That post is a step in the right direction in winning back some of the communities anguish towards how the forums at ED have been moderated over the years.

NineLine himself has stated some of the bans were heavy handed.

Many people within the community have said they don't play DCS due to the way their posts were handled by the moderation team. Even reporting issues with modules resulted in warnings or bans.

ED have solved 1 issue by having a clean slate with banned members.

Yes there are many further issues stated by respected members such as Paradaz, Tom and other members who post here on a regular basis. I personally would like to see a time line of what ED has in the pipeline.

The apologies by ED to people for their lack of communication is becoming repetitive with each new person who states a "lack of communication" as their main gripe.

When will we see an estimated time line of releases or when released modules will be completed. Nick Gray mentioned several plans for the future. Can ED provide individual dates when this foresight will be reality within a specific time frame?

Nineline restored my account a few weeks ago

Oh, is the F-16 selling this bad?
Yeah, could see it coming to be honest.

You have to PM them if you are set at 100% warning (read this on hoggit)

It is not a clean slate though

I'd be surprised if my ban was lifted.

only one way to find out

So they never banned anyone without a proper reason and people get unbanned now, makes sense. Forum rules have changed... [insert world's biggest lol here]

I don't see the point:

1) Get un-banned.
2) Get on ED forum and ask about lack of A/G radar (which is what got me banned years ago).
3) Maybe ask about one current bug.
4) Get banned.

All in a day's work. . .

Yea, but they can then un-ban you, see they're not that bad as it looks.

I can't see anyone getting banned now for what you are stating, if somehow you do, feel free to PM me about it.

Well as expected the new "lighter" touch ED forum moderation did not last long

case in point - > https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=252408

wonder what reason there was for locking this ?

Well, people were slagging DCS off and putting forward ideas for ED to get a grip of themselves. That's more than enough.....thread closed. Like you said, their improvement in communication has lasted about 10 days. They always have and look they always will.....refuse to acknowledge their imperfections and refuse to learn by their mistakes. Never mind, we can forget all these crappy pre-early alpha releases and look forward to the next module announcement so they can pay their workforce for the last 6 months of effort.

I was gonna register an account then I thought to myself: children who can't take criticism never change. So I didn't.

The reason was the back and forth between users, after 150 posts, and some time being open, it has sent the message it needed, a handful of the same people fighting probably won't make much difference. It's still there, it wasn't deleted, so I am not sure I see the issue, it would be worse if we needed to start moderating the thread for people calling each other names, then everyone sees all the deleted messages and wonders what we are hiding, so in that case, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

......and that's exactly what a forum is for.



Given that you have now closed that topic, you're not allowing people to discuss it and therefore you are censoring. The funny thing is that it isn't even your post...it's not up to you to determine whether the message has been received loud and clear - it's up to the original poster. You wonder why you receive such criticism and it's not about "damned if you do, damned if you don't"....it's about listening to what the community are saying and learning from your mistakes. ED and their mods stated that you have taken the message on board and are improving communication. It's clearly a load of hot air and something that you and ED are clearly not prepared to do.

I haven't called the ED message boards a 'forum' for a long time, and this is the perfect example of why......... it is a censored message board and not a forum. You simply do not allow people to express their opinions if you don't like them and just start blocking content. You reap what you sow.

Actually Paradaz, this, SimHQ, would be a community forum, ours is a support forum for our product. There is no point in a thread that just ends up being an argument between a few users. Hoggit, SimHQ and Mudspike are better suited for a wider range of topics and if they so chose a more adult conversation, ours are to be focused on the support of DCS World and it's users. I don't presume to win this discussion with you though, I know your mind is pretty much set, even with the unbanning, and loosing of the 1.15 rule and others, we still need to keep the focus of the discussion on support of DCS World. If moderators have to spend time on a thread that has all but burnt out and now just down to a couple of people arguing, I and the mod team feel it takes away from support of other users. Something the above listed community forums do not need to worry about.

