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#4490213 - 09/22/19 01:54 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
Originally Posted by cichlidfan
You guys are hilarious. All I meant was that a hummingbird does not need to understand the physics of flight in order to do what it does naturally. Mr. B might be well educated but that does not mean he is correct.


humming birds don`t fly at 1.915 km/h !! they would break their neck if they did the same movement at that speed.


Actually that is incorrect. Unless they hit a window they will do just fine.


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#4490331 - 09/23/19 04:04 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/unidentified-flying-object-navy.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fus&action=click&contentCollection=us&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=14&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0


Quoting,

Quote

“Well, we’ve got a real-world vector for you,” the radio operator said, according to Commander Fravor. For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.

...

Then, Commander Fravor looked down to the sea. It was calm that day, but the waves were breaking over something that was just below the surface. Whatever it was, it was big enough to cause the sea to churn.

Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape. The craft was jumping around erratically, staying over the wave disturbance but not moving in any specific direction, Commander Fravor said. The disturbance looked like frothy waves and foam, as if the water were boiling.

...

The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance.

They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft.

“Sir, you won’t believe it,” the radio operator said, “but that thing is at your cap point.”

“We were at least 40 miles away, and in less than a minute this thing was already at our cap point,” Commander Fravor, who has since retired from the Navy, said in the interview.

By the time the two fighter jets arrived at the rendezvous point, the object had disappeared.

...

“I have no idea what I saw,” Commander Fravor replied to the pilot. “It had no plumes, wings or rotors and outran our F-18s.”

But, he added, “I want to fly one.”



That was in 2004.

What drones do we have /now/ that can fly up to 80,000 feet, have no wings or rotors or reactive propellant exhaust systems that can travel 60 miles in a flash and cause the sea to boil when near it due to emissive heat or some other form of radiation?

That is unknown to even our /own/ government. Normally known entities are classified "top secret." This seems not to have been.

According to another article, https://www.space.com/navy-ufo-videos-authentic-classified.html

Quote

According to The Black Vault, the videos may have been improperly released by a former Pentagon employee who had applied for permission to share them across several government agencies as part of a database on unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) he was allegedly compiling. The man received permission to share the videos for "[US Government] Use Only," paperwork obtained by The Black Vault shows. However, Navy officials never declassified the footage for public release, Gradisher said.




And then then there's this:

https://www.universetoday.com/143478/venus-could-have-supported-life-for-billions-of-years/

Just how much do we really know. While we might be making its head spin by transitioning from walking, bipedal life forms to flying, diving and spacefaring creatures in the span of 150 years, do we truly know as much as we think we do?

#4490369 - 09/23/19 11:45 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Again, even if these craft were doing things that seem impossible, someone built them and they are operating in our environment. So which requires fewer leaps, that they are top secret craft built on Earth, or that they are alien in origin? The only things that needs to be explained if they were built on Earth is how they did it, and what are they doing. If you throw in aliens, you add another item that needs to be explained. You'd need to explain how they were built, what they are doing, and the origin.

We have historical evidence of top secret vehicles being revealed long after they were put into use that could do things no one knew about, but we have no evidence of alien visitors at all. Given the choice, I think it's just more logical to go with the Occam's Razor approach.

I remember as a kid I would read about UFO reports and things, and one of the things many reports would point out as corroborating evidence was that the craft were tracked on radar. Of course now we know about stealth capabilities, so it seems that if they didn't want to be detected, they could have used stealth capabilities, if they are more advanced than us. Some may say that maybe the aliens just don't care about being detected, and maybe they don't, but then why are they so coy?

That's another thing that you'd have to explain if they're aliens, and anything you come up with would just be a guess. If they're of Earthly origin, it would still be guesswork, but as I said earlier, we have seen similar things happen so we have more of a basis for any conjecture.


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#4490373 - 09/24/19 12:01 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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What if they are not aliens, but ancient humans, far more advanced than us ? so its not our tech but made on earth.

#4490379 - 09/24/19 12:49 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
What if they are not aliens, but ancient humans, far more advanced than us ? so its not our tech but made on earth.

The same. Until there is some form of solid evidence that ancient humans with advanced technology, or aliens, or whatever, even exist, let alone are here now, there will always be at least one additional unknown to prove for them to be responsible for this.

Again, we have evidence that modern humans build high-performance craft, and have evidence that modern humans build some of them and keep their capabilities, and even their existence, secret for many years, but we have no evidence of aliens, ancient civilizations more advance than modern ones, etc., so why go with the option that requires even more evidence?

