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#4476287 - 06/01/19 03:01 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: nadal]  
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Originally Posted by nadal
whats the fuss about?

From what I understand its basically freeupdate.

unless you want additional KA50 gadget like IR denier with additinal monitor in cockpit.


which ED know almost everyone will pay for the update anyway. Like all the "throwing money at the screen" fanbois who own every module\terrain\dlc but only actually fly 3 planes.

ED know how to suck people in......like the useless DCS: NS 430 Navigation System.....should have been free considering only about .0024% of people still fly the L-39 and MI-8 as their primary aircraft.

I don't own the NS-430 or fly the L-39 and MI-8.....buying the NS-430 will still not influence me to fly those aircraft.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4476290 - 06/01/19 03:23 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: nadal]  
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Originally Posted by nadal
whats the fuss about?


The fuss is about ED not fixing this module 5 years ago when everyone was commenting on the problems and ED ignored the paying customers.

Only now when they're releasing payware are they entertaining tackling the bug-fixes and making it sound like it's a quick and easy task we should all congratulate them on and be thankful for.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4476313 - 06/01/19 06:54 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
Originally Posted by nadal
whats the fuss about?


The fuss is about ED not fixing this module 5 years ago when everyone was commenting on the problems and ED ignored the paying customers.

Only now when they're releasing payware are they entertaining tackling the bug-fixes and making it sound like it's a quick and easy task we should all congratulate them on and be thankful for.

What are those 5 year old unfixed bugs? I am only aware of the texture/lighting stuff since a couple of months (since 2.3? 2.1?). Yes, BS seemed to be somewhat neglected, but since 5 years?

#4476364 - 06/02/19 10:45 AM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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there are bugs in the re-arming and also the ABRIS is a bit dicky (sometimes sea is land coloured , sometimes not)



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4476389 - 06/02/19 02:29 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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Yeah, offering a complete graphical overhaul to the externals and the internals for free is the new bottom... I fully sympathise to all who have experienced this great loss, my sincere condolences.

People who've paid for Black Shark 1 are free to install it and play right this moment. But the entitlement to lifelong updates, new features like VR is shared here of course. I am sending daily messages to Oleg Meddox and Falcon4 devs to pull their finger out and deliver the goods, darn it. I've paid me monies years back, the games are still available to buy for gullible snowflakes and yet still no VR and NO BUG FIXES! Arrgh, the money grabbing ......
explode

Last edited by Borsch; 06/02/19 02:34 PM.
#4476434 - 06/02/19 11:09 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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@Borsch: Why bother responding if you can't be bothered reading the posts?

#4476529 - 06/03/19 02:52 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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I don't see what there is to complain about. ED are fixing the issues as people have asked them to. They're also offering an optional update to a module, which is great for expanding DCS. There is no money grab here. Even if you think ED has its problems (and that's fair) it doesn't do well to turn everything into an issue. It just degrades legitimate critiques.

#4476593 - 06/03/19 07:19 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
The Black Shark "2" (paid upgrade from "1") came out about 8 years ago. It sure seems they are only fixing these bugs now because they are trying to make money on yet another paid upgrade. IMO...I think it should be more of a "We apologize for the persistent bugs over the 8 years since your purchase...here are some free features and upgrades along with bug fixes we should have fixed long ago"

But that's not what's happening here.


Did these bugs exist back then? I assume new ones occur when they upgrade the engine and do other changes to the base game. Probably over the last few years new bugs accumulated for the KA-50 and some other older modules.

For the new features I'm mixed on that. On one hand those were never advertised to be included in the original product. On the other hand why weren't they included originally? Did they KA-50 not have them back in the early 2000s? Did they have to spend a lot of time and money researching and paying fees to make the new weapon systems? If it is something they easily did they should release them for free.

#4476667 - 06/04/19 01:48 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: Exorcet]  
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
I don't see what there is to complain about. ED are fixing the issues as people have asked them to. They're also offering an optional update to a module, which is great for expanding DCS. There is no money grab here. Even if you think ED has its problems (and that's fair) it doesn't do well to turn everything into an issue. It just degrades legitimate critiques.


The fuss is about combining the long standing bug fixes with the graphical updates. The bugs have been in place for years and they've been neglected. The only reason they're addressing them now is to make money.

The fanbois think ED does this crap out of the kindness of their heart and believe everything from Wag's mouth. He's a used car salesman that speaks from both sides of his mouth.

