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#4346500 - 03/24/17 12:56 PM How do naval aviators land airliners ?  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 229
RANSs9 Offline
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RANSs9  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 229
"Like everybody else",
"Badly" (according to anyone in the USAF).
Okay not strictly air combat but interested to know. If when landing an airliner (not on autothrottle) they use Three Part Throttle movements on approach as they did on finals to the boat?

TIM

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#4346615 - 03/24/17 07:11 PM Re: How do naval aviators land airliners ? [Re: RANSs9]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,509
Deacon211 Offline
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Deacon211  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,509
Louisville, KY
Hehe, it takes a little getting used to, but conceptually it all works the same. Plus, every carrier pilot flew something (T-34s, T-6s, whatever) that was conventionally configured before he plowed his first carrier trainer into the runway without flaring.

The hardest part is to learn how to be less nit picky about your energy state. Instead of constantly making 3 part power corrections, you can afford to make a correction, see what it does, adjust, etc just like any other plane. The notion is the same it's just that you have a little gravy to work with. After awhile, I'm not sure that I could have told you what service the guy I flew with came from.

Your question reminds me of a funny story though:

When I was flying in Kingsville, I went with a couple other guys up to Dallas to get a 737 type rating. The training was conducted in the sim.

The 737 has a pair of trim switches that are a little different than the China Hat most tactical pilots (and simmers wink ) are familiar with. You can sort of "click" them, but there is the tiniest amount of delay and the trim runs just a bit longer when you let them go. There's a slight feeling of momentum I guess you could say. So it can be something of an exercise to really make those fine adjustments and I think most guys just accept that you are going to have to muscle the aircraft around a bit. The trim is also connected to a pair of big trim wheels on either side of the throttle quadrant. You've seen them in FSX I'm sure. They are about the size and shape of a frisbee and have handles recessed into them for hand cranking the trim should it be necessary (and if you forget to put the handles back in they are also highly effective at massively bruising your leg). They also have white stripes painted on them to act as a visual indicator that the wheels (and thus the trim) is moving.

It is not uncommon on a dark and lonely night for you and your fellow pilot to sit casually in your "cruise altitude slouch" watching the trim wheel slowly spin like Robert Shaw in Jaws watching his reel and wondering, "Why the heck is it doing that?"

Anyway, the wheel is not quiet. The planes are old, the wheel can spin quite fast, and, if there was ever an attempt to balance them, the benefits of that encounter are long gone.

It's worse in the sim.

The sim is also much quieter in a general sense. The instructor can control the ambient sounds and, though I'm sure he feels that gravelly voices that come from shouting all day are pretty cool, he'd just rather speak in a conversational tone.

But he can't control the volume of the trim wheel.

So here I am in the sim on my first couple of nights and I am trimming the hell out of this thing. I'm also making way more power corrections than I really have any need to, which all require trim changes of their own. Basically, I'm flying the 73 like a big T-45.

"Landing Gear down, Flaps 15!"

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt! Zzzzzzzzzt! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

"Flaps 25, Speed 150!"

Zzzzzzzt! Zzzt! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

"Flaps 30, set Vref, Before Landing Checklist"

Zzzzzt! Zzzt! Zzzzt! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzt!


When from out of nowhere my instructor, who had been listening to me and my sim partner do this for the last three days, yells:

"Jesus Christ! Will you stop with all the #$&^Y&^*@@#$4ing trimming! What the !@#T $%^^&*ing #$#%^ is wrong with you!"


I didn't trim so much after that... biggrin

#4346774 - 03/25/17 10:40 AM Re: How do naval aviators land airliners ? [Re: RANSs9]  
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RANSs9 Offline
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RANSs9  Offline
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Posts: 229
Liked the story. It's always those insightful remarks from instructors that make it all worthwhile.
"The hardest part is to learn how to be less nit picky"....I'll make a note to remind my wife.

Have a good weekend..TIM

#4383037 - 10/04/17 09:24 AM Re: How do naval aviators land airliners ? [Re: RANSs9]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
Yassy Offline
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Yassy  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
Low Countries
My experience is that military aviators also need to grasp the concept of 'passenger comfort'. biggrin


-132nd Virtual Fighter Wing-
#4383462 - 10/06/17 08:29 AM Re: How do naval aviators land airliners ? [Re: RANSs9]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,504
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,504
Tokyo, Japan
adapting to the company's policy has got to be the biggest challenge. after years of flying for the military it must be a big effort to do things the way the new company tells you to do them. if you can't or don't do it their way they won't pass your checkride and if they catch you out on a line check you'll be in doodoo.

