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#4478167 - 06/14/19 10:29 PM TrackIR Users - Check This Out....  
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HarryH Offline
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Chatting with AnKor, still trying to figure out how this CFS3 engine does things and looking for clues about how to improve performance, he put me onto something: the way TrackIR works with WOFF is apparently a little strange. If I understand him correctly, it does not stay in lockstep with the game's framerate. Coincidentally I've recently been trying to improve my TrackIR settings to resolve a specific issue, which is when I try to look too far up and over either shoulder, the 3D world flips to a straight ahead view.

Well today I put the two things together in my mind. WOFF does not have any "roll" capability in the 3D view, but TrackIR is not necessarily aware of that. What if it's trying to tell the game view to roll but getting no response? Wasted processing cycles, right? So I went into my all time favorite TIR profile and examined the settings. Sure enough, there was a "roll" curve programmed in there. I've never even thought to touch it before now. So, I tried zeroing out all the roll settings by dragging the points to the bottom to create a zero flat line. The end result in WOFF is pretty fantastic. I've always had a feeling that TrackIR was behaving slightly weirdly in WOFF. This fixes it. HUGE improvement in the feel and flow of head movements. Now, I'm hoping there isn't something else in my settings that this depends on, but with a bit of luck, it will similarly improve any TrackIR user's experience.

I've uploaded the profile here .... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5kXGwty9rYiT2xEdVNrNFU0ZzA. PM me if you don't know or can't find what location to put it in. On my machine it's here... C:\Users\Harry_H\AppData\Roaming\NaturalPoint\TrackIR 5\Profiles

Please, if you use TrackIR, do give this a try and tell me if it improves things for you. Be warned, I've purposely limited the range that you can turn to look behind you, for the sake of realism, but you could edit that to suit your own taste fairly easily (PM me if you need pointers for that).

Cheers all!

H


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478178 - 06/14/19 11:51 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Ive just taken a flight using your profile and..i like it Harry. Like you said you,ve limited the range behind..id like a little more so il PM if thats ok cheers


"Vis unita fortior"

"United Strength is Stronger"
#4478183 - 06/15/19 12:44 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Very cool. I'm a bit of a Luddite, but I'll see if I can give this a go.

Thanks, Harry!

#4478190 - 06/15/19 01:51 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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At the request of Adger, here's an unlimited version (can turn to see tailplane)...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rUsJ8WAO6Z70XZG6bJFTmm0wgDAgjYgu


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478194 - 06/15/19 02:07 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Raine]  
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Originally Posted by Raine
Very cool. I'm a bit of a Luddite, but I'll see if I can give this a go.

Thanks, Harry!


You're welcome! Once you've placed the profile in your NaturalPoint directory, you should be able to select it as the active preset in your TrackIR client, prior to launching WOFF. I'm sure you'll figure it out but if you get stuck, PM me.

I've flown three missions this afternoon including one in WOTR - incredible difference in smoothness of the game. Still occasional stutters but that's another issue smile

Last edited by HarryH; 06/15/19 02:09 AM.

I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478195 - 06/15/19 02:52 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH
. Coincidentally I've recently been trying to improve my TrackIR settings to resolve a specific issue, which is when I try to look too far up and over either shoulder, the 3D world flips to a straight ahead view.
H


Hi Harry,

I will check out the profile, but the above is what happens when the TrackIR camera looses one of the three IR reflectors.
You can recreate this at any time by just covering up one of the sensors with your hand.

Adjusting the sensors and the camera position can help this, but if your profile does not turn the view quick enough before you head moves the sensors or of range, you will be back at square one.

It is really a combination of both.

I say this because I have been using the same profile for years and out of the blue starting having this issue.
Took me a while to figure out somewhere along the line I had inadvertently bent the IR sensors out of position.

Regards.



Last edited by Stache; 06/15/19 02:57 AM.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4478198 - 06/15/19 03:56 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Stache]  
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Originally Posted by Stache
Originally Posted by HarryH
. Coincidentally I've recently been trying to improve my TrackIR settings to resolve a specific issue, which is when I try to look too far up and over either shoulder, the 3D world flips to a straight ahead view.
H


Hi Harry,

I will check out the profile, but the above is what happens when the TrackIR camera looses one of the three IR reflectors.
You can recreate this at any time by just covering up one of the sensors with your hand.

