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#4472382 - 04/30/19 03:25 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Haha, I'll send Santa a note on your behalf smile

.OK that's what I thought I could see going on, thanks for explaining....but here's a different request: is there any way that you know of to eliminate the larger cloud models / types? Apart from making the sky a little more barren, any other negative impact in doing so, assuming it's even possible?


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472385 - 04/30/19 04:14 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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You can start to test your theories of stutter and cloud popping by process of elimination.

For cloud popping, try loading two large cloud models in the same space or close enough in a clear sky file and see if popping appears. Just to prove the theory that it is caused by two objects occupying the same space.

For Stutters, load an empty mission file without trees, buildings, or anything but the ground. Then begin to add groups of objects one at a time (all trees, then all buildings, etc..) and monitor the frame dips using a software program. This is to test which objects cause the stutters. If you can't remove/add objects, then you can also mimic the same effect to some degree by modifying the numbers in the compositescenerybudgets.xml file down to the lowest visible distance.

Takes time to make and run these tests, but may diagnose the cause/effect scenarios.

#4472387 - 04/30/19 04:31 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Sure, cloud formations that you don't like can be easily removed by deleting them from the Fog Option folder inside the mod. If you want, I can even upload a new fog option folder that doesn't contain some of the heavier cloud types. However, it will take me some time to identify exactly which cloud types produce the most popping. Two weeks??? wink

#4472388 - 04/30/19 04:35 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Personally, I like my heavy clouds--even with the popping--but I can see how it can be annoying to others. Also, I don't think it's possible to eliminate all cloud popping, even in the default WOFF clouds.

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 04/30/19 04:37 AM.
#4472393 - 04/30/19 05:46 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: OldHat]  
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Originally Posted by OldHat
You can start to test your theories of stutter and cloud popping by process of elimination.

For cloud popping, try loading two large cloud models in the same space or close enough in a clear sky file and see if popping appears. Just to prove the theory that it is caused by two objects occupying the same space.

For Stutters, load an empty mission file without trees, buildings, or anything but the ground. Then begin to add groups of objects one at a time (all trees, then all buildings, etc..) and monitor the frame dips using a software program. This is to test which objects cause the stutters. If you can't remove/add objects, then you can also mimic the same effect to some degree by modifying the numbers in the compositescenerybudgets.xml file down to the lowest visible distance.

Takes time to make and run these tests, but may diagnose the cause/effect scenarios.


Old Hat!!! Great to have you adding your knowledge here. I have not seen you around for quite a while. Thank you for this. Of course, I now have a bunch of follow up questions. I'll PM you tomorrow, but feel free to ignore me smile


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472394 - 04/30/19 05:48 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
Sure, cloud formations that you don't like can be easily removed by deleting them from the Fog Option folder inside the mod. If you want, I can even upload a new fog option folder that doesn't contain some of the heavier cloud types. However, it will take me some time to identify exactly which cloud types produce the most popping. Two weeks??? wink


That would be amazing, BB, thank you. I can wait as long as you need. The reason I want to eliminate larger cloud types is because they seem to be the only ones that are still giving me flat, flickering edges as I pass by....


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472395 - 04/30/19 06:00 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Fullofit]  
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Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.

#4472434 - 04/30/19 03:05 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH:
Just out of curiosity, when (DX wise) did M$ quit adding Audio Acceleration to the DirectX (7, 8, 9) packages ???


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472436 - 04/30/19 03:16 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
HarryH:
Just out of curiosity, when (DX wise) did M$ quit adding Audio Acceleration to the DirectX (7, 8, 9) packages ???

It was around the time of Vista. MS rewrote the audio stack and killed the hardware path. We (Creative) were not happy about that, as you can imagine. We mobilized a huge effort with games developers to switch their audio engines to OpenAL and we added our own driver support for OpenAL hardware acceleration on our soundcards. That worked really well for a while, but eventually host / software audio was "good enough" to get the job done. Today I do believe there's a hardware assist available through WASAPI (Windows 8 onward), but only for Windows Runtime apps.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472437 - 04/30/19 03:19 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Jara, I'd like to learn more about this preload.xml file. Can I PM you?

Thx


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472438 - 04/30/19 03:35 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Panama Red Online content
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HarryH:
So what I hear you tell me is that DirectX 10 (released with Vista) does not have Audio Acceleration, but DirectX 8 & 9 (which CFS3 and WOFF still use in combination) needs an APU to use the DirectX Audio Acceleration.

If that is true, then CFS3 / WOFF (since it is an DX8/9 game) still needs the APU to stop the CPU from using some of it's precious cycles on sound versus what it needs in the game.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472443 - 04/30/19 03:59 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Jara, I'd like to learn more about this preload.xml file. Can I PM you?

Thx

Yes, of course.