And if you can't find critical or negative feedback on our forums, then you are not looking very hard, the fact that we dont allow insults or bad words in that feedback has nothing to do with censoring customer opinions. But again, I know you are set in your ways, that is all I will say on it with you, I cant force you to see it any other way, I can only try to do the best I can.

The thread that we are referring to on the ED Message Boards is held within the following directory/structure:

ED Forums » English » Reality » Chit-Chat

Although I don't believe the rubbish you posted above, mainly because the structure of the ED Message boards are much wider than catering for support only......can you confirm that the 'Chit-Chat' area of the ED message boards are indeed part of any 'Support' mechanism and posts within that particular area are deemed to be looking for ED interaction?

So there you go, what I said above is perfectly valid. You have shut down a topic, simply because you don't like the content and you are deeming it as having 'sent the message' it needed even though you never attempted to confirm this with the originator of the post. It's complete nonsense to claim that there is a 'handful of people fighting' aswell, there are a couple of people disagreeing with each other, it wasn't heated and isn't over the top - you're obviously trying to use that as a lever though, in order to justify your actions. Closing the topic really isn't even your decision to make, unless of course you're attempting to take some sort of high ground as a moderator that can do what you want - that was certainly your persona over the years. Unbanning my account and any supposed loss of 'rule 1.15' is irrelevant. I won't be posting on those boards until I see products being finished and the ridiculous censorship tackled. I've actually just logged into my account and can see 100% warnings for level 1.13 infractions whatever they are and expirations of 'never'. I believe this was related to activity in SimHQ which again goes to show the level of paranoia and immaturity of the moderators that ran back to their boards to log those warnings and increment the levels several times on the same day back in 2015 lol. I've heard about all these 'communication improvements' over and over again through the last 5 years and it's been nothing other than complete and utter rubbish every single time.

I'm not set in my ways at all. I'll change my approach when I see some evidence that ED are going to shake off the incompetent tag they've earned and yet never done anything to improve, and I'll visit the boards with constructive and helpful posts when the censorship stops and the moderators restrict their condescending and abrasive approach to sensible comments. If you're currently doing the best you can then you still have a long way to go.

How, if you just leave it alone apart from dealing with post within that thread that might get reported if someone actually is breaking a rule, then it is not doing
any harm. Same old ED moderation team, don't like something ... just lock it up , its pretty sad, you are stopping other people coming in later and
having their say .... if a thread is no longer relevant people stop posting in it ... and that thread dies a natural death , you are just pure out censoring stuff at least be honest and admit to that

I've only just come across this thread on reddit.com....I assume a lot of people have already read it however if you haven't it's probably the best article that summarises ED, the early access and forum behaviour in it's most succinct form.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/d7kp1g/wall_of_text_eagle_dynamics_early_access_problem/

Have a look at the article and responses/comments. It pretty much exposes the strategy, flaws and approach of ED together with those who are still fans and those who have simply become so let-down with the whole DCS product. And yet ED and associated mods wonder why they have lost trust and are losing the trust of the flight sim community.

.

The Chit Chat Section does not release a user or groups from the Established Rules regarding conduct and/or criticism.

As we have stated, if you would like your warning points reviewed, feel free to drop me a PM on the ED forums, we could do a mass unbanning, but removing warning points takes more 1on1.

Yes, Chit Chat still falls under the ED Forums, and expected to follow forum rules as well.

If we didn't like it, we would have locked it up before reaching 150 posts, what we don't like is when users turn threads into personal arguments and mistreating each other, which is where that thread was headed. We can only do so much, in the old days the thread probably would have been deleted, so we let it sit for a while till the conversation degraded into nothing helpful, and closed it, yet we are still the same old moderation team. We can only try to make things better, but we won't let the forums turn into hundreds of threads with 4 or 5 people fighting with each other. Locking a thread is hardly censoring when people can still read it, and communicate their issues in other threads.