Adjusting the sensors and the camera position can help this, but if your profile does not turn the view quick enough before you head moves the sensors or of range, you will be back at square one.

It is really a combination of both.

I say this because I have been using the same profile for years and out of the blue starting having this issue.
Took me a while to figure out somewhere along the line I had inadvertently bent the IR sensors out of position.

Regards.




Thanks Stache, but I've had this problem forever. It's never been serious enough for me to bother addressing, but I'm just now working on the last few aspects of WOFF to make it as near-perfect as I can. In the process of doing that I just happened to have discovered the "roll" thing and that has made a huge difference for me. Try it for yourself and let me know!


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478205 - 06/15/19 05:44 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Thy Harry, I will sure test your profile, hopefully later today.

#4478236 - 06/15/19 02:20 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Harry, instead of fiddling with the roll curve, wouldn’t it be better just to uncheck the checkbox beside “roll”? In fact, by turning it off you probably could save even more processing power, because TrackIR doesn’t even have to check that “flat curve”. Man, I hate flat curves.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4478237 - 06/15/19 02:37 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Haha, I hate doing things the simple way. Completely missed the checkbox.

Have you tried this yourself? Any difference for you?


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478239 - 06/15/19 02:50 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Harry, instead of fiddling with the roll curve, wouldn’t it be better just to uncheck the checkbox beside “roll”? In fact, by turning it off you probably could save even more processing power, because TrackIR doesn’t even have to check that “flat curve”. Man, I hate flat curves.


Actually I just went a checked this and I did already have the checkbox for roll disabled... bu changing the settings still made a huge difference... so I dunno what's going on there. confused


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478241 - 06/15/19 03:07 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Harry, I couldn’t tell the difference with the checkbox on or off, but I haven’t tried zeroing the curves. What made big difference for me was the “Smooth” slider. I was testing it at values of 40 and forgot to change it back. I couldn’t figure out why WOFF was so choppy even early in the war. I recently had a look at those settings again and realized I had it so high (you would think the higher the number the smoother it should be). After reducing it to 10 or a much lower value, WOFF returned to its old smooth running. Another big frame rate increase for me was removing the airfield mods. I hate to do it because all locations are wrong on Lou’s map now. But with my aging system I was able to go from 40s to 100s. That is a huge difference. I wish we still could have the airfield locations “correct” but without all the accoutrements like the figures, workstations and the dog. I bet you that dog it’s a whole bowl of framerate for breakfast. As I understand, the airfield mod is all or nothing.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4478249 - 06/15/19 04:08 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Harry, I couldn’t tell the difference with the checkbox on or off, but I haven’t tried zeroing the curves. What made big difference for me was the “Smooth” slider. I was testing it at values of 40 and forgot to change it back. I couldn’t figure out why WOFF was so choppy even early in the war. I recently had a look at those settings again and realized I had it so high (you would think the higher the number the smoother it should be). After reducing it to 10 or a much lower value, WOFF returned to its old smooth running. Another big frame rate increase for me was removing the airfield mods. I hate to do it because all locations are wrong on Lou’s map now. But with my aging system I was able to go from 40s to 100s. That is a huge difference. I wish we still could have the airfield locations “correct” but without all the accoutrements like the figures, workstations and the dog. I bet you that dog it’s a whole bowl of framerate for breakfast. As I understand, the airfield mod is all or nothing.


OK you definitely need to zero out the roll settings. The checkbox apparently does nothing :/ . Please do try it!!! Yes, smooth and speed settings need to be fine tuned to preference also. An you will find the slower the speed, the more limited your head turn range will become, so then you may need to readjust your yaw settings. Tinkering with WOFF is like working on a vintage sports car engine smile

I love the airfield mod and I have it enabled. I'm sooo happy with my settings right now. Just need to fix the clouds (yeah, fat chance).


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478283 - 06/15/19 09:02 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Here's the TrackIR settings for Roll...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by HarryH; 06/15/19 09:05 PM.

I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478284 - 06/15/19 09:05 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Not sure if it will make a difference or not, but I noticed your values for Axis 2 (Roll) are not exactly 0 other than in the center. This probably happened when you were editing the profile through the TrackIR UI. The xml file can be text edited, and you can make them actually be completely 0.

p.s. It turns out that you can completely delete the section for Axis 2 as well and it still works with TrackIR just fine.