#4472447 - 04/30/19 04:14 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH


......After all of that.... do either of you have a G-SYNC monitor and if so, have you tried V-SYNC set to half refresh rate with game running at 144Hz? I really would like to know if anyone gets the boost that I did and no one seems to be trying it....

H



HarryH, no G-sync. I’ll also have to ask Santa.
Now I’m even more confused about the audio acceleration.

Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Triple-J, wouldn’t it make more sense to increase the audio cache size (if such a thing exists) so that all the sounds are preloaded, instead of adding files one by one (if that is even possible)?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4472452 - 04/30/19 04:39 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
HarryH:
So what I hear you tell me is that DirectX 10 (released with Vista) does not have Audio Acceleration, but DirectX 8 & 9 (which CFS3 and WOFF still use in combination) needs an APU to use the DirectX Audio Acceleration.

If that is true, then CFS3 / WOFF (since it is an DX8/9 game) still needs the APU to stop the CPU from using some of it's precious cycles on sound versus what it needs in the game.


Not exactly. Depends on how the game developer architected the audio engine in the game. A game written to use DX8 or 9 with DirectSound could simply choose to play out stereo sound (host audio), but the hardware acceleration path came through DS3D, so the game would need to have a 3D audio engine built into it's code with a detection routine for capable hardware. I don't think we ever worked with the dev team for CFS3 so I don't know for certain how the audio in CFS3 was architected. If it was originally written to support DS3D, it won't abstract / offload to hardware any longer on Windows 10....

.... however, Creative was working on something called ALchemy - essentially a DS3D to OpenAL translator - around the time I left in 2007. Sooo, if you have a Soundblaster card that truly has a dedicated APU (some don't) AND you have an ALchemy-capable driver installed for it, it should offload the audio....PROVIDING the game was written to support it in the first place. One quick way to check might be to boot the original CFS3 and look in the settings menu at what audio options are there.... or we could ask OBD...? As you know, there are no 3D audio settings or audio hardware settings in the workshop. I do recall mention of DirectShow being used for the video pre-rolls. That's not DS3D.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472453 - 04/30/19 04:42 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Originally Posted by HarryH


......After all of that.... do either of you have a G-SYNC monitor and if so, have you tried V-SYNC set to half refresh rate with game running at 144Hz? I really would like to know if anyone gets the boost that I did and no one seems to be trying it....

H



HarryH, no G-sync. I’ll also have to ask Santa.
Now I’m even more confused about the audio acceleration.

Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Triple-J, wouldn’t it make more sense to increase the audio cache size (if such a thing exists) so that all the sounds are preloaded, instead of adding files one by one (if that is even possible)?


I highly doubt that audio is causing any problems, hardware acceleration or not.


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472455 - 04/30/19 05:04 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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HarryH Offline
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by HarryH
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Interesting discussion.
Originally Posted by Fullofit
I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?

Originally Posted by Fullofit
That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?

To experiment with, you can locate "preload.xml" file and add missing texture files to eliminate stutters caused by texture effects loading. But, I think, that is not applicable to sound samples caching, because I can se only *.dds files there.


Jara, I'd like to learn more about this preload.xml file. Can I PM you?

Thx

Yes, of course.


Seems you are over your PM limit frown

Basically, what is the preload.xml? Why not load everything in there? smile


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472464 - 04/30/19 05:59 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Oh sorry, that is my usual problem. PM box cleaned.
Regarding preload.xml - we are limited by memory (although I do not know where these preloaded textures are stored, video or RAM). But, you can experiment and try to find what is enough and what is already over limit.

#4472481 - 04/30/19 07:53 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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This preload.xml file sounds intriguing. However, if curing stutters were simply a matter of preloading textures into a .xml file, OBD or Ankor likely would already have done that.

#4472485 - 04/30/19 08:43 PM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
This preload.xml file sounds intriguing. However, if curing stutters were simply a matter of preloading textures into a .xml file, OBD or Ankor likely would already have done that.


You'd think so, but you never know smile

I'm currently adding all the cloud.dds filenames to the preload.xml. I'll let you know what happens


our_readers


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4472507 - 05/01/19 12:08 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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OK one mission flown using customized preload.xml with most of the cloud.dds files added.

57 min duration / 40 craft - 7 noticeable individual stutters ( avg. one every 8min)

Rest of the mission extremely smooth, consistent.

Cloud edge flickers minimal

Cloud popping minimal

Cloud blinking minimal

Using standard clouds w/ 40LM textures, no other cloud mods enabled.

I'm cautiously encouraged. Certainly didn't break anything (yet). Here's a link to the file if anyone cares to try it. Back up your old file first and copy this in place smile

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eGe4ZaKYw24a6TofBHgUNmYB3jEFCYWd


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
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