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#4486535 - 08/17/19 11:53 PM where are the f-35 sims?  
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Agathosdaimon Offline
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all the cost blowouts and debate over whether the f-35 is actually better than the 11%combat readiness reported in the recent news, it occurred to me that i dont think i have seen a single f-35 sim anywhere in any form, am i right?

just think in the 90s there were sims or the RAH-66 and F-22 for nearly every year of that decade and even the yf-23 appeared in Jetfighter if i am going by its box art. The RAH-66 never even was built let alone tested and even into the 2000s it still appears (am i correct that it was never even built and tested)

yet no F-35 sims? 17 years on since its production (and production still) and not even an action sim? i would like to certainly play a sim of it it one exists

#4486579 - 08/18/19 02:10 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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After the 90s that frequency of those types of sims totally died.



Lockheeds Prepar 3d has an F-35.......albeit not a combat sim

The F-35A/B/C are in Strike Fighters 1/2 as fun free mods. (The SF phone games have them in albeit not sims)

There was a similar fun mod for DCS

One is being worked on for Falcon BMS

Someone tried to do an accurate F-35 via Kickstarter years back for DCS.............but was not funded unsurprisingly as it could never have been accurate at all.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#4486594 - 08/18/19 04:49 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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Arma 3 has it as a mod.

#4486636 - 08/19/19 07:06 AM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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thanks - that is interested regarding Strike Fighters - i had strike fighters 2 a few years back but i lost my install and so i think i have to buy it again

overall though yes a specific breed of flight sim really did seem to die at the end of the 90s - i wouldnt mind if that type of action flight sim came back! luckily many of the novalogic ones are still playable on windows 10

#4486678 - 08/19/19 03:54 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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What about Joint Strike Fighter?



There was also few versions modelled in Energy Airforce series for PS2 and XBOX360 (Over G Fighters). I know it's an arcade flight sim, but Energy Airforce Aimstrike for PS2 was aiming at realistic gameplay. Check out my playlist on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rlWqwQmLo&list=PLIku_oD9y-RCiKU0B4SY63ldfC8saeJs4

There is prototype X-35 (F-35C) and F-35B (SVTOL) featured in the game, though I still didn't unlocked the B variant and still haven't flown C variant in my playthrough.

#4486739 - 08/20/19 12:51 AM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: damson]  
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Originally Posted by damson
What about Joint Strike Fighter?



There was also few versions modelled in Energy Airforce series for PS2 and XBOX360 (Over G Fighters). I know it's an arcade flight sim, but Energy Airforce Aimstrike for PS2 was aiming at realistic gameplay. Check out my playlist on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rlWqwQmLo&list=PLIku_oD9y-RCiKU0B4SY63ldfC8saeJs4

There is prototype X-35 (F-35C) and F-35B (SVTOL) featured in the game, though I still didn't unlocked the B variant and still haven't flown C variant in my playthrough.



oh wow , i know of jsf but i never knew it had an f-35 in it, heck i didnt realise the concept for the f-35 was around back then and known about enough that it was in a game

i just thought jsf was some fictional plane only and so ignored it but now i need to take a look at it again!


- edit, i though jsf was much older but i see it was from 1997 - can i run it on windows 10?

Last edited by Agathosdaimon; 08/20/19 12:55 AM.
#4486761 - 08/20/19 08:45 AM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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It runs on Windows 10 (actually that clip was recorded on Windows 10) but your mileage may vary. I found that running the game in higher res makes it more unstable and prone to crash.

Note that the cockpit is not really authentic. At the time it was not really known much about the plane. On the other hand the depiction in Energy Airforce Aimstrike on PS2 (from 2003) is true to life - here's a mission I have flown yesterday in X-35.


