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#4482494 - 07/12/19 09:09 AM Pfalz EIII......wow!  
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Simes Offline
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Having gotten my WOFF back up and running following the latest Windows 10 update debacle, I decided to try something different, but sticking with my belief in starting a career earlier rather than just jumping into Albatros's, Pups and Tripes at the end of 1916.

I found a unit tucked away in the corner of Alsace which is flying Pfalz Eindeckers in October 1915.

I've been assigned one and it's all over the Nieuport 10s I've encountered so far cool

If it's accurate in it's capabilities, I'm surprised it wasn't produced in greater numbers....Fokker wouldn't have gotten a look in notworthy

Last edited by Simes; 07/12/19 09:10 AM.
#4482523 - 07/12/19 03:09 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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lederhosen Offline
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one of my most loved aircraft. But, alas, it will eventualy be at classed.
Try FA45b for the western front (I think??)


And the same can be said of the Bristol scout and the Sop Tripe....so much potential and so much politics that got on the way

Last edited by lederhosen; 07/12/19 03:10 PM.

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#4482533 - 07/12/19 04:56 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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Roudou Offline
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The Pfalz A & E are german built Morane-Saulnier Type L. Maybe there is something to do with no more production or development.

Last edited by Roudou; 07/12/19 04:57 PM.
#4482543 - 07/12/19 06:14 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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Better in-game performance than Fokker E.III could be partly due to the small numbers built. Compared to Fokker E.III there's probably much less anecdotes and recorded experiences that could tell more about its flaws and limits in combat.

In any case it would be odd if Fokker E.III was so heavily favored historically if it didn't perform equally or better than Pfalz E.III. Both planes were copies of Morane-Saulnier planes (and Pfalz Flugzeugwerke apparently mostly produced M-S types before and during Fokker scourge); any licence agreements made with company in enemy nation would probably not be an issue during wartime; and Fokker, being a Dutchman, wasn't inherently favored by the Germans either from what I have read. Then again, bad military decisions followed by tunnel vision and slow reaction wouldn't be that uncharacteristic of the Great War.

#4482565 - 07/12/19 07:24 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: lederhosen]  
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Simes Offline
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Originally Posted by lederhosen
Try FA45b for the western front (I think??)


I had a good look at all of the units available in 1915....I ended up at FA(A)296b because it had Fokkers for the highest ranks and the Pfalz for the second ranks, so I ended up starting on 10th October 1915 as an Offiziersvertreter with the Pfalz.

I noticed most of the two seater units have Fokkers available by October 1915 but only for Hauptmann's and Rittmeister's....and I wouldn't be so presumptuous to start so high right away.

It is a great aircraft to fly though..... really good in a turn.

Last edited by Simes; 07/12/19 07:26 PM.

"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour." Cecil Lewis
#4482614 - 07/13/19 02:17 AM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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Shredward Offline
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As Roudou noted, both the Pfalz A.I and E.III are Pfalz built licensed copies of the Morane L Parasol. Performance is pretty much the same. They were not popular for several reasons, and arrived later than the Fokker, and hence did not see large production numbers.

Cheers,
shredward


We will remember them.
#4482699 - 07/13/19 07:21 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Shredward]  
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Originally Posted by Shredward
As Roudou noted, both the Pfalz A.I and E.III are Pfalz built licensed copies of the Morane L Parasol. Performance is pretty much the same. They were not popular for several reasons, and arrived later than the Fokker, and hence did not see large production numbers.

Cheers,
shredward

Could you elaborate on the reasons for their unpopularity? I find it hard to find much info on these planes.