Why don't we just say that aliens visited ancient Earth, took humans to their home planet as slaves, who then overthrew their alien overlords, stole their technology, built a time machine to go back in time, accidentally made dinosaurs smart, who then stole their time machine and went back to the future, built these craft, and are now buzzing about making sure us modern humans don't build time machines to go back and muck it up for them. There is exactly the same amount of evidence to support that as aliens or ancient civilizations.


Ken Cartwright

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#4490380 - 09/24/19 12:59 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Arthonon]  
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Originally Posted by Arthonon
Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
What if they are not aliens, but ancient humans, far more advanced than us ? so its not our tech but made on earth.

The same. Until there is some form of solid evidence that ancient humans with advanced technology, or aliens, or whatever, even exist, let alone are here now, there will always be at least one additional unknown to prove for them to be responsible for this.

Again, we have evidence that modern humans build high-performance craft, and have evidence that modern humans build some of them and keep their capabilities, and even their existence, secret for many years, but we have no evidence of aliens, ancient civilizations more advance than modern ones, etc., so why go with the option that requires even more evidence?

Why don't we just say that aliens visited ancient Earth, took humans to their home planet as slaves, who then overthrew their alien overlords, stole their technology, built a time machine to go back in time, accidentally made dinosaurs smart, who then stole their time machine and went back to the future, built these craft, and are now buzzing about making sure us modern humans don't build time machines to go back and muck it up for them. There is exactly the same amount of evidence to support that as aliens or ancient civilizations.

no one here is sugesting they are aliens, what we are saying is, IT WASNT US AND ITS OUT THERE !

#4490381 - 09/24/19 01:07 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
Originally Posted by Arthonon
Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
What if they are not aliens, but ancient humans, far more advanced than us ? so its not our tech but made on earth.

The same. Until there is some form of solid evidence that ancient humans with advanced technology, or aliens, or whatever, even exist, let alone are here now, there will always be at least one additional unknown to prove for them to be responsible for this.

Again, we have evidence that modern humans build high-performance craft, and have evidence that modern humans build some of them and keep their capabilities, and even their existence, secret for many years, but we have no evidence of aliens, ancient civilizations more advance than modern ones, etc., so why go with the option that requires even more evidence?

Why don't we just say that aliens visited ancient Earth, took humans to their home planet as slaves, who then overthrew their alien overlords, stole their technology, built a time machine to go back in time, accidentally made dinosaurs smart, who then stole their time machine and went back to the future, built these craft, and are now buzzing about making sure us modern humans don't build time machines to go back and muck it up for them. There is exactly the same amount of evidence to support that as aliens or ancient civilizations.

no one here is sugesting they are aliens, what we are saying is, IT WASNT US AND ITS OUT THERE !

If you are saying it wasn't us, then you need to have evidence it was someone else, otherwise, your claim is baseless. In fact, I think you'd first need to provide evidence that someone else who could possibly do it even exists.


Ken Cartwright

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#4490382 - 09/24/19 01:20 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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We don't have to prove Aliens exist for the same reason we don't have to prove God exists. If we want to believe, we can. If you insist they do not exist--not simply by stating that, "I faithfully believe that they do not exist," then you must offer proof. Otherwise, you are guessing just as much as we are, and exercising personal faith.

I don't know whether aliens exist or don't exist. I crave tangible evidence. But I want to believe, and I'm okay enough with that.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 09/24/19 01:21 AM.
#4490387 - 09/24/19 03:10 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
We don't have to prove Aliens exist for the same reason we don't have to prove God exists. If we want to believe, we can. If you insist they do not exist--not simply by stating that, "I faithfully believe that they do not exist," then you must offer proof. Otherwise, you are guessing just as much as we are, and exercising personal faith.

I don't know whether aliens exist or don't exist. I crave tangible evidence. But I want to believe, and I'm okay enough with that.

Of course you can believe whatever you like, but for it to have any meaning outside of your head, you need some kind of proof.

I don't need to prove something doesn't exist, because I'm not really claiming anything. If that's the way the world worked, people would have to prove their innocence, or prove they don't owe someone money, or anything else anyone claimed. The burden is always on the person making claim. I'm not saying that they do not exist, I'm saying there's no evidence that they do, and I see no reason to assume they do until some is provided.