Not sure how locking one thread is stopping people from having their say either, I mean I am trying here but not sure I see the logic. If we left it open and started deleting the OT or the fighting, then people would see the deleted posts and say we are trying to hide something. So what do you do.

But again, I didnt come to argue about stuff, we still have rules, we are trying to give people a fresh start, that doesn't mean the ED forums are meant to be a free for all, they are still there for support, forums like these exist for the extra stuff.

SO you went full minority report ....... you sensed it might be headed to people being mean to each other .... and locked it


it is pretty simple to explain why locking a thread is stopped people having their say ...... discover this thread after it has been locked wanted to express an opinion in that thread ..... you are not able to
You guys dont like it when someone opens a thread about a topic that you have already locked/censored ... tend also to get locked does it not

You ask "So what do you do." pretty simple, someone breaks an actual rule in that thread, then enforce action upon that ONE person, do nuke the entire thread

Please tell me which rules the OP broke to have his thread locked?

To be quite frank here.

NineLine has answered most of the questions in this paragraph.



Any grievance towards other members\moderators at ED's forums will end up having the topic locked. The thread in question probably broke the following rule

1.10 Product feedback and constructive criticism is encouraged when provided in a mature and courteous manner. However, feedback that is abusive, insulting or condescending is not welcome. Additionally, to bring up a particular issue repeatedly after it has already been acknowledged will be considered "trolling" - in such cases a warning will be issued to the author and the post will be removed.

To be fair, NineLine did let that thread play out whilst most of the comments could be classed as 'flooding' under 1.14 - Information repeated in other sections / topics (cross-posting), many of the comments are pretty much copy and paste of what 50 other people have said in that thread.

NL said he is not here to convince anyone of anything, he came here on his own accord. He has stated several times he is not going to change anyone's minds here regarding ED's 'new' forum moderation or that ED are making changes as mentioned in the link found in the OP.

Would the SimHQ thread have made it this far over at ED? I am actually surprised that NineLine is still here replying to the comments, Honestly, some of our minds are made up and nothing will persuade us differently.

"ED is focused on the support of DCS World and it's users" ED\DCS have a product to protect which is why the forums over there are strictly managed and more tightly guarded than what we have here at SimHQ and Hoggit.

There is a lot of back and forth in this thread but at some stage we need to see it as a stalemate. There are no winners in this argument when you see it from both sides of the coin.

To be fair though, the reception here at SimHQ for you NineLine is on par with the warm welcome I received at Mudspike. I didn't realise how much they love and missed me over at Mudspike, had I known the members there have waited all these years for me to sign up, I would have 3 years ago.

I'd rather trap my knob in the armoury door.....but thanks all the same. Let me know when ED ever finish a module and I'll re-evaluate.

I feel like I need to reply now as we only have 4 early access modules and many more released already.

Anyways, if you ever want me to review your points, just let me know, I'll leave it at that. Thanks.

Are you claiming that some modules are finished? ED stating something is 'released' has absolutely no correlation with functionality, maturity and polish.

Released doesn't mean finished, Released means that all of the planned product features are complete.

As we know, DCSW is Always evolving, nothing is ever "finished".

I thought that was the case.....I just wondered what the relevance of Nineline's statement was;



To me, that just agrees with my previous sentiment in that there are 4 Early-Access-nowhere-near-beta models out there, and many more unfinished modules out there that will probably never get finished either. The caveat of 'nothing is ever finished' because the World is always evolving is both tiresome and a rudimentary disclaimer of taking no responsibility whatsoever. There is no reason why individual platforms/modules could not be finished/polished or considered 'gold'......other than ED's inability to budget a project and resources properly. The World may evolve but the platforms could (and should) be completed but that is always likely to fall on deaf ears with ED, probably because they don't actually know where the finish line is. Case in point - KA50. Still has bugs, still has issues that have been created with other patches/fixes and although it was released in 2008 it's still not complete and going through another update when there are way more important core issues that should be getting dealt with first.