Attached Files X-35A_Cockpit.jpg
#4486762 - 08/20/19 09:00 AM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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Few interesting notes on Joint Strike Fighter game:

• it has a dynamic campaign for 4 different theatres - Afghanistan, Colombia, Korea, Kola Peninsula
• you plan all the missions to secure overall goals
• you have limited supplies of aircrafts and pilots
• There are no other friendly flights taking part in the battle besides yours and friendly AWACS
• your wingman can engage only A/A targets - that means all the ground work will rely on YOU
• despite all the shortcomings it is still fun and rewarding to win the campaigns, after that you can still fly in them and take out the rest of the non-essential targets
• the terrains are modelled and rendered way beyond the boundaries of the "campaign map"
• after you eject (in campaign) you may explore the world on foot (and walk back to your homebase if you have several hours of spare free time). And you thought DCS was the first flight sim to implement that? You even have a gun to protect yourself!
• there are cheats to enable you to fly any plane or helicopter in the game. The chopper flight model is surprisingly well made for an undocumented feature.

#4486768 - 08/20/19 09:52 AM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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that all sounds great to me! I will prob check eBay for a copy

#4487094 - 08/22/19 04:32 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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Not exactly current, but Jane's Advanced Tactical Fighters had one, or simply known as JSF then I think. If I recall correctly this is what was on the box art. That was 1996. It was my main ride in that one.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4487104 - 08/22/19 05:42 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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There was an F-22 on the box cover of Jane's ATF.

But it did featured early concept of JSF.



And here's one in action:


#4487106 - 08/22/19 05:44 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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I did not recall correctly. (no surprise there) smile


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#4487109 - 08/22/19 06:03 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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Yeah, it was long time ago - 23 years! old_simmer

#4487164 - 08/23/19 03:10 AM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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very interesting - i actually found a cheap Eurobox copy of JSF at medimops.de too so i ordered it now

#4487969 - 08/30/19 03:47 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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Originally Posted by Agathosdaimon
all the cost blowouts and debate over whether the f-35 is actually better than the 11%combat readiness reported in the recent news, it occurred to me that i dont think i have seen a single f-35 sim anywhere in any form, am i right?


The sad part of all that is actually the sorry state of the media outlets nowadays! This being said, the vast majority of these news (negative media reports about F-35) are either old and outdated news repeated all over again (and wrongly touted as being flash/new news) or being completely out of context - For example, is that reported combat readiness for all the F-35 variants (-A, -B and -C) or for only one of them? Or let's look solely at the combat readiness of the F-35A in the USAF which achieved IOC 3 years ago (in 2016) -> Was the F-16 combat readiness 3 years after IOC (around 40 years ago!) any better than the current F-35A combat readiness?? And I could go on and on and on...

Anyway, not wanting to derail the subject (and BTW, I would also love to have a F-35 PC sim), the best modern options that I found around so far, are:
- P3D with Dino's F-35 and VRS TacPack. I don't own VRS TacPack - it's a bit expensive for my wallet right now - but this seems to be the "most realistic" or the closer to realistic experience with a F-35 in something that resembles a combat environment. Unfortunately and from what I've been reading, the combat environment of FSX/P3D plus VRS TacPack isn't that much detailed or "alive". For example, there are no campaigns and the enemy only seems to consist in a few popping enemy fighters (which seem to act more like a target drone than actual enemy fighters) and one or another popping SAM site (SA-2 if I'm not mistaken).
- IMO and this might sound strange but the most fun experience that I had regarding a F-35 in a PC combat environment has been with ArmA3 and an excellent F-35C mod which is relatively recent and which is compatible with the BIS carrier (and as such allows Carrier Ops) and will all the Jets DLC new features.


JSF is excellent indeed but it's old and models the X-35 instead of the F-35.

#4488034 - 08/31/19 08:34 AM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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thanks for info - on the actual f-35 i honestly dont know what its actual state is beyond the news. the negative news though is not all mainstream.

i was hearing all the bad rumoursyears ago and ultimately felt they were all overblown then and assumed by now any actual issues that come with designing something so advanced would be mostly sorted, but then that report on the combat effectiveness threw me - i dont recall which one it was. until it actually sees combat (not sure that is ever something i hope for though) there is just negative speculation for sure and if i recall, other pieces of military hardware in the past were met with skepticism.
the other reports i see from outlets that are military focussed like national interest, make mention of the f-35 being defeated in close combat by f-15s but this is not always so and the f-35 is as i understand it meant for long distance/ BVR attacks and similar such where stealth is key