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#4478294 - 06/15/19 10:17 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: MajorMagee]  
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Originally Posted by MajorMagee
Not sure if it will make a difference or not, but I noticed your values for Axis 2 (Roll) are not exactly 0 other than in the center. This probably happened when you were editing the profile through the TrackIR UI. The xml file can be text edited, and you can make them actually be completely 0.

p.s. It turns out that you can completely delete the section for Axis 2 as well and it still works with TrackIR just fine.


Excellent idea, thanks. Are you seeing good results overall by removing roll?


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478295 - 06/15/19 10:31 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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I wasn't really having a problem the way it was before, but this doesn't hurt anything in my case.


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On The Line,
On Time

US Army Ordnance Corps.
#4478296 - 06/15/19 10:49 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: MajorMagee]  
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Originally Posted by MajorMagee
I wasn't really having a problem the way it was before, but this doesn't hurt anything in my case.


OK, well I don't see the profile available to load if I edit it and remove Axis 2. I've edited each point on the curve inside trackIR and they are now all at 0.1. Seems to be the minimum.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478303 - 06/16/19 01:14 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Hi Harry, the point I was trying to make is that the issue mentioned is not dependent upon only the profile.

As for seeing behind, this also dependent upon what the current zoom view is.
With the view zoomed out, you can see behind to the opposite side farther.
i.e. when looking to the left you will be able to see farther to the right of the tail plane when the view is zoomed out.

With your first profile, I also found it was quite easy to see to the tail plane and beyond by just turning by head while at the standard zoom.
With my profile I actually have to get some shoulder movement involved to see that last little bit.
I did find your profile was more limiting when looking up.

Of course with triple screens - my setup is not ordinary.

My profile has roll checkbox enabled.

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by HarryH
Originally Posted by Stache
Originally Posted by HarryH
. Coincidentally I've recently been trying to improve my TrackIR settings to resolve a specific issue, which is when I try to look too far up and over either shoulder, the 3D world flips to a straight ahead view.
H


Hi Harry,

I will check out the profile, but the above is what happens when the TrackIR camera looses one of the three IR reflectors.
You can recreate this at any time by just covering up one of the sensors with your hand.

Adjusting the sensors and the camera position can help this, but if your profile does not turn the view quick enough before you head moves the sensors or of range, you will be back at square one.

It is really a combination of both.

I say this because I have been using the same profile for years and out of the blue starting having this issue.
Took me a while to figure out somewhere along the line I had inadvertently bent the IR sensors out of position.

Regards.




Thanks Stache, but I've had this problem forever. It's never been serious enough for me to bother addressing, but I'm just now working on the last few aspects of WOFF to make it as near-perfect as I can. In the process of doing that I just happened to have discovered the "roll" thing and that has made a huge difference for me. Try it for yourself and let me know!



Attached Files trackir_roll.jpg
Last edited by Stache; 06/16/19 01:17 AM.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4478308 - 06/16/19 02:18 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Thanks, Stache. You're right, of course, things change with different zoom levels. I'm realizing that everyones' machines are different, and everyones' preferred "experiences" are not necessarily aligned with mine. So, although my only interest is to help people improve their systems, my efforts at providing pointers and sharing my own discoveries may or may not result in satisfaction.

WOFF's now absolutely awesome for me. No way does it feel like a game engine that's 15+ years old any longer. The frustrating thing is, I can't capture video at a high enough resolution with a matched frame rate, to be able to show everyone what I'm enjoying so much. That's too bad. I'm down to one stutter every 25 minutes or so, regardless of the action level. Clouds are behaving better than ever (less popping less jaggies) head tracking liquid smooth except for the very occasional and only very slightly detectable hesitations and I think I've finally got to a place now where I can just fly and have massive fun.

Another awesome thing: if you haven't already, check out what JJJ has just implemented in the ME. Now we have a way to get great performance even in the later stages of 1918, without sacrificing detail settings or immersion.

Happy Father's Day all. Make sure to get some stick time smile pilot

Last edited by HarryH; 06/16/19 02:30 AM.

I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478403 - 06/16/19 07:14 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH
I'm down to one stutter every 25 minutes or so, regardless of the action level.


