Hi Guys,

Hope you are all doing well. I'm writing with an issue I've had with WOTR since purchase. I'm currently running the latest version of WOTR and my drivers are up to date on my rig. I have the following settings dialed in on WOTR. I'm also running my nVidia settings fairly conservatively to help performance. Sim is all stock, no mods, no adjustments made to the sim.

The sim runs beautifully for 95% of the time. No stutters, no fps issues to speak of. The sim is consistently in the 50-60+ range. The only issue I'm encountering is during a dogfight. The performance of the sim begins to lag when the formations approach each other - down to 30-45 - which is fine. I've been able to isolate the issue to the following situation: either I engage or the AI engage an enemy aircraft - usually a bomber - and open fire. I can see tracer rounds and damage particles coming off of the target. The FPS then hits single digits or locks up for a second or two. Usually the fps drops to 5-8fps. I've checked my CPU and GPU and neither seem to be spiking too high - holding around 25-35% with no indications of a massive hit on the system resources. Happens every time the AI engages an enemy. Happens about 50% of the time when I'm the one doing the shooting. The easiest way to spot the issue is to fire up the British Quick Scenario where we engage a flight of He-111's. Initial merge is smooth to smooth-ish depending on the numbers, and when the AI engage (usually getting several bombers) the fps drops massively. Here's the part that I think is tied to the shooting - the moment the bomber dumps its pilots (and we see two chutes) the fps go right back up again, nice and smooth. Once another bomber is engaged and damage particles come off, fps go right back down to 5-8fps. Then more chutes, then the fps jumps back up.

I'm puzzled on this one gents. I've tweaked all of the dials in the workshop and in my nVidia control panel. I've tweaked the terrain, dropped back the detail settings, turned AA all the way down to 2x with no difference in the results. I've also done several clean installs of WOTR just to be sure and I've followed the FAQ (DirectX is also good to go). WOFF is pretty solid even when it's busy but WTOR just hasn't played well on my system no matter what I do...

Any ideas on what else I can do to make the performance in WOTR more consistent?

Many, many thanks in advance for your advice.

System Specs:
Dell XPS 8700 1903
Windows 10
Intel i7 4790 @ 3.6ghz
nVidia 1050ti GTX @ 4GB
12 GB RAM

Point of clarification, if you please: You've previously indicated you have an i7-4790 CPU....but here it's listed as a 4690 - which isn't an i7 at all. It's an i5, and the difference could be considerable.

That said, I am thinking it's just a typo...and that you actually do have a i7-4790. It would make any further discussion/comments far more accurate to know for sure

My bad! Yes, I've fixed it... typos can make a world of difference!

Can you fly a quick mission, get these fps drops to happen and maybe resolve themselves, then quit and post EnhancedShaders.log (from the WOTR "Logs" folder) here.
I don't really know what causes them for you but I have an idea about possible issue in shaders and need to check logs.

Hi AnKor - many thanks for the quick reply. Just ran through the He111 Quick Scenario. Here's the EhancedShaders.log:

