#4472273 - 04/29/19 04:25 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: Coot]
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Ssnake
Virtual Shiva Beast
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Virtual Shiva Beast
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Germoney
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Hey Ssnake, I have a say just as you do Yes, you do, and I didn't mean to come across confrontative. It's just, you'll have to make a choice between one of three alternatives, and doing nothing is one such choice. Each of these options will have consequences as laid out above. I'm very blunt about this topic not because I think you're stupid but because of all the other readers of this thread that may be in a similar situation. I can empathize with the emotional reservations to switch to Windows 10. But if you are still on Windows 7 you got here because you've been procrastinating a hard, but necessary decision. Kicking the can further down the road is, in my professional opinion, the worst choice unless you are, indeed, willing to pull the internet plug. Which, however, is only further delaying the inevitable. Sooner or later you'll run into compatibility issues. It is _my opinion_ that Windows 10 is the least problematic option, at least as far as the involved workload is concerned. Even privacy issues can be dealt with in an acceptable manner. MS introduced the OS registration with Windows XP; technically the last Windows version that truly left you alone was Windows 2000. Forced updates you got with Windows 7. Microsoft wouldn't have bothered with it were it not for the fact that 99% of all Windows users are terrible, terrible administrators of their own IT systems. As usual, 90% of all regulation that sucks is a reaction to the 2% imbeciles that do stupid stuff that endangers other people (except that in this case the 2% are 99%, at which point you have to admit that there wasn't really much else that MS could have done to respond to that situation). Yes, you're losing freedom, but you're free to switch to some entirely different OS. It's just that you picked Windows for reasons, and those reasons haven't gone away. If you decide to update to Windows 10 and if you are concerned about your privacy - a perfectly reasonable position - you basically need two things. During the first reboot, cut the internet conncetion. Create your "indispensable Microsoft account" later (MUCH later. Like, never). When the upgrade is complete, run O&O's "Shutup 10", change your settings. Reboot. Change the settings again. Reboot. Change settings one more time, Reboot. Check settings one last time for good measure. And remember to do so again after every major update. Yes, it sucks, but if it's important to you it's a problem that can be dealt with. Other than that, and the GUI changes, Windows 10 isn't half bad.
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#4472280 - 04/29/19 04:42 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,751
rwatson
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,751
New Concord, Ohio
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OK I'm om Win 7 now and looks like I might have to bite the bullet..I need a Win 10 Version with it's own key..Had to reinstall Win 7 and it wouldn't accept the key on the side of the box,Sais call HP ,,That was useless But the computer store put in an OEM version,,,Any suggestions about where to buy Win 10 ??
Russ Semper Fi
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#4472293 - 04/29/19 05:29 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,296
Mark Aisthorpe
Crazy Courier
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Crazy Courier
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,296
London UK
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For those here who's main objection to Win 10 is the horrible start menu (I agree) there's an easy solution. http://www.classicshell.net/You can have Win 10 look like pretty much any previous version of Windows you want with this.
Asus Maximus XI Hero i9-9900K 32Gb Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR4 3200MHz MSI RTX 2080Ti Ventus Corsair H115i Corsair RM850X PSU Phanteks Evolv X Asus VG32G Monitor 2560x1440 Win 10
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#4472296 - 04/29/19 05:43 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: Mr_Blastman]
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,576
Arthonon
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,576
California
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You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.
My computer.
MY data.
None of their #%&*$# business.
This is why many of us want to stay on Windows 7. We aren't chattel. Yep, if only Microsoft would update Windows 7 forever, you wouldn't have to worry about the data being gathered by Windows 10. Sure, they are both from Microsoft, and they can put anything they want in an update, but I'm sure they would never add any tracking changes to Windows 7 through an update. Would they?
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#4472311 - 04/29/19 06:58 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: Coot]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,480
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,480
Miami, FL USA
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an almost 12 year old Steam library full of game purchases. Games that you already have installed in Steam you can launch with no internet connection. You just wouldn't be able to buy any new games or do any multiplayer obviously. Some of the social gaming stuff like achievements also won't work anymore.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4472331 - 04/29/19 09:18 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Ssnake
Virtual Shiva Beast
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Virtual Shiva Beast
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Germoney
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Technically the Steam application is a web browser. The question is, how much will you trust the Steam network to suppress malicious code. _I_ wouldn't risk it, but then again my user profile is markedly different from yours. My professional advice still is to switch to Windows 10. You can still pull the plug, or configure it to send all telemetry data to 127.0.0.0 rather than to Microsoft if you don't trust the Windows settings themselves (or Shutup 10). The point is, it really requires but a single sting to puncture the Windows 7 security at some point in the future. Querying the operating system is a standard function for any web server. Loading specific code and injecting it into an HTML page to exploit a well-documented vulnerability is the standard technique. In which case Oleg will do the upgrading of your system for you, as his script assimilates your computer into his Borg net. The reality is, we're all operating in a high-threat cyber environment, if we know it or not. Our servers get attacked non-stop by automated tests that simply scan for open ports and then probe for vulnerabilities; it's not like they are targeting us specifically, it's just what they do to EVERY machine, all the time. If your computer has an external IP address, it will get tested by people like Oleg. If you open a web page that delivers ad rotations, any of those ads can already contain the code to install a tiny program that will then load bigger software packages to rip your security apart within minutes while you still browse the web. And since Windows 7 receives no more updates it means that it cannot detect such attacks, let alone defend against them. Of course you could use adblockers, and switch off Javascript. Or use Lynx. That certainly helps to reduce your exposure, but even then your vulnerability still remains. It's like a patient with an immune system that fades away. You can try and isolate him but sooner or later some microbes will find their way into his body and if the immune system hasn't been strengthened, even otherwise harmless infections can kill him within very short periods.