HH, I am glad you have things set to where you're willing to live with it. That said, and with all due respect: This makes it sound as if the 25-minute figure is some sort of 'average time between stutters' or something like that. In reality - if I may - what it means is more like:

"I can fly 25 minutes in some cases, apparently without encountering the conditions that will cause significant stutters. If, during any flight, I encounter the specific conditions that cause the stutters, it is possible that I would experience significant stutters, and possibly in fairly rapid succession.

It is necessary to distinguish because, in fact, no one knows or understands the exact cause of these stutters, cannot control the occurrence, and thus cannot say with certainty they can be predictably avoided for any particular duration or interval of time.

Quite simply put, it depends entirely on the circumstances within the sim, rather than any settings, machine capability, or configuration."


Isn't this more accurate by far?

The thing is, what you seem to be enjoying now is the same type of experience which, for years, has caused some to insist they have no stutters. At the same time, however - and for the same number of years - several have continued to notice stutters, as has been brought up and discussed off and on throughout all that time. No one's cured it; in fact, it seems most likely that nothing's changed concerning the stutters - other than people either encountering the condition(s) - or not - that actually cause the stutter. My point is that anyone - regardless of settings, machine, TrackIR, etc. - can and will experience stutters, and as much/often/bad as ever, because at the end of the day, while some improvements in 'smoothness' may have been obtained by various methods, the stutter issue itself is unchanged.

Where you can run a scenario in which there might not be a stutter for 25 minutes, I can demonstrate a scenario where stutters occur every 25 seconds. Notably, I'm sure there are people who will say they can run indefinitely without stutter - to which I say, simply make a recording of a scenario actually proven to reproduce stutter that doesn't show any, then we can talk about what's different on your machine. So far, no one's done that.

You understand, I'm sure, why it's best to be clear.

#4478405 - 06/16/19 08:29 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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I know you're hung up on this issue KKS and I know you think your test is valid. I don't think it is and I've respectfully explained why. I can't even get the AI to do what you say they need to do to carry out the test. Similarly, people couldn't get MY stutter test to behave the same as it does for me either, so neither of our tests are valid. I really don't mind if you want to keep agonizing over this, that's entirely up to you, but I'm moving on. I'm enjoying the game, warts and all, and that's all I was saying above. All that said, have you looked at your TrackIR settings to see if there's a roll curve plotted? If, not then you might want to give it a try. Or not. Up to you.

Cheers


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478407 - 06/16/19 08:49 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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I don't know why your machine doesn't show the same behavior in the test, but mine does it every time without fail, and of the others who ran it, no one had the issue you do. Maybe something's wrong at your end, I don't know.

What I do know is you can't say you don't have stutter as long as the scenario you run doesn't include the very part(s) that are there to demonstrate the stutter. It's unfortunate that your setup won't run the test within the parameters necessary - for whatever reason - but that's not a problem with the test.

That's like having a car with a poorly running engine and saying 'It runs fine as long as I don't go up any hills, pass anyone, or run the air conditioner." Maybe that constitutes acceptable behavior in a car for some, but only if they're willing to put up with a sub-standard level of performance.


Last edited by kksnowbear; 06/16/19 08:49 PM.
#4478422 - 06/16/19 10:51 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Hey, I completely respect your knowledge of PCs, but IMO your test only reliably demonstrates that there's an initial impact on game performance whenever starting a scenario, QC or mission, as the engine fills the system and graphics memory pipelines. Which is why many people spin the view a few times before starting, to pre-cache as much scenery as their system and the game will allow. My attempt at a repeatable test factored this in b allowing people to head spin before starting, and even with that, it successfully demonstrated an incidence of a stutter.... but that stutter happened at different times for people, which suggests to me at least, that stutters are likely somewhat machine-related, although not necessarily curable.

So, I'm not arguing with you, but I am saying it's possible to make this game run really well, albeit with occasional stutters. You are also right that stutters don't just occur every 25 minutes. They are certainly more likely to happen more frequently during intense action. Sorry if my comment was misleading in that respect.

