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#4471886 - 04/25/19 09:16 PM WOFF G-SYNC Balancing  
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Hi All,

Once in a while I feel compelled, as others I've seen here also do, just to say how bloody incredible WOFF UE is. The attention to detail that OBD put into this SIM is amazing. Just the other day, in my Halb DII career, I was flying the outer left edge of the Vee formation and noticed that, by watching the smoke stacks of the machines ahead of me, I could see when they were accelerating or decelerating, based on the thickness of the exhaust fumes, making it easier to keep in formation by adjusting my own throttle accordingly. Such a blast....

The other thing I've been focusing on since upgrading my graphics card, is performance balancing and optimizations. I am still finding that G-Sync with V-Sync at 1/2 refresh rate has made a huge leap forward in all around performance. Another thing that may not be new to everyone here, is that, somewhat counter-intuitively, clouds tend to disappear and flicker less at the highest setting (5) than at lower settings. Peoples' setups are all different of course, so this may not be the case for everyone. I have also discovered that TrackIR settings really do need to be balanced correctly to reduce micro stutters. I think I have finally arrived at the optimal game settings for my new hardware, which are very different than with my older graphics card. I now have WOFF running really sweetly (only very occasional cloud flicker, minimal cloud popping, very smooth head movements and virtually no micro stutters except sometimes during takeoff and at the usual one hour into the mission mark when additional flights load in), to the point where I'm almost tempted to stop tweaking things smile I'd be happy to share notes on settings and talk optimizations, etc. if anyone's interested. Just PM me.

I am soooo looking forward to this new patch / add-on that's coming!

Cheers all, Happy Flying.

H

UPDATE: G-SYNC MONITOR OWNERS - SEE LATER POSTS FOR MORE INFO

Last edited by HarryH; 04/28/19 01:03 AM. Reason: Title change

I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4471930 - 04/26/19 07:16 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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I just recently thinked I would ask you about progress of your latest tweaking experience and settings. So, if you can share your video card and TrackIR settings, I would be very appreciated.
Thx.

#4471964 - 04/26/19 03:09 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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Hi JJJ, I'd be happy to share. Most important things first: things really got better for me once I went the route of G-SYNC - so you need to have an Nvidia card, ideally 8GB or more, and a G-SYNC monitor. Do you have those things?


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4471992 - 04/26/19 06:00 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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It seems I have finished yet before start :-(. I use NVIDIA GTX1060 6GB card, however without G-SYNC monitor. Thx for your help anyway.

#4472004 - 04/26/19 07:41 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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No worries JJJ. Yeah, the G-SYNC monitor was the critical piece, for me at least. I'd be happy to share my latest TrackIR settings if that's of any help, but you'd probably need to adjust the speed and smooth settings to match your setup. Just let me know and I can PM you a d/load link


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472075 - 04/27/19 06:26 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Yes,pls.
BTW, I still use your old TrackIR setup for WOFF.

#4472129 - 04/27/19 09:02 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Here's my latest TrackIR profile. 0.8 speed, 14 smooth. This is limited to make rear view more realistic but if you need to change the speed then you may need to tweak the x axis as well, because the rear view may become even more limited!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/icvdu0yozp7tnda/Leanback%20limitedHH.xml?dl=0

H


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472146 - 04/28/19 12:36 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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OK, for any G-SYNC monitor owners who are interested, I am posting my full Nvidia Inspector settings along with a Dropbox link for the profile file that I use in concert with the above TrackIR profile. At this point I'm done tweaking. WOFF is now simply amazing for me. Almost no stutters etc., as per my OP. With my latest tweaks I have also been able to virtually eliminate the flickering cloud edges (phew!). Flying in clouds is now an absolute joy except for the occasional popping which I can't find a complete cure for.


In addition I'm posting my in-game settings and my installed mods.

* I run the BT mod via JJJ's fantastic Mission Editor. For missions with < 50 planes I use max quality, and I drop down by one quality stage for each additional ~30 planes beyond that. I really hope this helps some G-SYNC owners get the best ever WOFF experience they've ever had., but of course, every system is different and your mileage may vary.

