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#4489358 - 09/13/19 03:18 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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There's no love triangle here. As I've already mentioned, the woman in the film is playing the wife of Commander Dick Best, C.O. of the SBD's aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise. I don't see anything wrong with showing the pilot's private lives. That's hardly what's wrong with this.
It's things like that attack by the Japanese "Nell" bombers. I think I saw one crashing into a carrier. When the Hell did that happen? And what's with the,
"I think it's Midway, sir!"
"Well, Washington doesn't agree!"
"Washington is wrong!"
Never happened! Everyone pretty much agreed that there was a good possibility that the Japanese were going after the little island. They just weren't sure. In all of their messages about the attack, the Japanese only reffered to their target as "Island X." Hence that clever trick the U.S. Navy used, sending the fake message about Midway's water purification system not working.
I don't know. I was just hoping for a more serious take on the subject, guess.
By the way, people keep reffering to the film as a remake. No it isn't. It's just another film about the Battle of Midway. Pearl Harbor wasn't a remake of Tora Tora Tora.


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#4489362 - 09/13/19 03:28 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch

I don't know. I was just hoping for a more serious take on the subject, guess.




And that's the catch. If you are going to do a wide theatrical release for a relatively big budget film then you have to appeal to the lowest common denominator if you want to make a profit.


There is certainly an audience out there for serious war films but you won't find it at the movieplexes. You would need to release your film on a streaming service or on a cable network like HBO which caters to niche audiences.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4489465 - 09/14/19 01:59 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Saving Private Ryan. No love triangle and constantly tops lists of best war films and crushed it at the movies.


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#4489472 - 09/14/19 02:59 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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I don't want to defend some of their artistic choices - obviously everything is always too close to each other, too low, explosions too big, actors too bombastic, etc...
The whole thing do look like a trainwreck to people like us, but still, they did their homework on a number of things and, moreover, I'd better have one big movie (and a smaller one actually at the same time) about the topic than none at all. As you can imagine, making a realistic game about the topic myself, my skin sometimes shivers at the sight of some of these shots - but it's not all bad, I am going to say why in just a minute

First, though, I would like to address a couple injustices Ive read over here, if I might - sorry in advance Pooch wink

Originally Posted by Pooch
Recon, to tell you the truth, that other one titled "Dauntless" doesn't seem to be telling the true story at all.

Well, the Dauntless' starring crew doesn't seem to be based on a SBD actually, more like one of the few surviving TBDs, that is VT6's 6-T-8 crewed by pilot MACH Albert Waldo Winchell and gunner RM 3/c Douglas Marvin Cossitt. They had it all, from the die hard ditching, the hurting, the ultimate rescue on the 17th day at sea, and along the way they even had a Japanese submarine close on them, inspect them and leave them to their fate. You can't invent that.
A lot of SBDs ditched on the way home (Enterprise's airgroup was already very short on juice even before finding the Japanese force) so it could be based on another tale. If a SBD was substituted to a TBD though, I could understand in regard of the action I suppose. Still.

Originally Posted by Pooch
That whole thing with the SBD's getting creamed and the Admiral turning on the lights so they could make it back is pure bullshite. Didn't happen. The U.S. air groups at Midway did not return at night time.

Well, it did happen, and they did come back at night time! On the second day Spruance planes that went out there looking for Hiryu didn't find her (she had slipped beneath the waves by then) and had to return at nightfall. Spruance took the decision to switch on the lights. It might have played a small role in Mitscher's own decision to do the same at the battle of the Philippine Sea, as Mitscher at that time was the CO of Hornet.

Originally Posted by Pooch
It's things like that attack by the Japanese "Nell" bombers. I think I saw one crashing into a carrier. When the Hell did that happen?

During the raid against the Marshall islands, a Nell tried a desperate dash for Enterprise's deck and crashed into the water after scratching the flight deck, sawing in half a SBD with its wing. AMM 2/c Gaido had been manning his defensive gun during all the action, and stayed there even when the sawing happened. Gaido died at Midway, as his dauntless ran out of gas and had to ditch. His pilot and him were captured by a Japanese destroyer (Makigumo), beaten, tortured and eventually executed at sea, which obviously makes him an interesting topic for some dramatic story-telling.

