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#4491817 - 10/07/19 10:24 AM Joker  
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I saw this last night. I really enjoyed it, hugely. I generally hate superhero movies, I think they're dumb, but this wasn't dumb, didn't make me feel stupid.

It seems to be a very polarising film, which is often indicative of a good movie, but if you believe "superhero"-esque movies should be action flicks, you possibly won't enjoy it. If you like engrossing character studies, you probably will. It seemed that after Ledger portrayed the villain there was no real reason for anyone else to ever do it, but that was wrong, Phoenix brings a new aspect to the character. His physical manifestation of his inner processes are really good, and his close-up facework is great.

Same kind of tone that Taxi Driver & King Of Comedy gave us, really.


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#4491822 - 10/07/19 10:39 AM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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I’ll be seeing this next weekend. I knew Joaquin Phoenix was a rare talent since I saw him as “Commodus” in Gladiator. It’s wild for me to think that was 19 years ago!!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4491893 - 10/07/19 03:28 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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Does the film have Batman? Joaquin is immensely talented so I bet his Joker impression is great.

I too dislike superhero movies. My eyes roll and my stomach churns even thinking about them. I love sci-fi, and it bothers me when so many in the mass media lump superhero movies in with sci-fi. Super powers aren't science. Batman, though, is really the only superhero I can tolerate because frankly, without his gadgets, which aren't implausible, he's a mortal like everyone else. I know others will say Ironman, but his saccharine special effects laden CGI films just aren't my bag.

But mainly though it is the dark complexity that comprises Batman. He's not a normal do-gooder hero, not even like the 60s TV show would make him out to be. And that darker character study is what makes him interesting. Sounds like Joker is more of that, which might be great to watch.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 10/07/19 03:31 PM.
#4491910 - 10/07/19 04:43 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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Seeing posts of outrage about the choice of music in the film, using a track by the paedophile Gary Glitter is not going down well in the UK.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
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#4491912 - 10/07/19 04:47 PM Re: Joker [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
I love sci-fi, and it bothers me when so many in the mass media lump superhero movies in with sci-fi. Super powers aren't science. .



Agreed but then you have some comic book movies like "Guardians of the Galaxy" that totally straddle the two genres. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4491918 - 10/07/19 05:35 PM Re: Joker [Re: Alicatt]  
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Originally Posted by Alicatt
Seeing posts of outrage about the choice of music in the film, using a track by the paedophile Gary Glitter is not going down well in the UK.


Indeed, stupid decision eek
Peeps in Thailand, Vietnam and a few other places are just as stunned !

Cheers,
Slug


"Major Burns isn't saying much of anything, Sir. I think he's formulating the answer..." - Radar - M*A*S*H
#4491923 - 10/07/19 05:56 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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I must ask then, how is Michael Jackson received in the UK these days?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4491924 - 10/07/19 06:08 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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If we banned or whitewashed everything from everyone who in the past committed some sort of crime or indiscretion, we wouldn't have much left to enjoy or any history left to tell.

For example, Leonardo Da Vinci, while a revered historical genius, dissected a lot of bodies. Suppose, one day, we were to tragically discover that he secretly stalked healthy and happy young peasant men and women to stock his corpse bin with fresh subjects for study. Perhaps he relished in their terror and astonishment when he informed them through glinting blade of their impending contributory misfortune. Sliced and diced without ever being on ice... annals of medicine never seemed so quite nice.

So long, Mona Lisa, right?

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 10/07/19 06:09 PM.
#4491925 - 10/07/19 06:15 PM Re: Joker [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I must ask then, how is Michael Jackson received in the UK these days?

Was Michael Jackson caught, sentenced and jailed? Gary Glitter was. Sentenced to 16 years inside where he currently is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter

Quote
The BBC described Glitter's fall from grace as "dramatic" and "spectacular". The late 1990s and onward saw his image become irreparably tarnished, following his 1997 arrest and 1999 conviction in the United Kingdom for downloading thousands of items of child pornography. He was also charged at the same time, but acquitted, of sexual activity with an underage girl in the 1970s. Later, Glitter faced criminal charges and deportation from several countries in connection with actual and suspected child sexual abuse. He was deported from Cambodia on suspected child sexual abuse charges in 2002. After settling in Vietnam, a Vietnamese court found him guilty of obscene acts with minors in 2006. After serving his sentence, Glitter was deported back to the UK where he was placed on the Sex Offenders' Register for life. In October 2012 he was arrested again as part of Operation Yewtree. He was bailed but was eventually charged, in June 2014, with historical child sex offences. On 5 February 2015, he was found guilty of attempted rape, four counts of indecent assault, and one of having sex with a girl under the age of 13 between 1975 and 1980. On 27 February 2015, he was sentenced to a total of 16 years in prison.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4491927 - 10/07/19 06:18 PM Re: Joker [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If we banned or whitewashed everything from everyone who in the past committed some sort of crime or indiscretion, we wouldn't have much left to enjoy or any history left to tell.

He is currently serving a 16 year sentence, of which he has served 4 years, so it is not in the past, his past history has shown that it was current and repeated,


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4491928 - 10/07/19 06:19 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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Not defending paedophilia as you'll hardly find more heinous of a crime, but what of the likes of Arthur C. Clarke and his fellow ilk?

While never convicted, his move to Sri Lanka and the rumors that followed certainly alluded to a darker side.

True or not, they shouldn't detract from his contribution to science fiction.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 10/07/19 06:20 PM.
#4491929 - 10/07/19 06:20 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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There's no doubt that Gary Glitter is a scumbag. I just find it interesting how in the media some celebrities seem to get a free pass while others are damned.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4491931 - 10/07/19 06:23 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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Because "correctness," Panzer, is found in the mouth of the scolder. wink

#4491957 - 10/07/19 09:14 PM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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I want to see this, but as a rental. Just don't have a lot of motivation to see a Joker movie not leading to a subsequent Batman movie. The stand alone idea just doesn't get me to the theater.
DC needs to get Snyder back and get things back in gear IMO.


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#4491969 - 10/08/19 12:20 AM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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Phoenix is a must see for me, one of my favourite actors. Like Panzer mentioned, i thought he stole Gladiator from Crowe.


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#4491990 - 10/08/19 06:40 AM Re: Joker [Re: DM]  
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RE the Gary Glitter soundbyte - I did raise my eyebrows at that, found it funny more than anything else smile but the soundbyte itself was cool, and fit the scene. It seemed to me that the movie was very 70's-centric, and heavily based on New York in that era.

Re whether Batman is represented - I don't wish to spoil anything either confirming or not, so...
The young Bruce Wayne is represented, as is his childhood trauma. But it really is more about his father Thomas Wayne.


RE whether the Joker is interesting alone - absolutely IMO. This movie would have been interesting if the character were NOT the Joker, but would probably have been lambasted for portraying mental illness in such a light. As it's a super-villain, it gets a pass for context I guess.

For me, the story was how the character or Arthur Fleck was subject to chaotic and absurd forces while suffering from a neurological condition and other personality traits, subjected by the declining entity that was the city itself. He eventually becomes that but more so, becoming the agent of chaos and absurdity rather than the victim of it. Which I found interesting as Batman of course is the opposite, bringing order to chaos. To have these polar opposites directly engage has always been the top Batman trope, Batman's background and reasons for doing an absurd activity (wearing a stupid costume, pretending to be a bat and fighting crime, something the book Watchmen handles well BTW) has been rehashed a few times, but this Joker treatment was equally (more so IMO) interesting.

Last edited by DM; 10/08/19 06:42 AM.

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