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#4492098 - 10/08/19 10:12 PM Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering  
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orbyxP Offline
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Hello,

I am happy with the new features of PE and they far outweigh any issues that I have and do not reduce added benefits of the expansion. With that being said.....

The icing on the cake would have been if these were resolved in PE as they were a bit annoying to see in WOFF UE. Unfortunately, I still see all of them. No mods or file modifications. Running vanilla WOFF PE.

#4492143 - 10/09/19 11:30 AM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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kksnowbear Online content
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Thanks... Tons of posts/comments about the sim's positives here on SimHQ; objective observations such as yours are also helpful smile

#4492234 - 10/10/19 01:34 AM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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HarryH Offline
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Hi orbyxP,

I'm one of those that posts tons of positives about this sim smile If you'd like to, PM me with your system specs and I'll try to help you optimize to tackle the BTs and stuttering.

H


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492239 - 10/10/19 02:10 AM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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HarryH Offline
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Tweaking takes time. Everyone's system is different. BUT... here's a video to show what's possible. Keep in mind that I can only capture at 60FPS. Actual framerate is a constant 72FPS in-game. Campaign, early 1917, ~ 70 aircraft in play, all low to the ground action from takeoff (most taxing on resources). My machine is not top of the line, either.

Enjoy.



System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492406 - 10/11/19 03:24 AM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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orbyxP Offline
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orbyxP  Offline
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Wow! that is cool. I'll give my specs here since maybe others can contribute. It's mainly when the frames dip into the 40s for a microsec is when the stutter occurs.

i7-6700, z270H motherboard, 16G RAM, 1080ti video, WOFF is on separate SSD drive than system drive.

#4492417 - 10/11/19 06:15 AM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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HarryH Offline
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OK your specs are better than mine, so if you're up for some serious experimenting work, you should eventually be able to get at least as good performance as I'm getting (which should equate to zero stutters except in extremely rare circumstances and only the very occasional momentary isolated pause /hiccup) if not better, and maybe at higher detail.

Are you using TrackIR?


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492453 - 10/11/19 01:51 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Yeah, sure. I'd appreciate all the help I can get.

I don't use TrackIR. So, I'm starting with vanilla game. No mods, either. The only thing I changed was a setting in the d3d8.ini (scenery folder) to NoMultisampling=1. I didn't use nvidia inspector yet, so my Nvidia control panel looks like this:

[Linked Image]


Attached Files nvidia panel.jpg
#4492464 - 10/11/19 03:04 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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HarryH Offline
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You're a brave man to fly this beast without TrackIR smile

I'll check over your Inspector settings to see if there's anything obviously wrong, but most of my optimizations have been focused on TrackIR.

Another question: do you have a G-SYNC monitor?


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492473 - 10/11/19 04:38 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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orbyxP Offline
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No, I have a plain 1440p monitor without G-Sync.

I use my VR headset to play WOFF. But for this experiment that you're helping me with, I will just use the monitor alone to first try and get rid of the stutters. Not using VR/TrackIR will eliminate one variable, IMHO.

#4492481 - 10/11/19 05:45 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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HarryH Offline
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I'm intrigued by your VR... what headset are you using and how did you get it working? I assume it links to the PC and runs a process (.exe) in the background, along with the WOFF.exe (kind of like TrackIR does)?

For me, taming the stutters has mostly come from managing TrackIR effectively and from clamping the framerate via V-SYNC / G-SYNC. So I may not be able to help you much. That said, reducing game detail in the workshop is probably going to be your simplest and quickest option for taming stutters.


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492485 - 10/11/19 06:24 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: HarryH]  
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CaptSopwith Offline
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Originally Posted by HarryH
I'm intrigued by your VR... what headset are you using and how did you get it working? I assume it links to the PC and runs a process (.exe) in the background, along with the WOFF.exe (kind of like TrackIR does)?

For me, taming the stutters has mostly come from managing TrackIR effectively and from clamping the framerate via V-SYNC / G-SYNC. So I may not be able to help you much. That said, reducing game detail in the workshop is probably going to be your simplest and quickest option for taming stutters.


Hiya Harry! I'd like to chime in and say I'd also be curious about your settings, especially with TrackIR. It also seems like the majority of the performance issues I encounter show up when I'm rapidly looking around in the sim. Thanks also for being such a kind contributor to the forums - the more information we share, the better.

Cheers!

#4492487 - 10/11/19 06:33 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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mvp7 Offline
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The blue triangle removal mod for UE used to increase performance significantly and also reduce stutter. I have a i7-6700k CPU, which is slightly faster than yours. Back in UE my fps used to be around 50 to 60 but with the mod it went to well over 100. The old mod is not currently optimized for PE but Panama Red is working on it so you might wanna keep an eye on it.
https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads....ngles-and-other-improvements#Post4491680

Other than the mod, here are couple things that have helped me with stutter: From nvidia control panel, set maximum pre-rendered frames to 2 and VSYNC the FPS as close to 60 as possible. Aka if you use 60 fps monitor use normal vsync, if you have 120 to 144 Hz monitor use adaptive vsync which halves the fps to 60 or 72. I don't think either works well with VR though (unless you are very resilient to nausea).

@HarryH. Could you elaborate on the effective TrackIR management?