0.00: DllMain - Start.
4.22: D3DWrapper::GetAdapterDisplayMode - 1920, 1080, 60, 22
4.28: D3DWrapper::GetAdapterDisplayMode - 1920, 1080, 60, 22
4.31: D3DWrapper::CreateDevice - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti (Driver Version: 26.21.14.3602)
4.31: D3DWrapper::CreateDevice - Hardware Vertex Processing
4.31: D3DWrapper::CreateDevice - Adapter: 0, Type: 1, Flags: 0x42
4.31: D3DWrapper::CreateDevice - Windowed: 0, Width: 1920, Height: 1080, Refresh: 0, Format: 22, Multisampling: 8
4.31: D3DWrapper::CreateDevice - AutoDepthStencil: 1 Format: 75
4.31: D3DWrapper::CreateDevice - SwapEffect: 1, PresentationInterval: 0, BackBufferCount: 1
4.31: D3DWrapper::CreateDevice - D3D9Ex is enabled.
4.89: FakeDevice::FakeDevice - Available Texture Memory 4095 MB
4.89: FakeDevice::FakeDevice - cfs3.exe version: 3.1.0.30203
4.89: FakeDevice::FakeDevice - Patching external FOV: 35 (0.610865)
4.89: FakeDevice::FakeDevice - Patching visibility culling.
4.89: EffectBase::CheckShaderCache
4.89: EffectBase::CheckShaderCache - OBDWW2 Wings Over The Reich
4.89: VirtualCockpit::EnableEnhancements - Patching cockpit view.
4.89: VirtualCockpit::EnableEnhancements - Zoom Settings: 0.800000 1.250000 10.000000
4.89: VirtualCockpit::EnableEnhancements - Mouse Look Speed: 1.000000
4.89: LightArray::ApplyPatch - Patching maximum dynamic light count.
4.89: DrawRecorder::DrawRecorder - Starting worker threads.
4.89: WorkerThread::WorkerThread - Number of Processors: 8
4.94: ModelBuffer::Init - SSE4.1 is available
4.94: ModelBuffer::CreateBuffers - Capacity = 1200000
4.94: ModelBuffer::Init - Available Texture Memory 4095 MB
4.95: Models::OnInit - Shadow Map Size: 2048, Filter: 1
4.95: Models::OnInit - Available Texture Memory 4095 MB
4.95: DrawRecorder::Init - Scenery Shadow Map Size: 8192
4.95: DrawRecorder::Init - Terrain Shadow Map Size: 2048
4.95: DrawRecorder::Init - Available Texture Memory 4095 MB
4.95: DrawRecorder::StartCompileShaders
4.95: CompileShaders - Starting.
4.95: EffectBase::LoadTerrainState - Season: Summer
4.96: SeaWater::CompileShaders - Sea: Calm
5.02: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: Texture.fx
5.04: TextureManager::Init - Loading TextureMagic.ini
5.13: CompileShaders - Finished.
9.49: DrawRecorder::LoadShaders - Available Texture Memory 4095 MB
9.49: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: Generic.fx
9.52: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: GroundShadow.fx
9.52: SeaWater::LoadShaders - Sea: Calm
9.52: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: SeaWater.fx
9.55: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: Scenery.fx
9.59: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: Terrain.fx
9.66: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: Clouds.fx
9.66: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: Skybox.fx
9.66: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: Models.fx
9.69: EffectBase::CreateEffect - Loading: RenderShadows.fx
9.71: DrawCalls buffer resized to 1024
9.71: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Vertex Buffer FVF = 0x1C4, Size = 32768
9.73: DrawRecorder::LogStats - T:38.0 (19.6 0) MD:0 (0.00) SC:0 TE:0 CL:0 (0;0) SP:0 SH:0 UI:1 Oth:0 LT:0
13.06: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Vertex Buffer FVF = 0x142, Size = 524288
13.06: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Index Buffer FVF = 0x142, Size = 16384
22.59: WaterBuffer::AddIndexed - Realloc Vertex Capacity: 16384
22.59: WaterBuffer::AddIndexed - Realloc Index Capacity: 16384
22.59: ModelDrawData buffer resized to 512
23.01: ModelDrawData buffer resized to 1024
23.04: DrawRecorder::LockLabelTexture - Creating Label Texture 0, Format = 21
23.27: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #1
23.27: WaterBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Water Vertex Buffer, Capacity = 16384
23.28: WaterBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Water Index Buffer, Capacity = 16384
23.60: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Vertex Buffer FVF = 0x144, Size = 32768
24.08: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #2
24.57: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #3
24.80: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #4
24.92: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #5
25.48: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Vertex Buffer FVF = 0x242, Size = 32768
25.48: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Index Buffer FVF = 0x242, Size = 16384
26.99: Clouds buffer resized to 512
27.60: DrawCalls buffer resized to 2048
28.54: ModelDrawData buffer resized to 1536
28.61: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Vertex Buffer FVF = 0x102, Size = 32768
28.61: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Index Buffer FVF = 0x102, Size = 16384
33.88: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #6
34.00: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #7
34.13: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #8
34.25: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #9
34.38: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #10
34.51: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #11
34.63: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #12
34.75: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #13
35.13: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #14
35.25: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #15
35.38: SeaWater::SetupNormals - Creating Water Normal Map #16
42.51: DrawRecorder::LogStats - T:10.3 (3.8 4733) MD:588 (2.92) SC:27 TE:25 CL:161 (27;1078) SP:12 SH:0 UI:157 Oth:12 LT:0
55.10: ModelDrawData buffer resized to 2048
55.10: DrawCalls buffer resized to 3072
55.33: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Index Buffer FVF = 0x142, Size = 32768
75.29: DrawRecorder::LogStats - T:10.0 (3.7 5649) MD:589 (2.92) SC:23 TE:21 CL:196 (27;1181) SP:4 SH:0 UI:155 Oth:1 LT:0
105.98: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Index Buffer FVF = 0x142, Size = 65536
108.08: DrawRecorder::LogStats - T:19.4 (9.1 20423) MD:1603 (2.42) SC:48 TE:36 CL:287 (27;1231) SP:118 SH:0 UI:174 Oth:12 LT:1
108.37: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Vertex Buffer FVF = 0x1C4, Size = 65536
130.06: DrawCalls buffer resized to 4096
130.78: GeometryBuffer::PopulateBuffers - Resize Vertex Buffer FVF = 0x142, Size = 1048576
140.87: DrawRecorder::LogStats - T:13.0 (5.4 7340) MD:961 (2.58) SC:23 TE:19 CL:188 (27;1291) SP:42 SH:0 UI:165 Oth:1 LT:0
173.69: DrawRecorder::LogStats - T:18.3 (6.1 763) MD:927 (2.60) SC:38 TE:36 CL:293 (27;1303) SP:509 SH:0 UI:177 Oth:1 LT:3
206.48: DrawRecorder::LogStats - T:12.9 (4.6 3439) MD:744 (2.96) SC:30 TE:30 CL:244 (27;1297) SP:99 SH:0 UI:163 Oth:1 LT:8