All that aside, you didn't comment on my suggestion to check your roll settings? Here's a video that uses your test scenario (sorry, I broke the rules and did the head spin thing, but this is more to show you the improvements that are possible rather than trying to prove I've cured the stutters!). Indeed, there a stutter near the beginning and two near the end, but nothing that would kill me. And I'm not trying to compete with you or show off, although I do think this is pretty impressive and I am unashamedly happy with my tweaks to date smile. I am actually trying to help you and others to get better results, stutters notwithstanding. It's entirely up to you if nothing short of fixing stutters is worth your effort. Anyhow, apologies for my poor mastery of the Dr1. Hope you enjoy the video regardless smile




I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478440 - 06/17/19 02:18 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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HH

I'm afraid you're overlooking a few key points (as I reported to you in our private conversations):

- I did perform my test scenario with the "view pan" method, for several rounds at both low, mid, and high level views with the sim paused immediately at start, before continuing. This made no difference in the stutters.

- Further to the above, I also noted there are stutters that continue throughout the scenario, so they are not explained (nor likely to be changed) by the 'view pan' method. The stutter is absolutely not limited to the beginning of the scenario. It is well known that, as new objects are encountered, the stutters occur throughout the mission/flight. Thus, even if pausing and panning were to get rid of stutters initially, your suggestion seems to imply that one would need to stop periodically and pan view around, while moving in the sim, so that newly-encountered scenery could be loaded into the 'system and memory pipelines' (as you put it). This is impractical, a complete immersion killer, and shouldn't be necessary. And, as I mentioned, you'd have no way of knowing - save maybe just using time as a guide - when to stop and pan. Since you're always moving, you're always loading new objects, and that can cause stutter at any time. Finally, I mentioned that the stutter itself provides unrealistic advantage to the player, simply because you can often associate the stutter of new objects loading with the appearance of new aircraft. This is certainly not realistic.

- You will recall that I told you I had also run my test without even using TrackIR...from a clean boot, not even starting TrackIR, and using the hat switch. Although it took some getting used to, it didn't take long to realize that not using TrackIR made no difference in the observable stutters in my test. It seems logical that TrackIR has no bearing on the actual stutter issue, even if fiddling with it has allowed you more enjoyment.

To be clear: I'm not saying, nor have I ever, that there aren't things one can do that will improve the inherent issues with graphics performance the sim has. And, I think it's also true to say that not doing any of those things (or setting them wrong) will definitely make stuttering worse. What I'm saying, though, is none of those things resolve the stuttering. No TrackIR tweaks, no Nvidia Inspector settings, no workshop settings or air activity limiting (my test has one other plane...). Some of these settings, per Nvidia and other sources, were intended for much older GPUs and have no effect on performance these days. Often, you see here in the forum where one guy claims he fixed the stutters by turning off setting X, only to be directly contradicted by another guy saying setting X must be on (or even better, that setting X doesn't even apply to this sim...)

Originally Posted by HarryH
Indeed, there a stutter near the beginning and two near the end, but nothing that would kill me.


Right - but, again, this isn't about whether anyone is/is not willing to live with the stutters.


Last edited by kksnowbear; 06/17/19 02:26 AM.
#4478443 - 06/17/19 03:02 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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.... yup, I don't have an issue with anything you say here, except to say I don't believe I'm overlooking anything. Your test is flawed, and so is mine. I now realize that, no matter what conditions you set up, be them QC or scenario, the AI will randomly change things, so even if you engage autopilot the test will not be repeatable.

I am working on a new test that I hope will eliminate the in-built AI issues. Stay tuned. Meantime, I can't help but notice that you haven't commented on my video... ?

Cheers KKS.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478475 - 06/17/19 11:43 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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kksnowbear Online content
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kksnowbear  Online Content
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So I went to buy a car once, and when I drove it, there was a definite noise coming from the engine. It sounded to me like a grinding, but whatever it was, it wasn't normal.

I told the guy who was selling the car about the noise, and I left. A few days go by, the guy contacts me to tell me I should come drive the car again. So I went over. He had painted the car a flashy color, polished the wheels and detailed the interior. But when I drove it, same engine noise. I politely explained that, while all the improvements he made were nice, the car still had a basic problem he wasn't addressing.

Another couple days later, he has me come over again. New tires, new radio, new wiper blades...same noise. Now he says "It's probably the way you're driving the car."

The problem is the engine noise. It has been, and it will continue to be. All that other stuff is nice, but it isn't what's at issue. I'm not buying a car that demonstrates an engine problem just because someone can improve everything else about the car. Statements like "It's entirely up to you if nothing short of fixing stutters is worth your effort." seem to say that I'm being unreasonable or that somehow, I'm the problem here. As I said, I'm glad you're happy with what you're getting, but you can't expect anyone else to accept an obvious, demonstrable problem.

