Firstly, I hope this thread doesn't come off as me complaining, it's meant to be feedback and observations and nothing more. It's certainly not meant to be a platform for initiating any kind of debate either, I have no interest in participating in online speculative and adversarial discussion. Hopefully the contribution is appreciated as constructive, as I am sure it will be

First item, AI formation leads...

I shot at my flight leader today for trying to kill me. Adhering to the Vic formation as one would in July 1940 I was alarmed when my flight lead decided it would be a great idea to constantly jockey his throttle about with no regard to my personal welfare, causing me to have to barrel roll, cut my throttle to idle and even forcing me to deploy my flaps on occasion in order to avoid a collision. These alarming throttle adjustments of his, made with with no prior warning while I was maintaining the proscribed 30 ft separation, led me to the conclusion that it might be better for all of us if he was to resign his post as flight lead due to some sudden mechanical malfunction and return to base. Having decided upon this course of action as a survival measure I duly administered an octupal .30 caliber mechanical failure to his aircraft for the common good of the Squadron and in the interest of my own longevity, upon which he duly peeled off for home, whereupon I proceed to lead the rest of the formation home myself at a consistent airspeed.

Now, I well understand that I am not required by anything but my own perverse obsession with immersion to adhere to this absurd formation spacing but, even so, expecting to hold any kind of effective combat formation with a flight lead who makes such abrupt and idiotic adjustments to his airspeed, including reducing the speed of the formation from fast cruise to less than 150 Mph almost instantaneously is aggravating and dangerous. I feel as though it is linked to ground speed somehow and the cues that precipitate AI transitions between one waypoint and another. More sensible and smoother adjustments to airspeed would be appreciated if anyone ever gets the chance to look at this on a rainy day. It's not an uncommon thing, Il-2 AI did the same, WoTR AI does it too. Maybe there's no cure for it but it would be nice if there was.

FLT LT Geroge McHarg would thank you for taking a look at it some time anyway, he seems to have developed a nervous tic around me now and refuses to allow me to stand behind him under any circumstances.

Secondly, RAF negative G maneuvers...

I've noticed a significantly subdued effect of negative G on WoTR aircraft with float carburetors over other titles. My only direct and IRL experience of negative G is in a Lycoming powered aircraft which could handle this kind of state without issue. Comparing WoTR to Il-2 1946 and the other one (Cliffs of Dover or whatever it is called now) is my only frame of reference. The other titles will cut your engine off if you even look down, let alone try to ease the stick forward in anything but the most tentative way which I always thought was overdone. There's enough fuel in the lines to keep an engine running under pressure to sustain at least instantaneous negative G maneuvers and it's a refreshing change to see that WoTR acknowledges this mechanical fact. However, I have observed that both Spitfires and Hurricanes are both very keen to repeatedly "bunt" through rolling maneuvers which would not be a typical for these types given the limitations imposed upon them by their engines (and pilots). Bunting is an incredibly uncomfortable maneuver, I've experienced it myself under vastly less stressful circumstances and, even then, it was not nice having all that blood in the wrong place. Negative G can kill you if you keep shoving more blood into all those little gaps in your brain if something decided to burst. Bunting is not pleasant at all and so, under some circumstances, it does lend itself well to the purpose evasive action but performing it repeatedly in the course of rolls and high speed transitions from one plane to another is something that only very masochistic or highly experienced pilots of considerable aerobatic skill would be confident in performing. An aircraft that risks suffering fuel starvation as a result of such repeated maneuvers wouldn't exhibit the tendency to perform them as frequently as I have seen Spits and Hurris do in WoTR.

A half roll and positive G pull was more typical according to reports I have read, let the Luftwaffe types lose their lunch performing bunts, proper English gentlemen don't risk vomitous episodes in the face of the enemy, it's unbecoming and against King's regs.

Thirdly, BF-109 combat AI...

The BF-109 seems all to eager to throw away its' performance advantages and indulge in suicidal maneuvering contests with me. Maybe the 109's I've fought to date were all inexperienced? I can't say that I've had any real trouble in defeating them or felt threatened by any I have encountered. At this point I only worry about having multiple 109's saturate my situational awareness to the extent that I have a lapse and one is able to score a kill on me. Perhaps someone else with more WoTR time can offer some insight here? Do they ever extend and climb away or are they all thinking that they are still flying the Albatros? My limited experience in the Hurricane suggests that they are a little green.

Anyway, that's the sum and total of my little gripes which is a credit to the OBD team so far as I'm concerned. Being an experienced and tenured griper I'm usually pretty good at posting long laundry lists of gripes but I've found myself lacking in any such materiel with WoTR and WoFF so please keep up the good work and I hope you understand, once again, that I only mention these things because I'm profoundly invested in your superb products. I wouldn't bother wasting my time otherwise.

