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#4490564 - 09/25/19 05:31 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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That's non sequitur. Using laws of physics that someone doesn't understand is not the same as violating them. If we don't understand all of the physical laws, then we can't say whether something violates them. But if they truly exceed all the laws of physics, they would have to be supernatural, as in, not bound by natural laws.

That was a key point I was making - if they adhere to the laws of physics, then someone figured it out. It was either humans or aliens, but someone had to gain that knowledge, and again, if the claim is aliens, then their existence has to be established before that can be a reasonable explanation, otherwise it's simply piling unknowns on top of unknowns.


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#4490569 - 09/25/19 06:11 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Non sequitur? Oh that's nonsense. If something behaves in a way our laws don't support, we'll say they violate those laws. But that doesn't mean our laws are correct. They're as good as our science and collected data allows.


Not to get too off topic, but one disturbing trend in science these days is to proclaim something is so because "models support this." Models are only as good as the above, but they aren't reality, they're a simulation.



And back to my point, these craft sometimes appear to be operating with technology not possible with our current understanding of physics, based on observations of these craft and their behavior. I have a lot of ideas of how they could work, but many of these ideas violate the law of conservation of energy or depend on spacetime manipulation which would rely on Higgs manipulation--which, only recently was even proven(theorized in 1964, took a while to prove) to exist! There's no way craft were operating utilizing technology dependent on manipulating these bosons before the technology to prove they existed through a multibillion dollar project such as CERN was built and put to use. Unless you agree that the U.S. Government is faster than all of the scientific community, which I doubt.

I'm exceptionally skeptical these craft are our own, but I'm simultaneously skeptical aliens exist--though I hope they may, but have no, as I've said before, tangible evidence to prove this. A picture or video footage is not evidence, especially in today's photoshop age.


There is another way these craft could be operating using existing theory, but the key ingredient to make it work would require violating Newton's third law.

#4490570 - 09/25/19 06:18 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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I love these alien existence threads because it really makes all the SimHQ members put their serious geek on. biggrin


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4490571 - 09/25/19 06:30 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Non sequitur? Oh that's nonsense. If something behaves in a way our laws don't support, we'll say they violate those laws. But that doesn't mean our laws are correct. They're as good as our science and collected data allows.

I think you're completely missing my point. I'm saying that if the laws of Universe allow something to happen, then it is very possible that we can figure it out, at some point. If these vehicles are functioning within the physical laws of the universe, someone learned those new things that made it possible. Why is it more likely to be "someone" we have no evidence even exists over "someone" that we have lots of evidence does exist?


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#4490572 - 09/25/19 06:36 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Because we'd have lots of scientists speculating publicly how these things operate based on existing science. We don't. Not that I've seen. But I don't even have cable television anymore, nor watch mainstream news, so I might be missing that. I read a hell of a lot though! And I don't see this being mentioned.

#4490574 - 09/25/19 06:47 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Because we'd have lots of scientists speculating publicly how these things operate based on existing science. We don't. Not that I've seen. But I don't even have cable television anymore, nor watch mainstream news, so I might be missing that. I read a hell of a lot though! And I don't see this being mentioned.

I am not sure I follow. Are you saying that because scientists aren't publicly speculating on how these craft work that they must me alien in nature? If so, wouldn't the scientists then be publicly speculating on the nature of the aliens? Wouldn't that be the bigger story?

It seems to me that if the scientists aren't discussing it, they must not feel it's interesting enough to discuss.


Ken Cartwright

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#4490582 - 09/25/19 07:36 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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What I'm saying is no scientists are talking about these craft because...

a) There's no existing tech to discuss that would be in these craft

b) There's no proof for aliens

And scientists don't like to speculate about what hasn't been proven true. That tends to hurt their future ability to procure grants for further research, and hurts their credibility making it harder for them to publish. We reserve that sort of speculation for the realm of science fiction, which I happen to be a part of. wink


We're in opposing camps it seems. You want these craft to be of Earthly origin, but myself, see hints of technology beyond what current settled science supports, thus piquing my interest and adding to my hopes we'll someday discover or encounter true alien life.