#4476728 - 06/04/19 08:17 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: ST0RM]  
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Originally Posted by ST0RM
Originally Posted by Exorcet
I don't see what there is to complain about. ED are fixing the issues as people have asked them to. They're also offering an optional update to a module, which is great for expanding DCS. There is no money grab here. Even if you think ED has its problems (and that's fair) it doesn't do well to turn everything into an issue. It just degrades legitimate critiques.


The fuss is about combining the long standing bug fixes with the graphical updates. The bugs have been in place for years and they've been neglected. The only reason they're addressing them now is to make money.

The fanbois think ED does this crap out of the kindness of their heart and believe everything from Wag's mouth. He's a used car salesman that speaks from both sides of his mouth.

If you had to pay for the bug fixes I might understand. They're free though.

I think the fixes got consolidated with the update because it would make things simpler for everyone. Create a new cockpit model from scratch (that wold presumably allow for some bug fixes), give it as a free update so there are no issues with different versions between players, and charge for the new functionality as it took work to develop. ED would have planned this a while ago and possibly put some bugs aside until the new models were ready.

#4476730 - 06/04/19 08:48 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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So it's ok for them for not to fix the issues which have bothered users for years? I don't think so, especially when those aren't some rocket science things to fix, autopilot lights for example, which took 10 minutes for me to fix. Truth is they just don't give a #%&*$#. Fanboys just keep seeing things through ED glasses.


Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#4476736 - 06/04/19 09:59 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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For the record, I think ED can go lower than this.

#4476738 - 06/04/19 10:23 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: Exorcet]  
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
I think the fixes got consolidated with the update because it would make things simpler for everyone. Create a new cockpit model from scratch (that wold presumably allow for some bug fixes), give it as a free update so there are no issues with different versions between players, and charge for the new functionality as it took work to develop. ED would have planned this a while ago and possibly put some bugs aside until the new models were ready.



Errr nope. ED are only entertaining the bug fixes because they couldn't hope to release payware for the KA50 when everyone knows there are major bugs that haven't been touched for years....they simply can't ignore them and try to flog upgrades to that module. And let's be honest....ED don't plan anything, they haven't got a clue which direction they're going in, tackle things on the fly and have never had a coherent roadmap.

Perhaps you can give one good reason why the outstanding bugs haven't been touched in years? 'Making things easier for everyone' is not an answer.....it's certainly not easier for ED as they'd prefer not to fix the bugs at all and save resources. It's not easy for the customer base as a load of people have moved well away from what was one of the most polished modules until the bugs, glitches and control issues started surfacing. Perhaps ED are actually getting people to cover bug fix costs from the people who are prepared to drop yet more funds in a minor graphical update.

The whole thing just stinks....what's the odds on payware functionality or campaigns being released for the F18 before the bugs are removed from that, or before the base functionality is finished! It just sets a precedence.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4476755 - 06/05/19 03:39 AM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: Paradaz]  
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I'm so old, I remember buying a second DLC license for Flaming Cliffs because ED's early DRM, a second copy of A10 for Steam because ED's DRM, and paying for two different versions of Black Shark because "policy" while waiting more than six years for Nevada while losing Crimea, which amazingly became very topically relevant during this period of time.

#4476777 - 06/05/19 01:31 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
ED are only entertaining the bug fixes because they couldn't hope to release payware for the KA50 when everyone knows there are major bugs that haven't been touched for years.....


@Exorcet ^^^ THIS

Money is the only language they speak. Zero cares about the community and their obligation to their products. Being the only producer of a modern combat sim, they can do as they please.

#4476783 - 06/05/19 02:45 PM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: ST0RM]  
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Originally Posted by IceecI
So it's ok for them for not to fix the issues which have bothered users for years? I don't think so, especially when those aren't some rocket science things to fix, autopilot lights for example, which took 10 minutes for me to fix. Truth is they just don't give a #%&*$#. Fanboys just keep seeing things through ED glasses.


The thing is they are fixing them. It's fine to say it took too long, but you can't say that it's not happening when they're actually doing it. It would be nice if these things happened faster, especially for small stuff like lights, but at the same time it's also not clear why it took as long as it did to fix these things.