Cheers all, and anyone that tries it, let me know how it goes!

H

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j06e68svkv380dn/Combat%20Flight%20Simulator%203.nip?dl=0

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472147 - 04/28/19 12:39 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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[Linked Image]


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472153 - 04/28/19 06:08 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Thank you very much, HarryH. I will try it and let you know.

#4472218 - 04/29/19 04:49 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Harry,
I noticed from the screenshot of your JSGME mods that you only have part of the cloud mod enabled. Although the clouds folder contains my new clouds, to get them to display in the game, you need to enable both the cloud folder and ONE of the Fog option folders. Without one of the fog option folders, you will only see the default WOFF clouds.

#4472332 - 04/29/19 09:28 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Doh! Thanks for spotting that. I think I disabled both clouds and fog during my process of elimination / testing and forgot to re-enable one of them. I'll let you know if it makes a difference to performance. I hope not!

Cheers

H


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472337 - 04/29/19 10:11 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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OK, no appreciable difference in performance but possibly an increase in perceived cloud popping...I'll PM you if that's ok?

Meantime, having worked with KSnowbear on the stutter issues, I've reached the conclusion (as he already had) that stutters will probably never be totally eliminated. They are real and they are there. BUT I remain convinced the G-SYNC / V-SYNC half refresh rate setting makes a HUGE difference to their negative impact on the game. Thanks to running his test QC I've also discovered that disabling terrain bump mapping probably gives the most performance return for the least visual impact.

We can all spend way to much on hardware (and way too much time tweaking!), but the single best purchase I've made has definitely been this G-SYNC monitor smile

Cheers all. Happy Flying.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472356 - 04/30/19 12:28 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH:
If you ever notice, the biggest "stutter" come when the game loads new terrain or new squadrons.

A good check is to increase your terrain items and fly low over the terrain. The more the terrain items, the more the "stutters".

Flying low over any of the two southern fronts gives me more "stutters" then flying low over the two northern fronts because the two southern fronts have more trees that they have to account for than the two northern fronts.

As a result, until AnKor moves us up to DX11, I think we will continue to have some "stutters" when ever the game loads enough items to micro-pause the game.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472357 - 04/30/19 01:00 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4472359 - 04/30/19 01:16 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Most modern PC's do not have an APU (Audio Processing Unit) like years ago.

As a result, all sounds you hear in the game must be processed by your CPU which definitely impacts a game like CFS3 (WOFF) that is very, very CPU intensive and has to now allocate some of it's CPU cycles to process the sounds versus letting the APU do that work.

This is why I always still buy a sound card (that has a APU, since not all sound cards have an APU), so the sounds are processed by the APU and not the CPU and thus frees up the CPU for all the items it needs to process and minimize the extraneous "stutters" in the game.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472362 - 04/30/19 01:33 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4472372 - 04/30/19 02:49 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Thanks for contributing, PR & Fullofit. Good to have your thoughts.

First off, audio: I hope you will forgive me if I sound a little elitist here, but audio is my "thing". Not only that, I worked for Creative Labs for 11 years, and my team worked directly with games developers to make sure their games took full advantage of our Soundblaster hardware, which from the SB Live through to the X-Fi, all featured dedicated audio chips designed and developed fully in-house (I don't recall who manufactured them, but that's not really important). In fact, there's more chance that older games take advantage of audio hardware than newer games. Back in the beginning of 3D games, developers wanted every shred of advantage they could get and DirectSound 3D had a hardware abstraction layer (an "audio shader" if you will), so that cards like the Soundblaster could indeed offload certain audio processing tasks from the CPU. I could go a lot deeper on all that, but for the sake of this thread I'll just say that nowadays there's ample CPU and GPU resources to allow even the most complex of sound scenes to be rendered without dedicated audio hardware, and without impacting frame rates. I believe Microsoft abandoned the audio hardware path some years ago, so you can't do any audio acceleration on later versions of DirectX anyhow. As for CFS3's audio engine, I've always been really impressed with the attention to detail that OBD have put into their sounds and I think the game audio engine is delivering them just fine. I don't even know if it ever used the D3D hardware layer. I don't recall my guys working with the MS flight sim team back then, but that doesn't mean it didn't. We were focused mostly on FPS titles.