There's nothing flawed about my test. It duplicates the exact issue, 100% of the time. Even in (at least) two others' tests. Your runs, even with the enemy turning the wrong way, still show the stutter. (It's only a problem if you deviate from the test and try to claim the stutters were fixed...which I don't think you have.)

Moreover, I am absolutely certain that, if the stutters were actually fixed, then these stutters would not be observable in my test. So, the test allows me to reliably see the stutters, and I'm sure it would reliably show if they weren't there as well. And the only way anyone's ever going to run this test without showing stutters is if they are actually no longer occurring in the sim. That's a plenty reliable test to me.

The way the enemy AC turns has never been a problem until you ran the test (and let me point out that, unlike your test, I'm not providing a QC, it's being set up by the individual...so maybe that's why it doesn't run the same at your end). Like I said, I don't know, but it doesn't matter. I don't think it's really prudent to spend a bunch of time trying to figure that part out, when the focus is on the stutters (or should be). There are plenty of other tests, videos, etc that show the stutter. You just can't judge based on any single video that doesn't show stutters. You have to have a test that shows the stutters to being with, then shows the stutters eliminated by applying whatever fix, (and ideally then shows the stutters return when the fix is removed)...else it's not a valid test.

I have watched your video. I saw fairly significant stutters at roughly 0:33 and 0:37, even with all the view panning. Another out around 0:57. These are essentially the same stutters I see in my test, so irrespective of everything else, it looks like you have now duplicated stutters running my test.

As I described above, the car's engine noise is (still) the problem.

Nice wheels, though wink

#4478483 - 06/17/19 12:17 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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^^ God almighty here we go again^^

How does this thread go off topic and go to the "stuttering" issue again? Haven't we already got a thread started recently regarding this issue? I purposely stayed away from that one because as soon has I saw it I just knew KKS would be along with his paragraphs of "wisdom"

@HH thanks for your trackir settings and advice much appreciated and definitely for me improves my personal experience of both OBD,S sims. Take it from experience pal..you won't win with KKS,he,ll bang on and on and on.

@KKS yet again your like a dog with a bone,again you sold WOFF way back didn't you? Have you repurchased or did you keep a back up zip and sell your account/order number?(Which I believe remains the property of OBD). Do you fly WOFF and enjoy or do you just test it for "stutters" if it's the latter then I have no words,if your not enjoying it because the stutters bug you(they must because you bang on about them constantly) then why not go play something else?. Something you might enjoy? You mentioned on another thread that these issues occur in WOTR because...you've seen videos of it?? Again I fly WOTR I'm assuming you don't . I have a FPS drop at engine startup but once I'm up everything's fine again I notice NO STUTTERS.

Fwiw il say again what I've said in the past..I Personnally don't notice any "stutters" in any of the sims,I'm not saying for one minute that they arnt there,and I certainly arnt calling any of you liars..some of you guys see them some (me included) don't. I purchase sims/games for enjoyment that's the point isn't it? Enjoy WOFF for what it is..an incredible,immersive WW1 sim..probably never to be bettered. If I don't enjoy something I uninstall and fly/play something else.

Sorry HH I've done what I mentioned in my first sentence and gone OT myself,I apoligise its your thread and if you think I've gone too far il delete my post mate. I just get a bit pissed when I stay away from the subject on one thread for it to be bought up and continued on your Trackir thread pal..
Again cheers for the trackir settings they work like a charm.

Best regards Adger


"Vis unita fortior"

"United Strength is Stronger"
#4478488 - 06/17/19 12:35 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Adger]  
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Originally Posted by Adger


@HH thanks for your trackir settings and advice much appreciated and definitely for me improves my personal experience of both OBD,S sims.


+1
Working for me well aswell smile

#4478495 - 06/17/19 12:59 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Raine Offline
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Raine  Offline
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Got a brief flight in last night and tried your profile, Harry. First impressions are very good. Thanks!

#4478496 - 06/17/19 01:05 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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The issue of stutters was raised by HarryH, not me. I simply pointed out that I felt his mention of having one stutter every 25 minutes was misleading, and he agreed:

Originally Posted by HarryH
You are also right that stutters don't just occur every 25 minutes. They are certainly more likely to happen more frequently during intense action. Sorry if my comment was misleading in that respect.