Originally Posted by Paradaz
Errr nope. ED are only entertaining the bug fixes because they couldn't hope to release payware for the KA50 when everyone knows there are major bugs that haven't been touched for years....they simply can't ignore them and try to flog upgrades to that module. And let's be honest....ED don't plan anything, they haven't got a clue which direction they're going in, tackle things on the fly and have never had a coherent roadmap.

Perhaps you can give one good reason why the outstanding bugs haven't been touched in years? 'Making things easier for everyone' is not an answer.....it's certainly not easier for ED as they'd prefer not to fix the bugs at all and save resources. It's not easy for the customer base as a load of people have moved well away from what was one of the most polished modules until the bugs, glitches and control issues started surfacing. Perhaps ED are actually getting people to cover bug fix costs from the people who are prepared to drop yet more funds in a minor graphical update.

The whole thing just stinks....what's the odds on payware functionality or campaigns being released for the F18 before the bugs are removed from that, or before the base functionality is finished! It just sets a precedence.


Without being able to look into ED's processes internally, you can't know why the bug fixes took as long as they did. However it makes sense for ED to combine the bug fixes with an update when they have both long lived bugs that are due for a fix and an older module with lower graphical quality compared to later offerings.

As for the F-18, it's early access, so I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if that was the case. The business model for their modules is to release them piece by piece, and they're completely up front with that. Though if the idea bothers you I'd suggest not buying the content until the module is in a state you accept. Personally I feel like ED is past their first steps with DCS so I've slowed down on buying modules and I'm skipping on some early access purchases. The Yak, despite being a simple aircraft seems to have a few issues with the basic flight model. I'm waiting until it's more mature to buy it. Anyone wanting to push them toward more complete releases can do the same. I'm still undecided on the F-16 so I'm waiting for more information.

Originally Posted by ST0RM
@Exorcet ^^^ THIS

Money is the only language they speak. Zero cares about the community and their obligation to their products. Being the only producer of a modern combat sim, they can do as they please.

Well I don't get it. The bug fixes are free but happen to come about alongside a payed update. That's not an issue for me. I understand frustration at the time it's taken, but this still doesn't feel like it's all about money.

#4476852 - 06/06/19 06:43 AM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: Exorcet]  
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by IceecI
So it's ok for them for not to fix the issues which have bothered users for years? I don't think so, especially when those aren't some rocket science things to fix, autopilot lights for example, which took 10 minutes for me to fix. Truth is they just don't give a #%&*$#. Fanboys just keep seeing things through ED glasses.


The thing is they are fixing them. It's fine to say it took too long, but you can't say that it's not happening when they're actually doing it. It would be nice if these things happened faster, especially for small stuff like lights, but at the same time it's also not clear why it took as long as it did to fix these things.


Actually it's quite clear, all their time goes to making new modules, so they can get more of that hmm... what was it called... oh yea $$$money$$$. So they don't bother with the old modules even when they have non-working features, bugs etc. It is intentional and people including me have every right to be angry at them. People who have bought the modules are the ones who keep the company standing, so why is it so hard for people to understand that if no one talks about these issues. It just goes worse and worse when they see that people don't react to their wrongdoings.

Quote
Well I don't get it. The bug fixes are free but happen to come about alongside a payed update.


Nothing "just happens" in business. They're probably holding back other bugfixes so they can make this kind of stunt later on.


Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#4476855 - 06/06/19 07:47 AM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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When ED put their foot in it....

Originally Posted by NineLine
when we have a firm plan, we will let everyone know.


I could have a field day with just that quote alone....

Source

Or, how many times has this crap been regurgitated over the years?

Originally Posted by NineLine
Also, please keep in mind that this is not a simple, normal update. This is a move to an all new branch which entails many complications.


which to me reads something like "yes, we are aware of outstanding bugs in our modules and maps....brace yourself as after this update you can expect more bugs in our modules and maps"



#4476856 - 06/06/19 07:51 AM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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*lightning strike**thunder*


Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#4476861 - 06/06/19 09:12 AM Re: Just when you thought ED couldn't go any lower..... [Re: IceecI]  
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Originally Posted by IceecI
*lightning strike**thunder*


the lightning strike is the update.....all flashy and extravagant.....followed by the rumble and loud noise within the community of ED and consumer's asking each other what damage the lightning caused. Saying to one another "that was close, hope it didn't damage anything"

meanwhile with the next update, the damage is already done. Just like a severe storm and that one lightning strike has left thousands disappointed and without power. it will be days before the repairs are carried out, if not weeks\months\years.

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