So, my guess is that the flak sprites are the culprit in your case, Fullofit. KS also showed me an example of a major stutter happening right at the same time cockpit damage effects occurred. Again, I suspect the graphics engine.

PR - Yes I know about the stutters when things are loading. As things stand, provided I don't set the terrain to max detail I get virtually no stutters flying low on any map. Things do get laggy when a whole bunch of AI missions are starting up together, later on in missions, but as you know, it's temporary. You just have to ride it out and hope you're not engaged with the enemy at the time smile

......After all of that.... do either of you have a G-SYNC monitor and if so, have you tried V-SYNC set to half refresh rate with game running at 144Hz? I really would like to know if anyone gets the boost that I did and no one seems to be trying it....

H


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472376 - 04/30/19 03:02 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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BTW, PR, your machine spec is rocking! You're definitely not getting any performance assist from your APU other than probably nicer audio quality, I promise smile

But you do have G-SYNC - you might get a nice surprise (or not) if you try the V-SYNC half refresh rate thing. It was you that put me onto G-SYNC plus V-SYNC in the first place! smile


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472380 - 04/30/19 03:14 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH
OK, no appreciable difference in performance but possibly an increase in perceived cloud popping...


Yeah, adding additional clouds doesn't seem to have any effect on frame rates or stuttering, but does tend to increase the cloud popping. The cloud popping is a direct result of adding more cloud textures to individual cloud types, probably due to the engine painting two cloud textures in the same physical space. The effect is therefore most pronounced for heavy cloud cover and for some of the heavier fair weather cumulus cloud types.

I could probably design a version of the mod with less popping, but that would require going through all of the heavy and cumulus cloud formations and deleting individual cloud textures one at a time, which would take a very long time to do. It would also probably make cloudy and rainy days much less cloudy.

Sorry I can't help you with the G-sync monitor. Maybe next Christmas. wink

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 04/30/19 04:24 AM. Reason: changed "models" to "textures"
#4472382 - 04/30/19 03:25 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Haha, I'll send Santa a note on your behalf smile

.OK that's what I thought I could see going on, thanks for explaining....but here's a different request: is there any way that you know of to eliminate the larger cloud models / types? Apart from making the sky a little more barren, any other negative impact in doing so, assuming it's even possible?


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472385 - 04/30/19 04:14 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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You can start to test your theories of stutter and cloud popping by process of elimination.

For cloud popping, try loading two large cloud models in the same space or close enough in a clear sky file and see if popping appears. Just to prove the theory that it is caused by two objects occupying the same space.

For Stutters, load an empty mission file without trees, buildings, or anything but the ground. Then begin to add groups of objects one at a time (all trees, then all buildings, etc..) and monitor the frame dips using a software program. This is to test which objects cause the stutters. If you can't remove/add objects, then you can also mimic the same effect to some degree by modifying the numbers in the compositescenerybudgets.xml file down to the lowest visible distance.

Takes time to make and run these tests, but may diagnose the cause/effect scenarios.

#4472387 - 04/30/19 04:31 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Sure, cloud formations that you don't like can be easily removed by deleting them from the Fog Option folder inside the mod. If you want, I can even upload a new fog option folder that doesn't contain some of the heavier cloud types. However, it will take me some time to identify exactly which cloud types produce the most popping. Two weeks??? wink

#4472388 - 04/30/19 04:35 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Personally, I like my heavy clouds--even with the popping--but I can see how it can be annoying to others. Also, I don't think it's possible to eliminate all cloud popping, even in the default WOFF clouds.

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 04/30/19 04:37 AM.
#4472393 - 04/30/19 05:46 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: OldHat]  
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Originally Posted by OldHat
You can start to test your theories of stutter and cloud popping by process of elimination.

For cloud popping, try loading two large cloud models in the same space or close enough in a clear sky file and see if popping appears. Just to prove the theory that it is caused by two objects occupying the same space.

