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#4472264 - 04/29/19 03:49 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Interesting is that the "alternatives" suggested for don't migrate for Windows 10 is more complicated than just install Windows 10. smile

I did - after all are free; the interface is indeed a steep back (relative to wind 7 simplicity), but in few weeks get used, and this OS has proved "rock solid" for my (few) games.;)

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#4472270 - 04/29/19 04:19 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I have not had a single blue screen crash at all under WIN 10 so far. It is indeed a rock solid OS.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472273 - 04/29/19 04:25 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
Hey Ssnake, I have a say just as you do


Yes, you do, and I didn't mean to come across confrontative. It's just, you'll have to make a choice between one of three alternatives, and doing nothing is one such choice. Each of these options will have consequences as laid out above. I'm very blunt about this topic not because I think you're stupid but because of all the other readers of this thread that may be in a similar situation. I can empathize with the emotional reservations to switch to Windows 10. But if you are still on Windows 7 you got here because you've been procrastinating a hard, but necessary decision. Kicking the can further down the road is, in my professional opinion, the worst choice unless you are, indeed, willing to pull the internet plug. Which, however, is only further delaying the inevitable. Sooner or later you'll run into compatibility issues.

It is _my opinion_ that Windows 10 is the least problematic option, at least as far as the involved workload is concerned. Even privacy issues can be dealt with in an acceptable manner. MS introduced the OS registration with Windows XP; technically the last Windows version that truly left you alone was Windows 2000. Forced updates you got with Windows 7. Microsoft wouldn't have bothered with it were it not for the fact that 99% of all Windows users are terrible, terrible administrators of their own IT systems. As usual, 90% of all regulation that sucks is a reaction to the 2% imbeciles that do stupid stuff that endangers other people (except that in this case the 2% are 99%, at which point you have to admit that there wasn't really much else that MS could have done to respond to that situation). Yes, you're losing freedom, but you're free to switch to some entirely different OS. It's just that you picked Windows for reasons, and those reasons haven't gone away.

If you decide to update to Windows 10 and if you are concerned about your privacy - a perfectly reasonable position - you basically need two things. During the first reboot, cut the internet conncetion. Create your "indispensable Microsoft account" later (MUCH later. Like, never). When the upgrade is complete, run O&O's "Shutup 10", change your settings. Reboot. Change the settings again. Reboot. Change settings one more time, Reboot. Check settings one last time for good measure. And remember to do so again after every major update. Yes, it sucks, but if it's important to you it's a problem that can be dealt with. Other than that, and the GUI changes, Windows 10 isn't half bad.

#4472277 - 04/29/19 04:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

This is why many of us want to stay on Windows 7. We aren't chattel.

#4472280 - 04/29/19 04:42 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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rwatson Offline
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OK I'm om Win 7 now and looks like I might have to bite the bullet..I need a Win 10 Version with it's own key..Had to reinstall Win 7 and it wouldn't accept the key on the side of the box,Sais call HP ,,That was useless But the computer store put in an OEM version,,,Any suggestions about where to buy Win 10 ??


Russ
Semper Fi
#4472293 - 04/29/19 05:29 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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For those here who's main objection to Win 10 is the horrible start menu (I agree) there's an easy solution.
http://www.classicshell.net/
You can have Win 10 look like pretty much any previous version of Windows you want with this.


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Win 10
#4472294 - 04/29/19 05:31 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Watch Amazon, occasionally resellers have keys for sale, picked up a pro key for $12 a few months back, works legit with MS. Catch is they'll never transfer to a new machine, and probably won't if you make major hardware changes either.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html

#4472296 - 04/29/19 05:43 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

This is why many of us want to stay on Windows 7. We aren't chattel.

Yep, if only Microsoft would update Windows 7 forever, you wouldn't have to worry about the data being gathered by Windows 10. Sure, they are both from Microsoft, and they can put anything they want in an update, but I'm sure they would never add any tracking changes to Windows 7 through an update. Would they?


Ken Cartwright

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#4472304 - 04/29/19 06:31 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Mr_Blastman Offline
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They already have tried to. One of those updates I've purposefully made changes to Windows Update to avoid.

#4472310 - 04/29/19 06:55 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Coot Offline
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I'm not speaking to OS upgrades or Windows 7 Vs Windows 10. If I've not been clear on that forgive me. My mind is on something else. I'm referring to the day where one may need to seriously consider divorcing themselves from certain types of technology, especially online always type technology. As a gamer that's not something I'd immediately look forward to and would be somewhat painful especially considering an almost 12 year old Steam library full of game purchases.

#4472311 - 04/29/19 06:58 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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PanzerMeyer Offline
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Originally Posted by Coot
an almost 12 year old Steam library full of game purchases.



Games that you already have installed in Steam you can launch with no internet connection. You just wouldn't be able to buy any new games or do any multiplayer obviously. Some of the social gaming stuff like achievements also won't work anymore.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472324 - 04/29/19 08:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Coot Offline
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I think you have to have Steam go online at least once though to change games into offline mode. Is that correct? I'm not sure about that as it isn't something I've really tried often. This discussion also made me wonder something else and it has to do with Steam. If you have an internet connection solely to download, reinstall or play games on your Steam account, as long as you don't go online in an internet browser would your system still be relatively safe? I would think Steam's security would remain intact for the program itself.