Ken Cartwright

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#4490391 - 09/24/19 03:24 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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#4490392 - 09/24/19 03:27 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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These objects could easily be robots of a very advanced civilization whose function is to explore, find and study. Voyager 1 and 2 are traveling in interstellar space far from our solar system in which they were launched. If they are seen passing by by astronauts of some other civilization does that mean there is no evidence that humans exist ?


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4490395 - 09/24/19 04:14 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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You mean Voyager.

Viking 1 and 2 landed on Mars.

#4490400 - 09/24/19 05:05 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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edited to Voyager thanks


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4490407 - 09/24/19 10:19 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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Originally Posted by Haggart
These objects could easily be robots of a very advanced civilization whose function is to explore, find and study. Voyager 1 and 2 are traveling in interstellar space far from our solar system in which they were launched. If they are seen passing by by astronauts of some other civilization does that mean there is no evidence that humans exist ?


this is very possible.


I dont know.. I really want to know what they are... its kind of sad they jammed F/A-18 radar though.. its cleary indication she doesnt want to have a direct contact with us.

#4490409 - 09/24/19 10:43 AM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
We don't have to prove Aliens exist for the same reason we don't have to prove God exists. If we want to believe, we can. If you insist they do not exist--not simply by stating that, "I faithfully believe that they do not exist," then you must offer proof. Otherwise, you are guessing just as much as we are, and exercising personal faith.

I don't know whether aliens exist or don't exist. I crave tangible evidence. But I want to believe, and I'm okay enough with that.



Thanks for supporting my main point that belief in extra-terrestrial life and belief in a "god" are both based on faith due to the lack of hard empirical evidence. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4490430 - 09/24/19 03:09 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: nadal]  
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Well, it's true Panzer. There is no proof beyond some video and stories. Lots of speculation, though.

Originally Posted by nadal
Originally Posted by Haggart
These objects could easily be robots of a very advanced civilization whose function is to explore, find and study. Voyager 1 and 2 are traveling in interstellar space far from our solar system in which they were launched. If they are seen passing by by astronauts of some other civilization does that mean there is no evidence that humans exist ?


this is very possible.


I dont know.. I really want to know what they are... its kind of sad they jammed F/A-18 radar though.. its cleary indication she doesnt want to have a direct contact with us.


Can you blame them? After all the genocide of the 20th century, what kind of advanced intelligent life would want to make contact with us? We're animals.

#4490431 - 09/24/19 03:10 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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I've never been satisfied with the "I want to believe, so I will" mentality. Especially when it comes to religion, but the same goes for the whole alien idea. There are similarities. There are those who swear they saw the little green (now they're grey) aliens. And some who say they've been taken aboard a spaceship, and there are those who swear that they saw Christ standing in front of them in their bedroom, and some who say they had a near death experience and went to Heaven.
The same goes for some of the arguments against both of these entities. If there are beings from another planet down here, why are they so elusive? Why are they seen by so few? Why don't they just show themselves? The same goes for belief in a god. Why wouldn't he show himself if he were true? Why is he seen be so few. Why does he make no attempt to communicate with us?
I've never been relgious. You have to show me more than some words in a book to get me to believe. But, at least, with the UFO sightings we have something. But it doesn't mean aliens, neccessarily. Hell, it could be beings, right here, from another dimension for all I know.
But, the pilots saw something. And it certainly was strange.

Last edited by Pooch; 09/24/19 03:11 PM.

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#4490432 - 09/24/19 03:13 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman

Can you blame them? After all the genocide of the 20th century, what kind of advanced intelligent life would want to make contact with us? We're animals.





Of course this makes the big assumption that the advanced intelligent life isn't a blood thirsty expansionist species like we have been for most of our history. wink


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4490433 - 09/24/19 03:20 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Haggart]  
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If they were, why haven't they destroyed us yet? How many times do you need to survey a planet over many centuries before you jump the mother fleet in? Stories of aliens go way back, if any of them are to be believed. And if any Type 2+(on the Kardashev scale) alien civilization wanted us dead, there's nothing we could do about it.

The battle would be similar to a biplane attacking the NCC-1701-D USS Enterprise from Next Generation. =)

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 09/24/19 03:22 PM.
#4490434 - 09/24/19 03:27 PM Re: The US Navy just confirmed these UFO videos are the Real Deal [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If they were, why haven't they destroyed us yet?



They simply haven't found us yet. The universe is a big place to put it mildly.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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