For Stutters, load an empty mission file without trees, buildings, or anything but the ground. Then begin to add groups of objects one at a time (all trees, then all buildings, etc..) and monitor the frame dips using a software program. This is to test which objects cause the stutters. If you can't remove/add objects, then you can also mimic the same effect to some degree by modifying the numbers in the compositescenerybudgets.xml file down to the lowest visible distance.

Takes time to make and run these tests, but may diagnose the cause/effect scenarios.


Old Hat!!! Great to have you adding your knowledge here. I have not seen you around for quite a while. Thank you for this. Of course, I now have a bunch of follow up questions. I'll PM you tomorrow, but feel free to ignore me smile


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472394 - 04/30/19 05:48 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
Sure, cloud formations that you don't like can be easily removed by deleting them from the Fog Option folder inside the mod. If you want, I can even upload a new fog option folder that doesn't contain some of the heavier cloud types. However, it will take me some time to identify exactly which cloud types produce the most popping. Two weeks??? wink


That would be amazing, BB, thank you. I can wait as long as you need. The reason I want to eliminate larger cloud types is because they seem to be the only ones that are still giving me flat, flickering edges as I pass by....


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472395 - 04/30/19 06:00 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Fullofit]  
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Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.

#4472434 - 04/30/19 03:05 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH:
Just out of curiosity, when (DX wise) did M$ quit adding Audio Acceleration to the DirectX (7, 8, 9) packages ???


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472436 - 04/30/19 03:16 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
HarryH:
Just out of curiosity, when (DX wise) did M$ quit adding Audio Acceleration to the DirectX (7, 8, 9) packages ???

It was around the time of Vista. MS rewrote the audio stack and killed the hardware path. We (Creative) were not happy about that, as you can imagine. We mobilized a huge effort with games developers to switch their audio engines to OpenAL and we added our own driver support for OpenAL hardware acceleration on our soundcards. That worked really well for a while, but eventually host / software audio was "good enough" to get the job done. Today I do believe there's a hardware assist available through WASAPI (Windows 8 onward), but only for Windows Runtime apps.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472437 - 04/30/19 03:19 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Jara, I'd like to learn more about this preload.xml file. Can I PM you?

Thx


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472438 - 04/30/19 03:35 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH:
So what I hear you tell me is that DirectX 10 (released with Vista) does not have Audio Acceleration, but DirectX 8 & 9 (which CFS3 and WOFF still use in combination) needs an APU to use the DirectX Audio Acceleration.

If that is true, then CFS3 / WOFF (since it is an DX8/9 game) still needs the APU to stop the CPU from using some of it's precious cycles on sound versus what it needs in the game.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472443 - 04/30/19 03:59 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Jara, I'd like to learn more about this preload.xml file. Can I PM you?

Thx

Yes, of course.

#4472447 - 04/30/19 04:14 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH


......After all of that.... do either of you have a G-SYNC monitor and if so, have you tried V-SYNC set to half refresh rate with game running at 144Hz? I really would like to know if anyone gets the boost that I did and no one seems to be trying it....

H



HarryH, no G-sync. I’ll also have to ask Santa.
Now I’m even more confused about the audio acceleration.

Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Triple-J, wouldn’t it make more sense to increase the audio cache size (if such a thing exists) so that all the sounds are preloaded, instead of adding files one by one (if that is even possible)?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4472452 - 04/30/19 04:39 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
HarryH:
So what I hear you tell me is that DirectX 10 (released with Vista) does not have Audio Acceleration, but DirectX 8 & 9 (which CFS3 and WOFF still use in combination) needs an APU to use the DirectX Audio Acceleration.

If that is true, then CFS3 / WOFF (since it is an DX8/9 game) still needs the APU to stop the CPU from using some of it's precious cycles on sound versus what it needs in the game.