I appreciate the clarification. I figured that's what had happened

OK, so...

You have a very capable CPU. To give you an idea, consider that I have benchmarked many CPUs by now (I keep a database that currently has about 300 system tests in it, and that's only for the one version of the tests). A couple of the 'strongest' CPUs in these tests are i7-4770, and 4790k units. Very similar to yours; some models slightly slower in fact, and some "k" units with unlocked multipliers that are overclocked higher. The only CPUs these 47xx units don't outperform are my own 6700k, and a 10-core/20 thread monster (ex-server E5-2690v2 Xeon processor). Mind you, I don't have some of the ridiculously expensive newest-gen CPUs, which go $500-$1500, and can't afford to spend that just for testing. It's not what I'm about anyway; most everything I work with is 2-3 generations back because I don't believe in paying the ludicrous premium associated with the 'latest and greatest'.

I've built these systems for people who not only want to play high-end games with top performance (60-144 FPS, stable, depending on GPU), but also do so while 'streaming', which generally puts another very substantial load on the CPU because of H.264 video encoding necessary to run hi-res streams up to their Twitch channels online. It's a big deal, for which many of these kids are now actually being paid. Crazy but true. I've built several of these since early this year. Many of these same systems/players were just fine with running i5 CPUs when they were gaming alone - but the load imposed by the stream encoding is a big hit on the i5s, and it shows in overall performance.

My point in saying all this is very straightforward: Your CPU is more than capable of a very high level of workload. Unless you've got something running outside the sim that is just tanking your CPU performance, I doubt very seriously the CPU is the issue.

OBD doesn't specify CPU models or even generation, they just say "Intel 3.6+GHz CPU or higher. Multi-core will only help speed slightly as it will help only background processes. " It's a little confusing, to be honest, because Intel made several high-end, single-core Pentium 4 CPUs ~15 years ago that went 3.6Ghz all the way on up to 4Ghz (I owned a few of these). So, while I doubt seriously it would work very well, those P4s technically fit within the specs on the WOTR website.