#4472331 - 04/29/19 09:18 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Technically the Steam application is a web browser. The question is, how much will you trust the Steam network to suppress malicious code. _I_ wouldn't risk it, but then again my user profile is markedly different from yours. My professional advice still is to switch to Windows 10. You can still pull the plug, or configure it to send all telemetry data to 127.0.0.0 rather than to Microsoft if you don't trust the Windows settings themselves (or Shutup 10). The point is, it really requires but a single sting to puncture the Windows 7 security at some point in the future. Querying the operating system is a standard function for any web server. Loading specific code and injecting it into an HTML page to exploit a well-documented vulnerability is the standard technique. In which case Oleg will do the upgrading of your system for you, as his script assimilates your computer into his Borg net.
The reality is, we're all operating in a high-threat cyber environment, if we know it or not. Our servers get attacked non-stop by automated tests that simply scan for open ports and then probe for vulnerabilities; it's not like they are targeting us specifically, it's just what they do to EVERY machine, all the time. If your computer has an external IP address, it will get tested by people like Oleg. If you open a web page that delivers ad rotations, any of those ads can already contain the code to install a tiny program that will then load bigger software packages to rip your security apart within minutes while you still browse the web. And since Windows 7 receives no more updates it means that it cannot detect such attacks, let alone defend against them. Of course you could use adblockers, and switch off Javascript. Or use Lynx. That certainly helps to reduce your exposure, but even then your vulnerability still remains. It's like a patient with an immune system that fades away. You can try and isolate him but sooner or later some microbes will find their way into his body and if the immune system hasn't been strengthened, even otherwise harmless infections can kill him within very short periods.

The rational response to an environment full of bacteria isn't to develop germophobia and then to collect your pee in milk jars. Only eccentric billionaires have that privilege. Rather, you do everything to strengthen your immune system, and you apply basic principles of hygiene. Like, Adblockers still aren't such a bad idea even if your operating system is up to date. You maintain your virus scanner with regular updates. You install a firewall. You configure your router to not respond to incoming requests. You don't switch off your brains when installing "free" software from shady sources.

I'm not saying that becoming a recluse can't work. All I'm saying is, it's a risky path (you need to let your guard down only once), and a very stony one at that. Be sure that you choose this road for the right reasons.

#4472333 - 04/29/19 09:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph.
Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you.

I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default.

#4472346 - 04/29/19 11:06 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Ssnake]  
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Mr_Blastman Offline
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph.
Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you.

I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default.


No smartphone
No voice command television
No Alexa
No GPS in my car
No Facebook
No Instagram, Pinterest, or any other social media beyond LinkedIn

I think I'm doing pretty good. smile

#4472365 - 04/30/19 01:36 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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JimK Online hick
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted by Ssnake
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph.
Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you.

I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default.


No smartphone
No voice command television
No Alexa
No GPS in my car
No Facebook
No Instagram, Pinterest, or any other social media beyond LinkedIn

I think I'm doing pretty good. smile


WOW, same boat, but need to unload a lot. When time comes, I will let it die and try live live. Grew up a boy scout, still have all those old school skills.
Think its time to revert back before I die. Which does not feel far away. Health is taking a turn I never expected.


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#4472375 - 04/30/19 03:00 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Coot Offline
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Quote
I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords.
I'm glad you stand against that Ssnake. That's part of the bigger picture my posts were referring to. A likely divorce is in my future regardless when I feel the time is right. I hope others do as well if inclined.

Last edited by Coot; 04/30/19 04:18 AM.
#4472399 - 04/30/19 09:47 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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DM Offline
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Meh. I guess, after holding out for as long as I reasonably could, that I'll just upgrade to Win 10. Now that I'm dabbling in VR gaming I'm finding more and more instances where Win 7 is more of a hindrance for that. It's as good as any reason to upgrade, when the old OS just cannot access functionality that I now need.

For information, I Googled how to upgrade for free:
https://www.howtogeek.com/272201/all-the-ways-you-can-still-get-windows-10-for-free/

If you still have your Win 7/8/etc key then it seems you should be good to go.

After "holding out" for as long as I could, I eventually had to move to Win 10 on my work machine. It's not nearly as traumatic as I had thought. So my two home PCs will get upgraded assuming the old keys work.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4472402 - 04/30/19 10:31 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Ssnake Offline
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If you don't trust the manufacturer of an operating system, you shouldn't use that operating system in the first place.

#4472405 - 04/30/19 10:45 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Ssnake]  
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DM Offline
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DM  Offline
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Prague
Originally Posted by Ssnake
If you don't trust the manufacturer of an operating system, you shouldn't use that operating system in the first place.


It's not that I don't trust MS, I do generally, but my nature is that I don't upgrade unless there's a compelling reason to. I paid a lot of money for Win 7 Pro and I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that upgrading at that time meant I was going from an expensive Pro OS to a free base version where every time there was an update I'd see stuff appearing on my desktop I didn't really want.

My current compelling reasons have arrived: no more security updates and VR functionality.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
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