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#4474569 - 05/18/19 01:17 PM Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard  
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Craigmire Offline
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My disaster recovery method is to have two hard disks and periodically clone the C: drive to E: and change the boot order if disaster happens and clone back. With both these drives being identical I don't know any way with just Win7 to know which physical drive is the C: drive. The only way I know is to use the DiskWizard and start the clone function. You can see in the picture that Disk 1 = drive 1BD142 = E:. If you click on Disk 2 the E: (lower down) changes to C: That's how I think I know which disk I'm booting from. I haven't ever changed the boot order in the bios and I've noticed sometimes the C: drive is Disk1 and sometimes Disk2. I thought maybe that was due to some enumeration process in the bios could go either way for some reason so sometimes C: could be listed as disk1 or disk2 but the physical disk that I boot should always be the same until I change the boot order. Now I see with my notes at one point C = disk1 = drive 1BD142 and now C = disk2 = drive 1SB10A. I don't know how that could have happened. If for some reason I did boot from the backup disk I would think surely I would have noticed some things missing like files and bookmarks.

Does anyone have an idea what could be going on? Maybe a recommendation of some easy disk management software I could use to verify what DiskWizard is telling me.

Thanks

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"There is nothing wrong with laziness. The old saying 'The early bird gets the worm', just goes to show you the worm should have stayed in bed. So, when I volunteered for WW II, I signed up to be a fighter pilot because it was a sittin' down job." -- Robert Heinlein
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#4474627 - 05/18/19 11:24 PM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Craigmire]  
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Raw Kryptonite Offline
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IIRC, since Vista, C is whatever your active boot drive is. As you go back and forth, it will change to keep that the case. That's why it is different from last time you swapped which one to boot from.


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#4474667 - 05/19/19 10:31 AM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Craigmire Offline
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Thanks for the reply Raw Kryptonite. Exactly, except I never have swapped which drive to boot from.

Last edited by Craigmire; 05/19/19 11:38 AM.

"There is nothing wrong with laziness. The old saying 'The early bird gets the worm', just goes to show you the worm should have stayed in bed. So, when I volunteered for WW II, I signed up to be a fighter pilot because it was a sittin' down job." -- Robert Heinlein
#4474669 - 05/19/19 10:51 AM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Craigmire]  
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Allen Offline
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FWIW a related method:

I use an SSD for the main C: drive -- cheap these days and noticeably faster load times. I use two hard drives to save system images (using the built in W7 or W10 system image maker). I alternate hard drives in updating the image so I have two copies on two different HD to fall back on. If the SSD hardware fails, I'd buy a new one; but, that's never happened. Once or twice a year, I do use one of the images. It all works easily.

So, an alternative for your situation would be to buy a 250GB SSD and use it for C: (if the current method is giving issues}. The two backup images and faster loads would be a bonus. A 500GB SSD would allow a few games on SSD. The HD can both be used for system images, games, and other files with this method. FWIW


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#4474672 - 05/19/19 12:16 PM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Craigmire]  
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Craigmire Offline
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Thanks for the reply Allen. I'll have to read up on the W7 system image maker. I'm thinking an image and clone are different where an image is a compressed iso thing and you couldn't boot from it. If you have a windows system failure it goes to system recovery mode and can use the images. Is that right?

I hear what you're saying about the alternative and that sounds good except I'm not sure if I should trust windows to be mission critical software. The cloning method is so simple and I can't see anyway how windows could screw it up. What started this is yesterday I turned on the monitor to see the system failure screen and none of the options worked. I finally get back to the bios screen and force a power down. I power up - start windows normally - and no problem. That's an example why I don't trust windows. I suppose an alpha particle might have hit a logic gate at the wrong time or something intermittent but who knows. I've been doing the cloning for 15 years and never had an issue until I started using my new W7 work comp. Is it possible the bios could detect something wrong and boot from the next device and you not even know it? If that happened I would think I would know it from recent work gone missing. I may have made a mistake in my notebook and C drive never was disk1 but that seems almost impossible even as senile as I'm getting.

I appreciate your thoughts and expertise.


"There is nothing wrong with laziness. The old saying 'The early bird gets the worm', just goes to show you the worm should have stayed in bed. So, when I volunteered for WW II, I signed up to be a fighter pilot because it was a sittin' down job." -- Robert Heinlein
#4474783 - 05/20/19 01:52 AM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Craigmire]  
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Allen Offline
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Originally Posted by Craigmire
If you have a windows system failure it goes to system recovery mode and can use the images. Is that right?


Yes -- sort of. W7 or W10 creates a WindowsSystemImage file folder that you can store anywhere (e.g. your second hard drive). You also create a recovery DVD the first time you make a WindowsSystemImage (just insert DVD and click).

Upon C: drive failure you can use the same physical drive or a new one. You boot using the DVD. One of the recovery choices is to restore the system using the WindowsSystemImage. If necessary, the program on the DVD cleans and reformats the old or new C: drive.

The Image making application is in the Control Panel - Backup and Restore section. It makes the WindowsSystemImage and the recovery DVD (which can also be used for other less aggressive types of recovery).