#4488090 - 08/31/19 10:03 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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Originally Posted by Agathosdaimon

i was hearing all the bad rumoursyears ago and ultimately felt they were all overblown then and assumed by now any actual issues that come with designing something so advanced would be mostly sorted, but then that report on the combat effectiveness threw me - i dont recall which one it was. until it actually sees combat (not sure that is ever something i hope for though) there is just negative speculation for sure and


Like I previously said, many of the bad press/news is either repetition of old news about issues that inevitably happen with any new aircraft and technology when it is being developed but repeated all over again and this after that same issue or issues were already solved or in the case of the "combat readiness report" news that are out of proportion and ultimately out of context. If I'm not mistaken some of these news are related to a goal that the F-35 should have a combat readiness of 80% or above which it doesn't (currently and in peace time) but then again most of these new outlets fail to mention that no other USAF combat aircraft including the F-15 and F-16 has such a level of combat readiness (80% or above). Actually the only USAF aircraft that have such high level of readiness are cargo aircraft, namely the C-130 and C-17.

Anyway, when the F-35 reaches its combat readiness intended goal it will surpass those of the F-15 and F-16. This kinda reminds me of the "pilot weight issue" years ago... rolleyes

Originally Posted by Agathosdaimon

if i recall, other pieces of military hardware in the past were met with skepticism.


That's indeed true and a fact!
Other "ground breaking"/new technological fighter aircraft for example like the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, etc... were also met with such levels of criticism and guess what? That criticism was misplaced and with the F-35 it won't be any different!


Originally Posted by Agathosdaimon

the other reports i see from outlets that are military focussed like national interest, make mention of the f-35 being defeated in close combat by f-15s but this is not always so and the f-35 is as i understand it meant for long distance/ BVR attacks and similar such where stealth is key


Where did you read such thing?? I read exactly the opposite - that the F-15 doesn't stand a chance against the F-35. Actually in the first Red Flag exercise that the F-35 participated on it achieved a kill ration of 20:1 (this against F-15s and F-16s), this is huge considering that most of the F-35 pilots were more on the rookie side and they were far outnumbered and above all that the "enemy aircraft" were allowed to "respawn" just after being "shot down".
Moreover there were other reports in such and similar exercises of rookie F-35 pilots alerting very experienced pilots flying 4th gen fighter aircraft (reportedly F-15 and/or F-16) or "enemy aircraft" and thus saving these pilots from being "shot down". These very experienced pilots were amazed with this since this is basically something unheard of in the history of military aviation.

It also a wrong assessment and plain wrong to say that the F-35 can only rely on stealth and BVR to have any advantage. For example in terms of agility the F-35 combines both the F-16 agility (energy) with the F/A-18 agility (high AoA turns). So in terms of agility the F-35 will probably only lose to the F-22.

#4488499 - 09/05/19 02:16 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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oh maybe i was wrong and it wasnt an f15, though i really have teh strong memory that it was - i am sure it was national interest, they have articles with all kinds of assessments and opinions - actually something i read there today was about the f-35 and the f-22 complementing each other. I do get the impression now that the F-35 is looking to be quite formidable, and i mentioned stealth as that seemed to be a factor left out of earlier criticisms i encountered, and also it keeps getting brought up in the positive pieces.

Yes, until recently i was thinking it wasnt designed to be some kind of agile dogfighter because that is not its intended strength, though that article i just read, it was described as having very good close combat abilities, - perhaps not the absolute best, - the f-22 being more agile, but it sounds to be right up there - and this brings up something else actually now come to think of it - I have come across youtube videos of aircraft comparisons and the common sentiment that the f-35 cant do any of the supermaneuvering like russian sukhois, but i swear i did see a vid out there of an f-35 pulling of some impressive similar maneuvers

maybe this was it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jpjS_lkXF0 -

there seems to be alot of new videos and information coming out this year, it certainly looks like the F-35 really is quite something specia. is it now actually in service?