About the Marshall raid and the G3M's attempt at early kamikazing (with a pic of the SBD cut in half)
http://www.cv6.org/1942/marshalls/marshalls_2.htm
https://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive...ate-first-class-amm1c-bruno-peter-gaido/

Originally Posted by Pooch
And what's with the,
"I think it's Midway, sir!"
"Well, Washington doesn't agree!"
"Washington is wrong!"
Never happened! Everyone pretty much agreed that there was a good possibility that the Japanese were going after the little island. They just weren't sure. In all of their messages about the attack, the Japanese only reffered to their target as "Island X." Hence that clever trick the U.S. Navy used, sending the fake message about Midway's water purification system not working.

Well Washington didn't agree with the analysis, that one part is true. That is why Pearl Harbor had to make sure that Washington would follow them in their assessment. People usually think think that the water purification ruse was made so that the US side as a whole could ascertain that Midway was the target, but truth is they knew it before. It was more of an internal affair - HYPO (Hawaii, that had a special connection to Nimitz as CINCPAC) was pretty sure about its own interpretation pointing to this info, and OP-20-G (Washington, which directly reported to King as COMINCH) disagreed regarding the reliability of the assessment that Midway was the next target, which naturally had an impact on Nimitz' own on-going debate with King for force allocation. The Pearl Harbor crowd pretty much "tricked" the Japanese into sending the message without telling Washington, so that Washington would come to that conclusion alone by decrypting the said message. Washington didn't know it got somewhat, hum, "played" until after the battle. Again, the script doesn't need to go look for the drama very far, it's just there right before their eyes.

Altogether, I can't hate the idea of this movie. Emmerich is having fun, right, at the expense of the authenticity, true that. But historically speaking, most of the depicted episodes actually happened, and the overall amount of research deployed for details, accessories and the rest is still pretty good - if not staggering considering past attempts in the WW2 genre (U-571, anyone?). But some have pointed out that 1976's Midway ain't really a masterpiece either - still, a lot of those who saw it when they were kids still hold this movie dear to their hearts, and remember that time fondly. Some movies age better with the progressive embitterment of our hearts and the development of our critical sense (Tora Tora Tora, A Bridge Too Far...), some others very much less so (Midway, Battle of the Bulge...) but in the latter case, if you were at the movies with your dad in 1976, or by the family Christmas tree a few years later during a TV screening, and remember that you first came to know about Dauntlesses and carriers when watching it, I'd rather thank them for this opportunity than shoot the messenger. I expect Midway to exactly play this role for the younger generation - at a certain point, the interest in these battles is running thin enough like that year after year not to welcome any initiative of the kind that will broaden the audience, even just a tad bit.

And then they can go on buying our game, but that's another story entirely wink

Last edited by The_Admiral; 09/14/19 06:27 AM.
#4489481 - 09/14/19 04:48 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Nail on the head. Midway,Tora, Bulge etc. Loved them as a kid and spurred major interest that lasts until this day. They all put me to sleep these days though.


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#4489508 - 09/14/19 03:51 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Well, hopefully, with everything else I'm wrong about, I'll also be wrong about how well this film is done. I want to come away saying, "#%&*$#! That wasn't wasn't half bad at all!" I'm really hungry for a movie of this type.


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#4489509 - 09/14/19 03:54 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Well. Hum.
Honestly, no, I will bet that you're gonna be right about that one, unfortunately ^^

#4489528 - 09/14/19 11:18 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Don’t forget that this was directed by Roland Emmeriich who is essentially the German Michael Bay.

‘NUFF SAID.


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#4489537 - 09/15/19 02:28 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Don’t forget that this was directed by Roland Emmeriich who is essentially the German Michael Bay.

‘NUFF SAID.



Michael Bay has made some stinkers in his time but he still has "The Rock", "Bad Boys", "13 Hours", "Armageddon" and I will still defend the first "Transformers"... Emmerich has "Independence Day", everything else has been garbage IMHO

#4489550 - 09/15/19 03:29 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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I think "The Rock" was OK, and I agree that the first Transformers wasn't bad (I don't know anything about the original Transformers story line, so that might be why), but just about everything else he's made that I've seen has not been something I've liked.

For Emmerich, the only move he's made that I thought was any good was the original Stargate movie.


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#4489646 - 09/16/19 10:44 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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I just looked it up online and the production budget for the film was 100 million.


There is NO WAY this movie will make a profit at the box office.