The rational response to an environment full of bacteria isn't to develop germophobia and then to collect your pee in milk jars. Only eccentric billionaires have that privilege. Rather, you do everything to strengthen your immune system, and you apply basic principles of hygiene. Like, Adblockers still aren't such a bad idea even if your operating system is up to date. You maintain your virus scanner with regular updates. You install a firewall. You configure your router to not respond to incoming requests. You don't switch off your brains when installing "free" software from shady sources.
I'm not saying that becoming a recluse can't work. All I'm saying is, it's a risky path (you need to let your guard down only once), and a very stony one at that. Be sure that you choose this road for the right reasons.
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#4472333 - 04/29/19 09:38 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: Mr_Blastman]
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Ssnake
Virtual Shiva Beast
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Virtual Shiva Beast
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 7,747
Germoney
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You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.
My computer.
MY data.
None of their #%&*$# business. While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph. Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you. I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default.
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#4472346 - 04/29/19 11:06 PM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: Ssnake]
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,617
Mr_Blastman
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,617
Atlanta, GA
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You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.
My computer.
MY data.
None of their #%&*$# business. While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph. Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you. I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default. No smartphone No voice command television No Alexa No GPS in my car No Facebook No Instagram, Pinterest, or any other social media beyond LinkedIn I think I'm doing pretty good.
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#4472365 - 04/30/19 01:36 AM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: Mr_Blastman]
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,845
JimK
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,845
Spokane,WA
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You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.
My computer.
MY data.
None of their #%&*$# business. While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph. Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you. I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default. No smartphone No voice command television No Alexa No GPS in my car No Facebook No Instagram, Pinterest, or any other social media beyond LinkedIn I think I'm doing pretty good. WOW, same boat, but need to unload a lot. When time comes, I will let it die and try live live. Grew up a boy scout, still have all those old school skills. Think its time to revert back before I die. Which does not feel far away. Health is taking a turn I never expected.
Erebus Full Tower:Windows 7 Ult 64bit:Intel� Core� i7 3930K Processor(6x 3.20GHz)32GB[4 GB X8] DDR3-1866:GPU NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan 6GB:1.5Kw PSU: 43" Sceptre 4k: LG Blu-ray burner,: hd1/750GB,hd2/2TB,hd3/1TB,hd4/1TB,HD5/4TB Youtube videosFlickr Photos
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#4472375 - 04/30/19 03:00 AM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,255
Coot
Pilgrim
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Pilgrim
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,255
These United States of America
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I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. I'm glad you stand against that Ssnake. That's part of the bigger picture my posts were referring to. A likely divorce is in my future regardless when I feel the time is right. I hope others do as well if inclined.
Last edited by Coot; 04/30/19 04:18 AM.
John 10:1-30 Romans 10:1-13
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#4472399 - 04/30/19 09:47 AM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: F4UDash4]
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,506
DM
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,506
Prague
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Meh. I guess, after holding out for as long as I reasonably could, that I'll just upgrade to Win 10. Now that I'm dabbling in VR gaming I'm finding more and more instances where Win 7 is more of a hindrance for that. It's as good as any reason to upgrade, when the old OS just cannot access functionality that I now need. For information, I Googled how to upgrade for free: https://www.howtogeek.com/272201/all-the-ways-you-can-still-get-windows-10-for-free/If you still have your Win 7/8/etc key then it seems you should be good to go. After "holding out" for as long as I could, I eventually had to move to Win 10 on my work machine. It's not nearly as traumatic as I had thought. So my two home PCs will get upgraded assuming the old keys work.
"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
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#4472405 - 04/30/19 10:45 AM
Re: Windows 7, the End is Near
[Re: Ssnake]
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,506
DM
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,506
Prague
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If you don't trust the manufacturer of an operating system, you shouldn't use that operating system in the first place. It's not that I don't trust MS, I do generally, but my nature is that I don't upgrade unless there's a compelling reason to. I paid a lot of money for Win 7 Pro and I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that upgrading at that time meant I was going from an expensive Pro OS to a free base version where every time there was an update I'd see stuff appearing on my desktop I didn't really want. My current compelling reasons have arrived: no more security updates and VR functionality.
"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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