#4488562 - 09/05/19 10:09 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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Originally Posted by Agathosdaimon

Yes, until recently i was thinking it wasnt designed to be some kind of agile dogfighter because that is not its intended strength, though that article i just read, it was described as having very good close combat abilities,


Another evidence that the F-35 is an extremely agile aircraft are pilots testimonies when they fly the aircraft coming from other fighter aircraft.
For example there have been F/A-18 pilots - and the F/A-18 being an extremely agile aircraft in terms of turn/high AoA maneuvering but not that stellar at energy maneuvering - claiming that the F-35 is like a "F/A-18 with turbo" or a "F/A-18 with 4 (four) engines". Which again proves that the F-35 is not only an aircraft with extreme agility in terms of turn/high AoA maneuvering but also in terms of energy maneuvering.

Other excellent account is from a Norwegian fighter pilot Major Morten "Dolby" Hanche a former F-16 pilot (with more than 2200 hours in the F-16) and currently a F-35 pilot. You can read is account back in 2016 when the F-35 was flying with Block 2B/3I upgrade which still limited the -A variant (F-35A) to 7G maneuvering (currently the F-35 has Block 3F upgrade which allows the F-35A to attain 9G maneuvering), below:
https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/k...n-a-dogfight-what-have-i-learned-so-far/

(first half part is in Norwegian but the last half is the translation to English)
Very interesting reading, IMO.



Originally Posted by Agathosdaimon

- perhaps not the absolute best, - the f-22 being more agile, but it sounds to be right up there - and this brings up something else actually now come to think of it - I have come across youtube videos of aircraft comparisons and the common sentiment that the f-35 cant do any of the supermaneuvering like russian sukhois, but i swear i did see a vid out there of an f-35 pulling of some impressive similar maneuvers

maybe this was it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jpjS_lkXF0 -


Yes, you're totally correct that the F-35 does and have been see performing similar maneuvers as those performed by the F-22 and certain Sukhois which is a testimony and one more evidence of the excellent and extreme maneuvering capabilities of the F-35 since the F-22 and some of the best Sukhois have TVC (Thrust Vectoring Control) Engines while the F-35 doesn't have a TVC engine.
Moreover, I disagree with people who say that "the f-35 cant do any of the supermaneuvering like russian sukhois"! Not only it can do but IMO it can do it quite better. For example when I see one of those Sukhois doing some hard and high AoA horizontal turn (like the one performed around minute 2:42 by the F-35 in the video that you shared), the Sukhois usually lose some altitude and energy but the same doesn't seem to happen with the F-35 when performing the same or similar maneuvers.
And even more, the Sukhois performing those spectacular maneuvers on Air Shows are knows to be stripped from non-essencial equipment (usually combat equipment) such as sensors (like the IRST) while the F-35 (and other US/Western aircraft for that matter) performing at Air Shows are the same as those used operationally and/or in combat.


Originally Posted by Agathosdaimon

there seems to be alot of new videos and information coming out this year, it certainly looks like the F-35 really is quite something specia. is it now actually in service?


Yes, the F-35 is currently in service. Still not with all customers of course but so far at least with these:
- The F-35B first reached IOC (Initial Operational Capability) with the Marines (USMC) in 2015 although it was equipped with upgrade Block 2B.
- The F-35A first reached IOC with the USAF a year later in 2016 although with Block 3I.
- The F-35C reached IOC with the Navy (USN) this year (February-2019) already with the latest Block 3F upgrade.
Or course that the majority of USAF F-35A's and USMC F-35B's have also been upgraded to Block 3F since then.
- The F-35A is also already in service with the Israeli, Italian and Japanese Air Forces.

Moreover, the F-35A already saw combat with the Israeli Air Force over Syria and the F-35B already saw combat with the USMC over Afghanistan. And if I'm not mistaken USAF F-35A's also and already saw combat over Iraq and Syria as well.

#4488574 - 09/05/19 11:52 PM Re: where are the f-35 sims? [Re: Agathosdaimon]  
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by combat you dont mean ata, but strikes and patrols? i saw an article heading today saying the israelis may be using them secretly over iran atm too. Again not that i am wanting there to be any combat and certainly not attacks on civilian populations and civilian infrastructure.

that rotatable exhaust on the f-35 is impressive, that must help with it being able to make some impressive slow speed quick turns.

can you tell me, in hte clips of it taking off, why is there an airbrake looking cpart raised up, - aircraft dont take off with a brake on normally do they? the f-35 doesnt need to achieve as much speed to get airborne i take it.

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