As a side issue, Microsoft claims it really will stop supporting W7 in 2020 (they've said that type of thing before). Also, up to date CPUs and motherboards no longer work well with W7 and some no longer work at all with W7. Just a consideration depending on how much cash and effort you may be planning to put into getting W7 to work. W10 OEM activation codes can usually be procured for under $20 if you need to switch. But, some older intel CPUs are not fully supported by W10 (my son-in-law just had that problem).

The method I've suggested (use W7 image maker) is just an alternative if you can't get your preferred method to work for some odd reason. Anything you've been doing for 15 years ought to work at least one more time smile


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#4474825 - 05/20/19 01:24 PM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Allen]  
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Craigmire Offline
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Thanks for your advice and explanations Allen. I really like the idea with a SSD for the primary working drive and two backup drives. That's more than twice better than what I'm doing because you can alternate between the backup drives. That's really what I should do and I could continue using the clone method for the backups.

I built this computer a year ago and went with win7 because of the mandatory updating with win10. I should just get used to it but I'm old and stubborn. If I didn't like doing modding work on Oblivion in the morning on this work computer I would seriously look at switching to Linux. It seems to me if an OS needs to be constantly getting security updates then it's a POS operating system. Some day I will be forced to win10 or Linux. For now I'll see how it goes and try to work up the nerve to add that SSD (I hate to mess with my work computer). I can always get a ready-to-go laptop to access my banking and email.

Here's another tidbit. I tried to create a restore point and found, for the second time, that system protection was turned off. When that happens all your restore points are deleted. The screenshot is after I turned protection on for C:. Before it was off for E: and C: and on for that folder looking thing that is missing. I corrected this a month ago and now it's back just like it was. I wonder if protection has to be on for both drives even though it doesn't make sense to be creating restore points for a backup drive. I haven't found any help on the internet for this. Maybe when I had the system failure is when it got turned off and the restore points deleted. smile2

Thanks

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"There is nothing wrong with laziness. The old saying 'The early bird gets the worm', just goes to show you the worm should have stayed in bed. So, when I volunteered for WW II, I signed up to be a fighter pilot because it was a sittin' down job." -- Robert Heinlein
#4474840 - 05/20/19 03:39 PM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Craigmire]  
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Allen Offline
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A fellow modder smile In games where I can, I mod almost as many hours as I play -- its half the fun.

I only have C: restore point turned "on" -- all other drives are "off". It updates automatically when W10 loads new updates. I've never dug in more deeply -- as it "just works" for me. You may know all that.

The DVD one makes as part of setting up a WindowsSystemImage folder can be used to boot one's computer (if it fails to boot normally) and it gives one the choice to go to a Restore Point -- rather than a complete return to the WindowsSystemImage. As your screen shot shows, it is not necessary to boot from DVD to use system restore (which is different from WindowsSystemImage). You may know all that.

Adding an SSD is easy (on paper). Just need the SSD, a power connector (may already be one hanging around in the case), and a data connector -- just like the Hard Drives. Moving the OS to the SSD can be done with WindowsSystemImage or with a piece of third party software -- like Clone Disk Wizard (I assume. I have not used that one). A consideration with SSD: Get one large enough to leave half-empty or more -- it adds to reliability. However, it can be 80 or 90 percent full and work well. I put only Windows and my Applications on my main SSD. Games go on HD or a different SSD.

Have fun fixing it up the way you want it. More than one right way to do things smile


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#4474928 - 05/21/19 11:49 AM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Allen]  
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Craigmire Offline
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Alright then, thanks for the discussion. For now I'm going to wait and see for at least a couple weeks. Everyday day I'll check which drive is C: and if system protection is on and then go from there. I think reliability of a SSD is more important than the speed for me. I've never had a MHD crash but they do have mechanical moving parts. I know they say you could hardly wear a SSD out in a lifetime but I over think everything so I'll get at least a 500GB. I should be able to install and then clone C: to it (on paper). It only take ten minutes to clone my 500GB drives and windows is not even running which is the part I like.

I agree that modding is half the fun and it makes the playing more fun too to get your handy dandy modifications into the game.

If anyone else looking at this thread has had a similar experience where a total disaster has been totally fixed with a power cycle (fingers crossed) I would be interested to know if maybe these things sometimes happen and I don't need to worry so much until it starts repeating.

Thanks


"There is nothing wrong with laziness. The old saying 'The early bird gets the worm', just goes to show you the worm should have stayed in bed. So, when I volunteered for WW II, I signed up to be a fighter pilot because it was a sittin' down job." -- Robert Heinlein
#4483192 - 07/18/19 06:52 AM Re: Disk backup with Seagate DiskWizard [Re: Craigmire]  
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EliM Offline
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There are several Disk Management Tools you can use. One of this is EaseUS Partition Master Free Edition, Macrorit Disk Partition Expert, Paragon Partition Manager, Gparted, Cute Partition Manager, among others which are easy to use.
Eli │ www.watersoftenergurus.com


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