In any event, your CPU meets the minimum in clock speed, and (even though the specs aren't clear) I'm going to bet that a high-end 4th-gen i7 at the specified 3.6Ghz is more than adequate. Or should be.

On the GPU side, I recall you just got that 1050Ti. Those are also fairly capable cards; granted, they're not up there with a 2080Ti (but then they also don't cost $1,000+ either, which I'm sorry, is just ludicrous IMHO).

1050Tis will run most modern games up into 40-60+ FPS at ultra settings and 1080p resolution (depending on the title, CPU used, and a few other factors). There are videos all over online showing various games, settings, etc to demonstrate this. Also some videos compare a 1050Ti to a 670 directly (though it's always true that things can vary a bit). I think it can be safely and accurately stated that there really shouldn't be much of a problem with your GPU.

The WOTR website specifies the GPU minimum as follows: "NVidia Graphics card, 670 GTX or above or equivalent AMD/ATI graphics card should be fine but not recommended. " The wording here is a little confusing as well, and I think it actually refers to a GTX-670...but in any case your 1050Ti meets that minimum, or possibly even exceeds it slightly (according to every source I can find, realizing it will vary a little depending on circumstances).

Now I do realize that all this tells you is what is not (or shouldn't be...) the problem.

I'm just trying to illustrate that your hardware isn't (or shouldn't be) the issue. Granted, you might be just at the entry point according to the specified requirements...but you are within the specs, to be clear.

So, maybe AnKor can help figure out the performance issues with WOTR. No doubt he's done some great work before, and I think he understands this part of the sim and it's limitations better than anyone.

I hope this helps somehow, and welcome any questions.

Nothing too bad in logs, I was suspecting a particular issue in my shaders, but it doesn't happen here.

About 2 minutes into the mission (at 173.69 but this includes loading time) LogStats show 18ms frametime (~55 FPS) and the only major difference is 509 sprites on screen. Now, even though CFS3 engine doesn't scale well, this doesn't look like a lot. You can try reducing effects quality if you haven't tried it already, but I don't think this is related to graphics, especially since you describe that FPS drops seem to be related to AI activity. So I can't really suggest anything.

I see you have low latency mode on in Nvidia..this must be in the newer drivers as I don't have this option in mine (I'm still on the 388.71) Sometimes newer drivers arnt always the "better ones" I'm not saying it is this however ..@Ankor do you have any experience in what the low latency mode achieves in WOTR?

Sorry if you've already tried but..Personnally try reset Nvidia settings to default I believe some WOFF users have had decent results doing that.
Drop the skins down to normal and try everything at 2 and test and increase one by one,I have Fps drops but normally only at take off. Hopefully you can get sorted soon best of luck pal.

Edit: This from POL regarding future changes..So definitely drop the skins to normal for now if you haven't already Captain.

24) Fixed an issue that prevented skins from displaying correctly when Aircraft Skin Res is set to High in Workshops.

25) Various performance improvements.

No, haven't tried it. But I agree, with DX9 being old newer drivers may not always be better.

Yep i play everything from Assassins Creed Odyssey to WOFF/WOTR on these drivers mate..Never had an issue.

This happens to me too, albeit I'm between min and recommended specs. Have tried different game and driver setting and turned off MS Security Essentials from scanning the game folder, no difference. Installed as per the textbook/FAQ.

Happens pretty well exactly as CaptSopwith describes, whether it's me hitting a target or the AI. This was taken when it was happening, in Quick Combat, nine Hurricanes against a similar number of Heinkels, between London and the south coast, but is not dependent on A/C type or location:



Also just happened when I was attacking a Stuka from a formation over Dover, again in QC. I think the others hadn't started attacking yet. I haven't watched the disk activity light for signs it's being thrashed loading textures but WotR is on an SSD. Early days but I do get the impression that changing the Workshop texture setting doesn't have much effect ie max looks a bit like min, but don't quote me on that.

Hopefully Pol might see this topic and offer some advice lads,with a bit of luck there will hopefully be some performance improvements to come.