#4492488 - 10/11/19 06:33 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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HarryH Offline
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Hey Capt., you're very welcome. Yep, the keys to smooth panning are three-fold;

1) Make sure your transmitter / receiver setup is as perfect as you can get it: use the TrackIR app to ensure the 3 green dots are perfectly lined up in the center of the grid.

2) Eliminate any roll curve from your WOFF profile (needs to be a zero flat line).

3) Use CPU affinity to remove TrackIR.exe from CPU zero and also set its priority to 'realtime' (save the settings permanently via a little free utility called Lasso (https://bitsum.com/automation/) )


I'm planning to put more details of the above into a helper document. There's a lot involved, so it will take me some time to assemble, but those clues will help you get started.


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492490 - 10/11/19 06:43 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: mvp7]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by mvp7


......Other than the mod, here are couple things that have helped me with stutter: From nvidia control panel, set maximum pre-rendered frames to 2 and VSYNC the FPS as close to 60 as possible. Aka if you use 60 fps monitor use normal vsync, if you have 120 to 144 Hz monitor use adaptive vsync which halves the fps to 60 or 72. I don't think either works well with VR though (unless you are very resilient to nausea).

@HarryH. Could you elaborate on the effective TrackIR management?


Seconded on the V-SYNC advice. 72FPS comes from V-SYNC being set to half refresh rate and I agree it really helps to smooth things out. You also get the added eye candy of 2058 x1440 resolution without a FR hit smile. For TrackIR see my reply above.


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492491 - 10/11/19 06:48 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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Yeah, thanks! I'll definitely take a look at that Process Lasso. Not being able to save affinity settings in Windows has largely kept me from changing them in the past.

#4492492 - 10/11/19 06:54 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: mvp7]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by mvp7
Yeah, thanks! I'll definitely take a look at that Process Lasso. Not being able to save affinity settings in Windows has largely kept me from changing them in the past.


thumbsup


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4492505 - 10/11/19 07:22 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: HarryH]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Originally Posted by HarryH
I'm intrigued by your VR... what headset are you using and how did you get it working? I assume it links to the PC and runs a process (.exe) in the background, along with the WOFF.exe (kind of like TrackIR does)?



It's easy to do using virtual desktop and opentrack. Virtual desktop is a steam app which displays your entire desktop in VR. Open track links to steamVR app to track your headset movement.

So if I enlarge my desktop enough to only see the game, then it's like I'm there.

#4492531 - 10/11/19 10:41 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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kksnowbear Online content
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Interesting all the discussion about TrackIR having such a role in the stutters (or what-have-you).

I tested a number of times without TrackIR even being on, and it made no difference. I saw the same stutters as before (in the right test, that is). Not to put too fine a point on it, but that would certainly seem (in any ordinary logic) to rule out TrackIR as a cause of the stutters.

Of course, if the view is slewed slower in the horizontal, it's going to appear smoother. But that doesn't mean it solved the stutters. In all likelihood, all that's happened is you haven't encountered the conditions that would actually cause the stutters.

Yet again, this is why it is absolutely imperative to have a test that is known to stutter at a given set of points/conditions/triggers. If you have a proper test, then you should be able to do the following:

1. Run the test, see the stutter.
2. Change (whatever mod, setting, etc it is that you're testing).
3. Re-test, and not see stutter this time.
4. Put the change(s) from step 2 back to the original state.
5. Repeat the test, see the stutters return.

If you do that, congrats - you've nailed it. If you've really solved the stutters, you would be able to repeat at will, stutters/not by making your changes(s). You should be able to repeat steps 2-5 indefinitely; that's the nature of reproducing a problem and the solution.

However, until you do that, it's not a valid reproduction/test.

By the way, kindly note I'm not saying it has to be my test. Doesn't matter whose test it is, it just has to have/not have stutters, as outlined above. If you don't like my test, no problem - make your own. But remember: It has to show stutters first, else you can't claim to have eliminated something that isn't there to being with.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 10/11/19 10:44 PM.
#4492538 - 10/11/19 11:20 PM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Re: orbyxP]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by orbyxP
Originally Posted by HarryH
I'm intrigued by your VR... what headset are you using and how did you get it working? I assume it links to the PC and runs a process (.exe) in the background, along with the WOFF.exe (kind of like TrackIR does)?



It's easy to do using virtual desktop and opentrack. Virtual desktop is a steam app which displays your entire desktop in VR. Open track links to steamVR app to track your headset movement.

So if I enlarge my desktop enough to only see the game, then it's like I'm there.


Oh, nice! Then it might be worth trying the same CPU tweaks that I mention above on your OpenTrack exe.


System: i5 8600K @ 3.6GHz,16GB DDR4 @2666MHz. RTX2080, MSI Z370 mobo, Dell 27" G-SYNC @ 144Hz. 2560x1440

#4493396 - 10/18/19 03:54 AM Re: Blue triangles, Cloud popping, Stuttering [Solved] [Re: orbyxP]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Blue triangles and Cloud popping are gone after using (and modifying) Blue Triangle MOD and HarryH's preloading clouds MOD. The extra modifications I made to the Blue Triangle MOD also reduced the amount of stutters which don't bother me anymore. I can now report that WOFF PE is stable as a ROCK!

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