No doubt his TrackIR settings may have improved the sim in general, but testing shows TrackIR has no impact on the stutters being discussed (proven by running tests that show stutter even when TrackIR isn't even being used)..

Simple as that.

#4478500 - 06/17/19 01:25 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
The issue of stutters was raised by HarryH, not me. I simply pointed out that I felt his mention of having one stutter every 25 minutes was misleading, and he agreed:

You are also right that stutters don't just occur every 25 minutes. They are certainly more likely to happen more frequently during intense action. Sorry if my comment was misleading in that respect.


Yes and out of the entire post Harry made regarding his trackir findings,your 1st post on this trackir thread quoted only the stutter sentence. No thanks or positive comments regarding the thread subject..No you see the word stutter and your eyes light up.

And what the hell all your crap you spout about regarding cars in your posts has to do with WOFF il never know.

Like I mentioned on my last post you're like a dog with a bone..you see the word stutter and pounce on it,you know it I know it,you not going to answer my previous questions about owning/flying/enjoying WOFF then KKS?

Practically every thread you comment on ends up the same..your inability to listen to others..you don't talk to people you talk AT them,you won't accept others findings or experiences with OBD,S sims..yours are all that matters. Sorry again HH,I've fallen into his trap again I sincerely apoligise ..I'm out.


"Vis unita fortior"

"United Strength is Stronger"
#4478505 - 06/17/19 01:55 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Raine Offline
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Got a brief flight in last night and tried your profile, Harry. First impressions are very good. Thanks!

#4478507 - 06/17/19 02:26 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Raine]  
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Excellent, I'm very glad that some of you are finding some benefit with this. I have refined the profile even more since my first post. I'll post an updated link here when I'm finally done, along with instructions on how to extend the backward view.

Pol, sorry again. Another thread that went a bit off topic. Please feel free to transfer it to the Technical section.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478512 - 06/17/19 02:47 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Adger Offline
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Originally Posted by HarryH
Excellent, I'm very glad that some of you are finding some benefit with this. I have refined the profile even more since my first post. I'll post an updated link here when I'm finally done, along with instructions on how to extend the backward view.

Pol, sorry again. Another thread that went a bit off topic. Please feel free to transfer it to the Technical section.


Cheers Harry any tweaks that improve your profile is appreciated. Once again my apologies.


"Vis unita fortior"

"United Strength is Stronger"
#4478518 - 06/17/19 03:17 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Adger]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by Adger
Originally Posted by HarryH
Excellent, I'm very glad that some of you are finding some benefit with this. I have refined the profile even more since my first post. I'll post an updated link here when I'm finally done, along with instructions on how to extend the backward view.

Pol, sorry again. Another thread that went a bit off topic. Please feel free to transfer it to the Technical section.


Cheers Harry any tweaks that improve your profile is appreciated. Once again my apologies.


No apology needed smile


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4478533 - 06/17/19 05:07 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: Adger]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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JJJ65  Offline
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Czech Rep.
Originally Posted by Adger
Originally Posted by HarryH
Excellent, I'm very glad that some of you are finding some benefit with this. I have refined the profile even more since my first post. I'll post an updated link here when I'm finally done, along with instructions on how to extend the backward view.

Pol, sorry again. Another thread that went a bit off topic. Please feel free to transfer it to the Technical section.


Cheers Harry any tweaks that improve your profile is appreciated.

+1
Thx

#4478803 - 06/19/19 02:37 AM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Here's a link to my final TrackIR profile, along with my WOFF detail settings and Nvidia Inspector profile for WOFF / WOTR.

Don't use the Inspector profie unless you have a G-Sync monitor!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E_AAnRjFN4DfOKM9CioShz4v2LlT2rIc

Last edited by HarryH; 06/19/19 02:38 AM.

I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4479099 - 06/20/19 03:24 PM Re: TrackIR Users - Check This Out.... [Re: HarryH]  
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Here's a recent video recorded with the above profiles and settings. Try to view in HD. Recorded at 60FPS vs the game running at ~72 FPS so there's a little bit of math making things less smooth than it actually is, but still pretty sweet IMO. Best I've had WOFF running to date. 53 minute mission, no obvious stutters. Hate landing this thing smile




I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
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