Seems like it's pretty much a variant of the stutter issue. Often associate with loading textures on-the-fly. Very unfortunate AnKor can't do anything with it...I was really hoping it would be different, I'd genuinely like to see that fixed.

CFS3 had/has a preload.xml file which IIRC could be and was adapted to reduce load stutter by loading more of the most commonly-used .DDS textures into memory when firing up a mission, which was one of those 'must have' features for that sim and its many variations. Not sure if there is, or could be, a WoFF/WotR equivalent. Attached is mine from my CFS3 ETO expansion, file type changed was well as name, as you can't attach .xml files here.


EDIT - I see WotR already has one of these but can't see if the textures in question - assuming they really are an issue - are included.

One of the preloaded files is shellcasing.DDS which is presumably the texture for the spent cases from Brownings, which is (i) at 342 Kb not massive, but approx four times the average texture size, and (ii) possibly required to be rendered an awful lot of times, when one or more RAF fighters are firing at eight times 1000-plus rounds per minute. I wonder if renaming that texture temporarily so it's not used, or if that crashes the sim producing a much smaller texture for what is after all a tiny object, would be a useful test.

Edit - I see that one of my CFS3 installs has that file at 17Kb so I will try that out and report back.

The way you describe the problem, it sounds as if it's something in the campaign engine getting bogged down trying to keep track of the changes in health and experience of the various crews during combat.

You make a good point, and it's been brought up before about that caching file...but something of note to consider:



It seems that this indicates the stutter occurs after the bullets have impacted, IOW not just as they're being generated by firing.

Or so it seems. Just a thought.

Could well be Major,I've mentioned previously that I have small fps drops during take off (engine smoke? Trees?) I'm not sure what may cause that and also if I'm over/near an airfield that's getting bombed and there's lots of explosions I get Fps drops so I'm wondering if it could be smoke related?

@KKsnowsbear you can't help yourself can you..Capt Sopwith doesn't mention Stutters he mentions FPS drops. You own neither sim by OBD but continue with you 1 man quest to try to "#%&*$#" all over OBDS great work. The only threads you seem to post on here on SimHQ are the OBD ones yet as mentioned..you own neither sim. Absolutely pathetic.

The description is that of a textbook stutter. What's pathetic is all the ways that are being used to go about saying it while trying to avoid calling it what it is. It's all the same thing. Frame rate drops sharply due to (factor/factors yet not clear, but definitely related), resulting in momentary pauses of up to a second or more.

You need to let go of the carrying on about how I don't own this. First of all, others are making reports, not me. And they *do* own it. Secondly, I've already explained many times: No one has to own anything to recognize there are issues with it. Literally millions of people who never owned Chevy Vegas still know all about the rust problems they had.

The real sad part is that this ongoing refusal to accept and openly discuss this issue will absolutely keep it from ever being corrected (if there's even anything that can be done). It is possible that anything that corrects the kind of problem being reported here, might also be helpful in resolving other similar issues. They all seem very closely related.

But you're never going to get that far if you're busy denying it.

I wasn't talking to you, and I'm pretty sure you've ignored me long ago...so why don't you just state your perspectives/oopinions, and let others do the same? That is what discussion forums are for...discussion. Sorry someone doesn't share your opinion, but that's life.

Openly discuss? It's been discussed for years you bring it up time and time again..others have given their opinions but you won't accept them. Don't try to patronise I know the difference between Fps drops and stutters.

Il spell it out once again so that even a 5 yr old can understand .. I Personnally see no stutters in WOFF or WOTR others do..I have Fps drops at times but not stutters,I fly BOB2 I have Fps drops but NOT stutters I fly BOX series and DCS and I See FPS drops AND at times Stutters so has you can see I can Distinguish between a difference. Why do you continue your quest. with just OBDS sims? You've had answers in the past but you choose to ignore them ..because YOU won't accept other opinions

BTW Sorry but you're wrong about this, too. I also am active over on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum, and I'm also involved with SimHQ members outside the forum (in real life) from time to time. You seem to keep forgetting this.