#4482752 - 07/14/19 08:20 AM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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lederhosen Offline
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Money, I would think.
Pfalz vs Fokker and who had more sway over certain higher-ups.
Just imagine if Anthony Fokker was snubbed and worked for the Entante.


make mistakes and learn from them

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#4482775 - 07/14/19 01:51 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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Shredward Offline
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To quote Jack Herris in 'Pfalz Aircraft of WWI'
"When the war began production of approximately 60 Pfalz Parasols, exact copies of the Type L, was underway for the Bavarian air service. Initially, the Pfalz Parasols were used for reconnaissance and occasional nuisance bombing with improvised weapons..."
"All Pfalz E.III fighters may have been conversions of existing Pfalz A.II reconnaissance aircraft .Few Pfalz E.IIIs were converted; its speed matched the E.II but the climb was not as good as the E.I. Furthermore, since the E.III was a larger, heavier aircraft than the E.I or E.II, it was not as manoeuverable. A maximum of eight Pfalz E.IIIs were at the front in June 1916."

By that time, the first Halberstadt D.II and D.IIIs were arriving at the Front; the Fokker E.I and E.II had been into production in large numbers beginning in May '15, the Fokker E.III beginning in August '15.

As to the Pfalz E.I, E.II, E.IV, E.V, and E.VI, again from Jack Herris:
"The Pfalz E-type fighters were developed from the Morane-Saulnier Type H monoplane, for which Pfalz obtained a production license before the war. The Fokker monoplanes, which actually entered service months before the Pfalz fighters, had better performance, especially climb rate, and had much better manoeuverability and handling characteristics....Because the inferior Pfalz monoplane fighters followed the Fokker monoplanes into service, only small numbers of Pfalz monoplane fighters saw frontline service, and they were generally unpopular with their pilots. Death notices in German newspapers have black borders and the Pfalz monoplane fighters were painted with black outlines to the wings and fuselages, leading to some gallows humour in the " Fliegertruppe.
"Not only were the Fokker monoplanes superior in performance, the Pfalz aircraft were not as structurally sound, because in August 1916 they were ordered withdrawn from the Front and cannibalized for spare parts due to numerous fatal crashes. About 100 Pfalz E-types were destroyed as a result, and production was likewise stopped."

Of course, by that time, the Halberstadts had been in service for several months, and the Tros was about to arrive.

Cheers,
shredward


We will remember them.
#4482779 - 07/14/19 02:50 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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Simes Offline
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Thanks for the info shredward thumbsup

Yes I'd read that the Pfalz E series was inferior to the Fokker E's. The Pfalz EIII is fun to fly and easier to bank than the Fokkers. With practice (and boy have I been practicing this weekend copter ) I'm managing to turn inside the Nupe 10's.

It's not a steady gun platform at all and yes the climbing isn't great, but I feel more in control of a dogfight in this Pfalz EIII than I would do in a Fokker Eindecker.

I have to say, flying around Alsace is fun too, you have to be very careful not to get stuck in valleys and in-between mountains so that your rate of climb won't allow you out duh .....if the Nupes spiral down to escape I generally let them go and wait for them to struggle out at maximum climb rate and then dive down and attack again.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour." Cecil Lewis
#4482782 - 07/14/19 03:26 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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mvp7 Offline
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Thanks Shredward! So basically the Pfalz EIII arrived late when Fokkers were already in full production, were inferior to Fokkers, and better planes were about to arrive. That's around the time when Pfalz shifted manufacturing to Rolands too I guess.

#4482816 - 07/14/19 08:39 PM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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Shredward Offline
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Yes, the Pfalz E.III, and the other Pfalz Eindekkers weren't as good as the Fokkers, and were late to the game. Pfalz shifted to license building the Roland D.I, D.II, as the Pfalz D.I, D.II, and then developed their own Pfalz D.III
Cheers,
shredward


We will remember them.
#4482844 - 07/15/19 01:36 AM Re: Pfalz EIII......wow! [Re: Simes]  
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”The Pfalz monoplane was about as well suited for air combat as a cow was for playing the lute. Only heaven knows who hung these crates around the neck of the Heeresverwaltung.”

-Vzfw. Kurt Jentsch, pilot of Pfalz E II 445/15


Some people are born stupid. I've had to work hard my whole life to get this way. I'm proud of the job I've done

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