Not exactly. Depends on how the game developer architected the audio engine in the game. A game written to use DX8 or 9 with DirectSound could simply choose to play out stereo sound (host audio), but the hardware acceleration path came through DS3D, so the game would need to have a 3D audio engine built into it's code with a detection routine for capable hardware. I don't think we ever worked with the dev team for CFS3 so I don't know for certain how the audio in CFS3 was architected. If it was originally written to support DS3D, it won't abstract / offload to hardware any longer on Windows 10....

.... however, Creative was working on something called ALchemy - essentially a DS3D to OpenAL translator - around the time I left in 2007. Sooo, if you have a Soundblaster card that truly has a dedicated APU (some don't) AND you have an ALchemy-capable driver installed for it, it should offload the audio....PROVIDING the game was written to support it in the first place. One quick way to check might be to boot the original CFS3 and look in the settings menu at what audio options are there.... or we could ask OBD...? As you know, there are no 3D audio settings or audio hardware settings in the workshop. I do recall mention of DirectShow being used for the video pre-rolls. That's not DS3D.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472453 - 04/30/19 04:42 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Originally Posted by HarryH


......After all of that.... do either of you have a G-SYNC monitor and if so, have you tried V-SYNC set to half refresh rate with game running at 144Hz? I really would like to know if anyone gets the boost that I did and no one seems to be trying it....

H



HarryH, no G-sync. I’ll also have to ask Santa.
Now I’m even more confused about the audio acceleration.

Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Triple-J, wouldn’t it make more sense to increase the audio cache size (if such a thing exists) so that all the sounds are preloaded, instead of adding files one by one (if that is even possible)?


I highly doubt that audio is causing any problems, hardware acceleration or not.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472455 - 04/30/19 05:04 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by HarryH
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Jara, I'd like to learn more about this preload.xml file. Can I PM you?

Thx

Yes, of course.


Seems you are over your PM limit frown

Basically, what is the preload.xml? Why not load everything in there? smile


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472464 - 04/30/19 05:59 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Oh sorry, that is my usual problem. PM box cleaned.
Regarding preload.xml - we are limited by memory (although I do not know where these preloaded textures are stored, video or RAM). But, you can experiment and try to find what is enough and what is already over limit.

#4472481 - 04/30/19 07:53 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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This preload.xml file sounds intriguing. However, if curing stutters were simply a matter of preloading textures into a .xml file, OBD or Ankor likely would already have done that.

#4472485 - 04/30/19 08:43 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
This preload.xml file sounds intriguing. However, if curing stutters were simply a matter of preloading textures into a .xml file, OBD or Ankor likely would already have done that.


You'd think so, but you never know smile

I'm currently adding all the cloud.dds filenames to the preload.xml. I'll let you know what happens


our_readers


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472507 - 05/01/19 12:08 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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OK one mission flown using customized preload.xml with most of the cloud.dds files added.

57 min duration / 40 craft - 7 noticeable individual stutters ( avg. one every 8min)

Rest of the mission extremely smooth, consistent.

Cloud edge flickers minimal

Cloud popping minimal

Cloud blinking minimal

Using standard clouds w/ 40LM textures, no other cloud mods enabled.

I'm cautiously encouraged. Certainly didn't break anything (yet). Here's a link to the file if anyone cares to try it. Back up your old file first and copy this in place smile

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eGe4ZaKYw24a6TofBHgUNmYB3jEFCYWd


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472508 - 05/01/19 12:15 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
HarryH:
So what I hear you tell me is that DirectX 10 (released with Vista) does not have Audio Acceleration, but DirectX 8 & 9 (which CFS3 and WOFF still use in combination) needs an APU to use the DirectX Audio Acceleration.

If that is true, then CFS3 / WOFF (since it is an DX8/9 game) still needs the APU to stop the CPU from using some of it's precious cycles on sound versus what it needs in the game.


I ran the original CFS3.exe and the sound menu has no enable option for hardware audio. I also checked the release notes for the 3.1 patch and no mention of it there either. I did find this though smile

Performance
- Some algorithms for managing memory have been changed to reduce stutter.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472516 - 05/01/19 01:25 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH,

Does the audio processor in the MB qualify? https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-Z170X-Gaming-7-rev-10#ov
Creative Sound Core3D Quad-Core Audio Processor.

