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#44909 - 10/30/01 01:42 PM "Doghouse" analyses  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 7
Ghost Offline
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Ghost  Offline
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Posts: 7
Argentina
Back in February, "Badboy" and "Boxer" wrote a wonderful article comparing the F4 doghouse diagrams for the Mig 29 and the F16. The insights are really neat and applicable to our flying tactics.

Badboy/Boxer...any chances of getting another installment, perhaps with the Su-27 or the Mig 23 or the Mig 21?

Ghost


na
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#44910 - 11/02/01 01:34 AM Re: "Doghouse" analyses  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Ghost


Huh???????
Just what are ya trying to say there Hot Dog?
Ya mind giving us all a link to follow or sumthing?....and may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits if ya don´t!!!

just kidding!!


Later

Jalapeno Pepper

#44911 - 11/02/01 03:29 AM Re: "Doghouse" analyses  
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Andy Bush Offline
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Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,955
St Charles, MO
Ghost

I guess what you are asking for is a comparison of the F-16 in Falcon 4 against those 3 aircraft.

You would not gain much from studying difference diagrams for the F-16 vs a MiG-21 or 23. The F-16 has such a large performance advantage over either one (particularly the Flogger) that not much new or useful would be learned.

Now the Flanker is a different matter. The first problem is to identify which model of the aircraft and what weight, configuration, and altitudes are in question. Having decided on that, then we could go on to charting their respective flight envelopes.

I'll mention this question to Leon. Until he weighs in, I can assure you that if you apply the same basic lessons learned from the Falcon/Fulcrum match-up, you won't be too far off the mark.

Andy

#44912 - 11/02/01 04:00 AM Re: "Doghouse" analyses  
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Spoons Offline
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The article in question is at:

http://www.SimHQ.com/simhq3/sims/air_combat/F4_FM_compare/



------------------
John Sponauer
SimHQ.com
jsponauer@SimHQ.com


John Sponauer
SimHQ.com
jsponauer@simhq.com
#44913 - 11/02/01 04:05 AM Re: "Doghouse" analyses  

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Spoons


Thnx for da link.

Later

Jalapeno Pepper

#44914 - 11/02/01 09:40 AM Re: "Doghouse" analyses  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 7
Ghost Offline
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Ghost  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 7
Argentina
Andy:

Thanks for your reply. I should have anticipated your observation on the Mig 21 and Mig 23.

It still would be neat to see the analyses for other aircraft, even if they are close.

If we get a Vietnam add-on I'm sure here will be a large demand for info on how to fight the F-4, and F-8 against the Russian fighters of that era.

Anyway..guess I'm always curious about even small differences that can be exploited in ACM.

I just read Wilcox' "Wings of Fury" describing the training and development in the US fighter community between Vietnam and the Gulf war. Somewhere here makes the point (with examples) of 2 types of fighter pilot styles...one that almost totally relies on training-based instinct and "feel" and the other that is more based on people effectively having memorized large portions of the doghouse plots of their fighters and the Migs they'd be up against.

Our trusty old F4 cannot give is "seat of the pants" (and as a glider pilot - who hardly ever looks in the cockpit - I really miss that) so I like to make sure I fly "by the numbers" as best as possible.

Anyway...you're point is well taken. If the differences are minimal then its a moot point.

Cheers

Ghost


na
#44915 - 11/03/01 08:04 PM Re: "Doghouse" analyses  
Joined: Apr 2006
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Badboy Offline
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UK
Quote
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ghost:
Back in February, "Badboy" and "Boxer" wrote a wonderful article comparing the F4 doghouse diagrams for the Mig 29 and the F16. The insights are really neat and applicable to our flying tactics.

Badboy/Boxer...any chances of getting another installment, perhaps with the Su-27 or the Mig 23 or the Mig 21?

Ghost
</font>


Hi Ghost

Regarding the Su-27, that analysis has already been done, just hasn't been published. I just checked the curves and the F-16 has a Ps advantage over the entire envelope. Certainly I think the MiG-29 v F-16 engagement was the most interesting Viper comparison.

However, isn't it true that folk can now fly any of the aircraft in Falcon4? Because it might be interesting to compare some of the other match ups, like the F4 Phantom v some of the early MiGs. It would be interesting to see how that stacks up against what we know today about how they performed back then.

I began further EM analysis for the aircraft being worked on by the F4 Model Group but they only got as far as the F-18 before the group died, and the resulting F-18 (the work of a guy called Hedgehog) was porked. So if I published that analysis it would look slightly strange [Linked Image]

Other than that, the only further work on Falcon4 that I had considered doing was a series of articles on flight modelling, that I hoped would be helpful for folk trying to edit the Falcon4 aircraft.

Having said all that, I'm still tied up with another sim' project, following that I have a commitment to AH that I need to fulfill, and I must find time to help another author analyse the P-38 for his work. I'd really like to do more with Falcon4 but I'm spreading myself pretty thin... Seems there are more things I'd like to do, want to do, and would do, if I only had the time! I figure that if I didn't need to sleep, I might just catch up with it all [Linked Image]

So what's the deal with Falcon4, are there still many folk playing it? You really think further work on Falcon4 would get many readers?

Badboy


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