Hey nine line just some feedback:

I was desperate to invest in and support ED - particularly the ww2 content which I reckon holds amazing promise. Love the whole Normandy project if it is ever properly realised and optimised (late war Europe map to match the plane set please).

I was banned when I gently suggested I would be unwilling to buy further modules until the WW2 content was delivered as we paid for as part of the original Kickstarter project. Fair comment I thought. I did not do this in a rude way - simply a consumer asking politely what had happened to the product they paid for.

I realise flight sims is a unique business and not a McDonald’s - but it was all rather poor in my view. The lack of transparency sucked quite frankly.

As I said. I’m still willing to forgive and support. I’d love to see a properly realised WW2 sim with damage models and improvements in spotting. But being banned for this kind of stuff really doesn’t help improve my view of the whole ED project.

The ban was a year ago. I haven’t bothered going back since.

Again - simply for your own feedback.

Warning points...............hahahahahahahahaha. Such childish garbage going on over there. Let the adults say what they want. They purchased your crappy software, let them vent. Let them use the F word if they want. Which cracks me up about this place, there's no underage kids on these forums but they self censor. 37 years on construction sites and none of y'all can say anything I haven't heard. LOL

Your ban should be lifted now (we lifted all of them recently), and if you still have warning points I would be more than happy to review them. There was a lot of heat of the moment issues on both sides of the fence, and I know the mod team got heavy-handed at times, and I am sorry for that. We are trying to get better, and we are trying to make amends for some of that. I know these are just words, and I know that only action will make a difference. And I want anyone to be able to come to me if they feel they have been mistreated on the forums, especially going forward.

On the new DM, I am super excited for that, I am spending this weekend to make some videos about where I think the visuals still need love internally and am going to submit that to Nick Grey and the team. The WWII map we are working on looks beautiful, I have been hoping we will start sharing info on that very soon. Lots of big plans for WWII... but again, action over words.

Anyways, I hope you will give us another chance, yes we still have rules, but I want to make sure that not just users follow these, but our moderation team as well.

Please reach out to me if you have any more questions or concerns.

Sorry you feel like the ED forums should be run like a construction site, but we are an all-ages, multi-language forums, we have rules, and I believe most adults are quite capable of discussing issues and concerns without typing adult language or insults, even someone that has worked years in construction. And to be quite honest, we rarely give warning points for the occasional F-bomb, the people that do it over and over after we have made it clear it's not acceptable. Again, I am sorry we have rules, but I don't think that inhibits a person's ability to convey their frustrations or dissatisfaction in something...I mean you just managed to do it above without using it.

Well, they are still deleting comments they don't like so not much has really changed. You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig.

Mate that is much appreciated. Thanks.

But as I say - I want to stress I won’t be buying new DCS products until I see genuine efforts to repair the damage done by that Kickstarter business.
I’d like to see real progress in the aircraft we paid for and the Normandy map fixed.
Best of luck. I really hope it works out.

Totally fair, if you are worried, it's completely fair to wait and see if our actions speak as loud or louder than our words right now.

Construction sites are run much better than ED's forums. They actually figure that the people there are adults working towards the same end goal. And if someone gets heated the next guy talks them down again. And judging by how the past ended up, none of y'all understand how to use a hammer (ban-hammer) either.

I use Ryobi Power Tools.... Same One+ battery works on dozens of tools.

.......or consistently don't get anywhere near

Fair question.

After recently being allowed back to the ED forums, when did ED scrap reputation points?

I remember writing something in the hawk thread here all those years ago about giving little green squares for posts worthy of reputation.

SkateZilla's ryobi comment I felt was worthy of giving reputation but I am not able to give it over at ED forums. Was that right taken from me after being banned? Or has that been scrapped altogether?

For the record, I'm more of a Milwaukee man myself. Ryobi is a good but Milwaukee batteries crap on ryobi.

Rep was scrapped a long time ago.

At least two years ago, IIRC.

Ryobi = homeowner tools. Makita, DeWalt and Miwaukee are what contractors typically use. I prefer Makita and I know how to use the hammer.