And yes I have Gsync and have been running WOFF at 85Hz refresh (Nvidia surround) instead of full 144Hz.
I have always thought I have had few stutters, if any, that were noticeable in WOFF.

I have been playing around in WOTR, running it at even less refresh and believe it helps there also.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

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#4472517 - 05/01/19 01:38 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Stache]  
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Excellent, thanks for the feedback Stache! I'll check out the mobo and get back to you...


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472519 - 05/01/19 01:55 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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....yes, it looks like it could work to offload audio for older games that used DS3D running on Win 10 (I don't think CFS3 did).


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472561 - 05/01/19 01:36 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH


I ran the original CFS3.exe and the sound menu has no enable option for hardware audio. I also checked the release notes for the 3.1 patch and no mention of it there either. I did find this though smile

Performance
- Some algorithms for managing memory have been changed to reduce stutter.


Hmm. Imagine that. Stutter, all the way back to CFS3. Is there an echo in here?

(BTW this is not the only place I've seen this mentioned; also in this review, from back when: http://www.combatsim.com/memb123/htm/2002/11/cfs3-rev/ "I noticed some stutters here and there when around densely populated cities. These stutters were worse in the beta, but I didn't mention it because I thought they would get fixed by release. I guess they didn't, as this game has a tendency to bring my 1GHz Athlon, Radeon 8500 128, machine equipped with 768 megs of RAM to a crawl sometimes. I'm hoping its just my machine, but I don't really see these problems with other games. And yes, all my drivers are up to date within two weeks." )

Sounds familiar.

To be accurate, there hasn't been a 'cure' for the stutter yet, and I'm not convinced there will be (and that includes if AnKor does make Dx11 work, IMHO). I would be absolutely thrilled to be proven wrong about this, mind you.

Also, nice to have someone with actual industry experience (thanks, HarryH) give some insight to further debunk the ongoing myth about on-board sound. I think it's pretty well accepted that this hasn't been an issue for many years now, and it seems to be corroborated by experiences like Fullofit described. I build quite a few gaming machines for others, and I haven't put a sound card in one in decades, nor had any requests (or even an inquiry) about doing it.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 05/01/19 01:42 PM.
#4472607 - 05/01/19 08:08 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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and for the best quality, crisp and natural sound... the way it was intended to be heard..... I'd recommend good stereo headphones with an amplifier connected to a digital to analog audio converter (DAC). No sound card will beat it in sound quality either then or now.

#4472612 - 05/01/19 08:33 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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As someone with a good pair of headphones but without any stereo knowledge, what is a DAC and how would I use it? Is it a separate piece of equipment or is it a sound card?

#4472613 - 05/01/19 08:40 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Best place to start would be www.head-fi.org and www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/digital-audio-converters-dacs.10/

search the forums. You'll get much better advice and explanation there. It can get to be an expensive hobby..... talking about from a few hundred dollars to several thousand.... so it's best to do a LOT of research on this subject before you think of investing.

#4472615 - 05/01/19 08:52 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: OldHat]  
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Originally Posted by OldHat
Best place to start would be www.head-fi.org and www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/digital-audio-converters-dacs.10/

search the forums. You'll get much better advice and explanation there. It can get to be an expensive hobby..... talking about from a few hundred dollars to several thousand.... so it's best to do a LOT of research on this subject before you think of investing.


Seconded. I use a pair of Sennheiser 565s connected to a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. Not ridiculously expensive. Sounds fab with WOFF.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472616 - 05/01/19 08:52 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Thanks, OldHat. I'll probably just stick to my headphones, for now.

#4475077 - 05/22/19 07:02 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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One more note to add re G-SYNC optimization. Further improvement in smoothness found by ensuring that Scaling is switched on and set to Aspect Ratio using the GPU, AND checking the "override the scaling mode set by games and programs".

This of course in addition to running WOFF UE at 2560x1440 at a refresh rate of 144Hz, with V-SYNC set to half refresh rate (yielding a constant 72FPS in-game with zero tearing)


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
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