I see too much brilliance in how all life on this planet was designed and operates to accept this all came about from a spontaneous formation of self-reproducing protein producing chemicals packaged in a membrane full of dihydrogen monoxide soluble compounds.

#4490583 - 09/25/19 07:53 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Again, you ascribe views to me that aren't mine. I don't want anything. I'm just saying that without evidence, there's no reason to assume something. You have clearly said that you want to believe, which is your prerogative, but that's where we differ. If someone committed a crime, and I wanted it to be someone I didn't like, I don't think I should just assume it was and have them locked up, I should follow the evidence in an objective way. That's all I'm doing here, I am going with the evidence that is available. and there's no evidence that I have seen that shows aliens exist, let alone have been to Earth and, going further, are related to these sightings.


Ken Cartwright

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#4490594 - 09/25/19 10:12 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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"self-reproducing protein producing chemicals packaged in a membrane full of dihydrogen monoxide soluble compounds."

Ha! I dare you to say THAT, three times fast!


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4490886 - 09/30/19 12:10 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Looks like this "breaking" story has already been discarded by the news media and forgotten about. Any green little men visiting the UN building yet?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4490889 - 09/30/19 01:04 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Looks like this "breaking" story has already been discarded by the news media and forgotten about. Any green little men visiting the UN building yet?


Any sort of disclosure about this would be done in a controlled and managed way, it could be this news about the 3 videos is a part of this, like a drip feed. People have such low attention spans nowadays they forget these headlines and something else comes along to distract them.

The pilots who saw these things are trained over thousands of hours, are professional observers and if someone like Fravor says he has never seen tech like this, I believe him. I'm not saying its aliens; but if he says the things did things that our engineering cannot yet do then that is something to look into. Yes, I know there is secret tech out there but I believe that Fravor would be able to distinguish between testing of ultra secret aircraft and that of something we cannot engineer.

I'll put it this way : you seem to not believe Fravor's account where he has stated on many occasions he does not think that the thing he saw was "of this world". Tell me with your better wisdom and knowledge than him, what were they? If you have looked into this, you can see Fravor is a well respected pilot and commander, the episode of the Fighter Pilot Podcast with him in changed me from a firm skeptic to someone who now feels maybe there is more to all this stuff. I have looked and haven't found any evidence that he is a shill, in fact he has now gone very quiet about the whole affair due to him not apparently liking all the attention.

https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/035-ufos/

#4491493 - 10/04/19 11:19 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Some of the responses here are comedy gold. A group of every day people in 1962 Britain asked if they believe it life exists on other planets. smile



“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4491513 - 10/05/19 03:29 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Some of the responses here are comedy gold. A group of every day people in 1962 Britain asked if they believe it life exists on other planets. smile





Of course, you mean 1962 Australia if that was a dig towards me 😁

#4491514 - 10/05/19 03:32 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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"Do you think there is life on other planets?"
"No! I'm German!"
Lol!!!!


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4491515 - 10/05/19 03:36 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
"Do you think there is life on other planets?"
"No! I'm German!"
Lol!!!!


That was my favourite one!

#4492052 - 10/08/19 01:57 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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This may be of interest to some: Pilot Who Chased UFO Reveals A Lot More Of The Story

The article links this lengthy video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco2s3-0zsQ

No, I have not watched it.

#4492057 - 10/08/19 02:55 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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It is good, I've listened to the podcast. Though Corbell is irritating in it.

#4492735 - 10/13/19 01:52 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Has anyone watched the History channel series that these Navy reports spawned in the summer? A masterclass in chasing shadows and irrational conjecture. We've never been so close to finding the truth...just one more segment...one more episode. Money making and 15 minutes of fame.

#4492738 - 10/13/19 03:17 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Bingo Pugio.

I’m really at a loss for words at how many gullible suckers are still around. PT Barnum was so right.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4492787 - 10/13/19 09:51 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Bingo Pugio.

I’m really at a loss for words at how many gullible suckers are still around. PT Barnum was so right.


So David Fravor is either a liar or saw nothing? Fill me in on what he saw.

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