As for Michael Bay, he is decent at making action movies. He just needs to stay away from any kind of historically-based subject matter.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 09/16/19 10:45 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4489647 - 09/16/19 10:46 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: Arthonon]  
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Originally Posted by Arthonon



For Emmerich, the only move he's made that I thought was any good was the original Stargate movie.


Same here. "Stargate" is the only Emmerich film I actually have on bluray.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4496050 - 11/05/19 02:55 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Welp.... I guess I'm gonna have to take back some of my criticism of Emmerich... I just got back from a screening of Midway... and.. It's actually a pretty good movie! The CGI is still pretty bad and the Pearl Harbor scenes are ...bad, really bad but once they actually start delving into the battle of Midway, Emmerich does a really good job depicting the actual battle from both sides and fleshes it out a lot better than the older film. It does a good job depicting how big of a battle it was. If you can get past the CGI and horrid depiction of the Pearl Harbor attack, I'd definitely recommend checking it out!

One gripe I did have beside the above mentioned, there is not a single US fighter plane depicted in the entire movie which was just odd, they even depict a few other planes I won't spoil since they aren't in the trailer but not a single F4F Wildcat or F2A Buffalo is depicted in the movie ...

#4496074 - 11/05/19 11:18 AM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Originally Posted by reconmercs
Welp.... I guess I'm gonna have to take back some of my criticism of Emmerich... I just got back from a screening of Midway... and.. It's actually a pretty good movie! The CGI is still pretty bad and the Pearl Harbor scenes are ...bad, really bad but once they actually start delving into the battle of Midway, Emmerich does a really good job depicting the actual battle from both sides and fleshes it out a lot better than the older film. It does a good job depicting how big of a battle it was. If you can get past the CGI and horrid depiction of the Pearl Harbor attack, I'd definitely recommend checking it out!

One gripe I did have beside the above mentioned, there is not a single US fighter plane depicted in the entire movie which was just odd, they even depict a few other planes I won't spoil since they aren't in the trailer but not a single F4F Wildcat or F2A Buffalo is depicted in the movie ...



You may find this interesting:

https://variety.com/2019/film/features/roland-emmerich-midway-1203387268/


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4496100 - 11/05/19 05:49 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by reconmercs
Welp.... I guess I'm gonna have to take back some of my criticism of Emmerich... I just got back from a screening of Midway... and.. It's actually a pretty good movie! The CGI is still pretty bad and the Pearl Harbor scenes are ...bad, really bad but once they actually start delving into the battle of Midway, Emmerich does a really good job depicting the actual battle from both sides and fleshes it out a lot better than the older film. It does a good job depicting how big of a battle it was. If you can get past the CGI and horrid depiction of the Pearl Harbor attack, I'd definitely recommend checking it out!

One gripe I did have beside the above mentioned, there is not a single US fighter plane depicted in the entire movie which was just odd, they even depict a few other planes I won't spoil since they aren't in the trailer but not a single F4F Wildcat or F2A Buffalo is depicted in the movie ...



You may find this interesting:

https://variety.com/2019/film/features/roland-emmerich-midway-1203387268/



that definitely explains the quality for the visual effects, sucks that its getting harder and harder to do these types of films in Hollywierd...

#4496101 - 11/05/19 06:11 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Originally Posted by reconmercs



that definitely explains the quality for the visual effects, sucks that its getting harder and harder to do these types of films in Hollywierd...



That's why more and more film-makers are going to streaming services. You get much more bang for your buck by releasing a movie on a streaming service than you do by releasing it theatrically unless of course it's a huge established money making franchise like Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Marvel, etc.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4496110 - 11/05/19 07:00 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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A Bridge to Far , The longest Day, B and B , Run Slient Run deep. Band of Bros, all nailed it for me the others about WWII just &&&*&*&

#4496119 - 11/05/19 08:08 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Many of the no-budget indie WW2 films on YouTube are better than anything Hollywood has made in a long time.

#4496121 - 11/05/19 08:12 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: reconmercs]  
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Mark Felton has a great channel on YouTube and the old Wings / Great Planes programs can be found there as well. Much better than any military documentaries created in the last 10-20 years.


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#4496122 - 11/05/19 08:15 PM Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) [Re: Crane Hunter]  
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Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Many of the no-budget indie WW2 films on YouTube are better than anything Hollywood has made in a long time.



You explained the reason right there in your post. They are no-budget/tiny budget so there's very little risk involved if not very many people watch the film.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 11/05/19 08:16 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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