Last edited by VF9_Longbow; 10/06/17 08:30 AM.
#4486787 - 08/20/19 01:49 PM Re: How do naval aviators land airliners ? [Re: Deacon211]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,586
semmern Offline
Veteran
semmern  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,586
Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted by Deacon211
Hehe, it takes a little getting used to, but conceptually it all works the same. Plus, every carrier pilot flew something (T-34s, T-6s, whatever) that was conventionally configured before he plowed his first carrier trainer into the runway without flaring.

The hardest part is to learn how to be less nit picky about your energy state. Instead of constantly making 3 part power corrections, you can afford to make a correction, see what it does, adjust, etc just like any other plane. The notion is the same it's just that you have a little gravy to work with. After awhile, I'm not sure that I could have told you what service the guy I flew with came from.

Your question reminds me of a funny story though:

When I was flying in Kingsville, I went with a couple other guys up to Dallas to get a 737 type rating. The training was conducted in the sim.

The 737 has a pair of trim switches that are a little different than the China Hat most tactical pilots (and simmers wink ) are familiar with. You can sort of "click" them, but there is the tiniest amount of delay and the trim runs just a bit longer when you let them go. There's a slight feeling of momentum I guess you could say. So it can be something of an exercise to really make those fine adjustments and I think most guys just accept that you are going to have to muscle the aircraft around a bit. The trim is also connected to a pair of big trim wheels on either side of the throttle quadrant. You've seen them in FSX I'm sure. They are about the size and shape of a frisbee and have handles recessed into them for hand cranking the trim should it be necessary (and if you forget to put the handles back in they are also highly effective at massively bruising your leg). They also have white stripes painted on them to act as a visual indicator that the wheels (and thus the trim) is moving.

It is not uncommon on a dark and lonely night for you and your fellow pilot to sit casually in your "cruise altitude slouch" watching the trim wheel slowly spin like Robert Shaw in Jaws watching his reel and wondering, "Why the heck is it doing that?"

Anyway, the wheel is not quiet. The planes are old, the wheel can spin quite fast, and, if there was ever an attempt to balance them, the benefits of that encounter are long gone.

It's worse in the sim.

The sim is also much quieter in a general sense. The instructor can control the ambient sounds and, though I'm sure he feels that gravelly voices that come from shouting all day are pretty cool, he'd just rather speak in a conversational tone.

But he can't control the volume of the trim wheel.

So here I am in the sim on my first couple of nights and I am trimming the hell out of this thing. I'm also making way more power corrections than I really have any need to, which all require trim changes of their own. Basically, I'm flying the 73 like a big T-45.

"Landing Gear down, Flaps 15!"

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt! Zzzzzzzzzt! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

"Flaps 25, Speed 150!"

Zzzzzzzt! Zzzt! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

"Flaps 30, set Vref, Before Landing Checklist"

Zzzzzt! Zzzt! Zzzzt! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzt!


When from out of nowhere my instructor, who had been listening to me and my sim partner do this for the last three days, yells:

"Jesus Christ! Will you stop with all the #$&^Y&^*@@#$4ing trimming! What the !@#T $%^^&*ing #$#%^ is wrong with you!"


I didn't trim so much after that... biggrin


Haha! Good story! biggrin

The trim wheel in the 737 also works as a very good indicator when something isn’t right. If it is trimming away like mad and it shouldn’t, you get a very loud and rotating reminder wink


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4487382 - 08/24/19 10:08 PM Re: How do naval aviators land airliners ? [Re: RANSs9]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 911
tascaso Offline
Member
tascaso  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 911
The key to any good landing is an excellent, stabilized approach. It all starts there...

Toodles,

Wilcke


<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
S!

Wilcke
<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
#4489140 - 09/11/19 05:20 PM Re: How do naval aviators land airliners ? [Re: Yassy]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 162
hunter1 Offline
Member
hunter1  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 162
Italy , Florence
Originally Posted by Yassy
My experience is that military aviators also need to grasp the concept of 'passenger comfort'. biggrin

Nooo , naval pilot mount a arrestor hook on 737 .......LOL


Moderated by  Andy Bush, RacerGT 

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