I love Makita and Milwaukee. Dewalt sucks.

Seeing as I use them at home, then I guess I chose the right ones.

Hah! Just have to laugh out loud about people on SimHQ dinging ED for banning people. I've been banned like 3 times over the years here on SimHQ, mostly for speaking clearly and critically about software products developed and published by advertisers on SimHQ. This is like my 4th account here.

Why do I keep coming back? I dunno, why do people slow down when they drive past car wrecks?

SimHQ stopped taking advertising from publishers years ago, after ownership transferred over to RacerGT. Old, old news by now. Publisher's / developer's marketing decisions (which includes "support" forums) are fair game for examination / discussion.

......forget it Cyber, you're wasting your time explaining yourself and SimHQ advertising policies yet again as per the quote

Interesting the il2 crowd under Jason have announced Normandy as their next expansion.
They would never admit but there is some competition between dcs and il2.
Il2 have obviously made an assessment that the DCS Normandy map will remain a shambles and so they may as well jump in.

And the proper plane set, along with 2 versions of the map, pre and post invasion. I except early access to be about 3 months.

The plane list has me keen

P-51B/C
P-47D “Razorback”
Typhoon Mk.Ib
Mosquito F.B. Mk.VI
Spifire Mk.XIV (Collector Plane)
C-47 Dakota (AI)
B-26 Marauder (AI)



Bf 109 G-6 “Late”
Fw 190 A-6
Ju 88 C-6a
Me 410
Ar 234 (Collector Plane)
V-1 Buzz Bomb (AI)

Source

I got food poisoning at this Asian restaurant in Charlotte, NC, in around 1982. It was bad. On my hands and knees in my father-in-law's driveway, wretching my guts out. I have no idea who owns it now, nor how many ownership changes it's been through.

But guess what? In 2019, nearly 40 years later, it's still, "that place where I got food poisoning."

You posted (again), as if getting banned for criticizing publishers / developers is still a problem here. It is not. It has not been for years now.

Your previous bans under the earlier ownership is of no concern to me. If you stay away from that restaurant even after 36+ years, that is your decision to make. But you _are_ coming back here... so perhaps you could manage to refrain from making misleading statements about how things run here _now_.

"10. Don't annoy the moderators!"

Standing by for my next ban.

(By the way, I hope those dolphins are not real. Mine are.)

Rhino,

I don't know why you were banned previously...doesn't matter for now. I was warned and banned as well back in those days for speaking critically...that's ancient history.

This right here ↓



...is an automatic perma-ban on any forum in existence pretty much. Obviously we're looking the other way...at the moment. If you want to give your opinions, you're free to do so.

If you just want to keep firing shots at SimHQ for what happened with the previous ownership...than I guess I'll cut you loose for the infraction above. Seems like you want to be banned again for whatever reason.

Your choice.

Oooohhh.. red text. Is that the warning color?

Let's just dispense with the hypocricy, shall we?

'We don't ban people anymore because we don't like what they're saying. That's ancient history.'

'But stop bringing it up or we will ban you for saying things we don't like.'

Suggestion, though: to keep the masses in line, it's best to ban the user AND delete his posts so that the flock is not sullied by thoughts that are not in keeping with the required mindset. We want users to think they can speak freely, and that SimHQ is an open platform (as opposed to ED forums), but, in reality, the mighty ban hammer is wielded as threateningly and frequently here as it ever has been.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."



Honestly... let's not pretend things are really any different 'under new management.' New people, same censorship.

Thanks for dropping in and telling us what it is Rhino

This is your second red text warning

Holy crap Batman. Can you say shoot me now?

So I'm guessing that's a "No" on wanting to be a part of the community here? lol

Looks like you want me to ban you so it somehow makes your point valid? Clearly...someone pissed in your Cheerios and you have an axe to grind. I don't know what instance or how long ago it was, but it doesn't appear you want to get over it anytime soon.


Take a week off and think about it.

(note the color indicating importance)

^ this made my weekend