Great Ace Pilto thanks, but please feedback is fine, but WE DO NEED A BALANCE in these forums, everyone comes in and just mentions the bits they do not like, and not balancing with any of the good points they like. There's 100s of good things.

AI has changed a lot in 1.19 coming soon. Formations and flights have changed and much more but it will never be perfect.

The negative G comment is fairly subjective of course. Il2 looking down causes it to cut out? Even that subjectively sounds extreme to me.

Dogfighting is pretty good overall of course some of the best dogfights happen in WOTR and WOFF as many have testified.

Hi Pol, the "looking down" was hyperbole, not a subjective statement. Subjectivity generally means that something is a matter of opinion or preference. What I meant to convey was that the effect is much more convincing in WoTR than it was in Il-2, I thought Il-2 overdid the effect and was too unforgiving. To back this up I even performed a "victory roll" in the Hurri today after returning from a successful sortie and the engine behaved EXACTLY like in that famous scene from the Battle of Britain at the start where the rookie pilot does a victory roll over the refugee column so that's a testament to your work on that score! It would have been even better to get that little plume of smoke that comes out.

In fact that might even be a solution for the Flight Leader speed/throttle handling issue, if you have some kind of visual feedback from his exhausts that tells you what he's doing to his poor engine like exhaust smoke it would be authentic and helpful.

I could write a long slab of text about the things I like but that would cut into my playing time and, you know what they say: "Actions speak louder than words" I have a Hurricane pilot who needs to shoot down more Jerries and all that. I will mention though, in pursuit of that balance you mentioned, that I'm rapt with the performance, I have everything turned up in the settings and it runs perfectly. Also, your modelling of the .303 machineguns is excellent. It fits very well with the many reports I've read from the period and machine guns are no longer the trivial nuisance they were in old Il-2 (New Il-2 is also good on this score, beware the .50 cal!). The dog fighting is very intense, the AI are certainly cutting the mustard on both sides and their battles are very convincing, my comments on the 109 were based on limited experience and more of a case of me fishing for other people's experiences than any statement of fact. I'm hoping to see more diversity in 109 pilots as I my playtime goes along. I was just surprised that they were so keen to mix it up in an angles fight with my Hurricane but, to your credit, they do switch to the defensive and try to get away once they lose the advantage so their self preservation instinct has carried over to WoTR quite nicely.

Anyway they're just minor points that I thought were worth mentioning just to see what people thought. I could be completely wrong about everything (and it wouldn't be the first time).

OK I misread the cut out comment. We need support though, new users come to the forum see your post, see a few others and think mmm seems to have issues and walk away, when actually they'd probably really enjoy WOTR given half a chance.
Some balance and most people can see past the negative stuff, some of which is down to not understanding what is in there. Each AI pilot is thinking for themselves in WOTR, even when in formation, no stick or string attached, and like humans sometimes they make the wrong choice. However often people want the AI to be perfect as they are "robots" so must be correct at all times, any mistake is taken as wrong or incorrect programming, or not perfect enough.
Thanks for the positives too

Have to jump in here and put my 2 cents in as I now have many hours in WOTR Hurricanes and enough hours in the Spitty to comment here. First I am probably one of the few ( masochistic) that fly from takeoff to landing, barring being killed. I really enjoying formation flying. First, it is not easy in 1.18 and it takes a good bit of stick time to become proficient at it. Second, there are two solutions to your gripes. One, check the 'Lead Always' box in Workshop settings, problem solved. Second learn the pattern the AI leader uses every flight. Takeoff, WEP on untill caught up with the Chap in front of you. After the first turn immediately after takeoff(if there is one) know that the leader will slow to 150mph I believe it is, so the other Old Beans can catch up. Upon form up the leader will shortly after start to climb at either full throttle or 200 mph. After that usual cruise is anywhere from 185 up to 220. Turns are tough period, with constant throttle jockying and requires careful stick handling. I can honestly say if you think it is hard now, you won't want the tighter formation mod in 1.19 turned on as it becomes very realistically uncomfortable when using that. I do not see the throttling up and down issue you spoke of here. To me formation flying, from takeoff to landing, is better or at least as good as any other Sim.

The negative G could be a little more sensitive, but is a fine line and what we have is not bad.

S!Blade<><

Hmm, well I guess you're right in that this is a marketing platform Pol, feel free to do away with the thread if it bothers you. I'm not terribly fussed. I hadn't really considered that perspective which is a touch self absorbed of me. We should probably have a teamspeak or something for people to get together and chat rather than posting all our clobber on the eternal internet. The depth that goes into AI fascinates me and I get carried away.

Blade, thanks I'm aware of those options but prefer the masochistic route. You've had the cricket bat initiation so you know what I mean. I get a bit ticked off when I end up in Yellow section because nobody told me we were changing airspeed. These things are usually announced over the radio. Apart from that I'm able to hold station and keep up perfectly well but thanks for the tips.