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#4470509 - 04/15/19 01:31 PM Courier build  
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Lately I've been giving more attention to my Courier. It's one of my favorite ships to fly, but other ships have been getting the engineering love.

My goals for this build

-- Very fast. I want boost speed of 800 or close to it

-- Good shields. At least 600 mj if possible. Resistances are important, but I'm finding it hard to get it all

-- Armed. I want to use it for bounty hunting. It is immense fun to fly a super-fast ship in a RES

It's a tricky build. In order to get those sorts of speeds, Enhanced Performance Thrusters are required. When combined with Dirty Drives the optimal mass is reduced significantly. That in turn makes it hard to use the weapons, modules and utilities I need to meet requirements 2 and 3, shields and weapons. Ain't no free lunch as they say.

Here's Velocity as she sits now

Velocity


It's fast, but without weapons. At G4 Dirty Drags, optimal mass is 81t. To get the most speed out of it I need to keep combat weight below that. Class 2 weapons weigh 4t apiece. G5 lightweight would reduce weight of the weapons by 90%, so drop from 12t to 1.2t for three. That's workable if I can shed weight elsewhere. I can unlock Lori Jameson and shed some weight off the Life support but that won't even be half a ton. The other thing I can do is go another class lower on the power plant. It's 3A now, I could go 2A and save an additional 1.2t (exactly matching the added weight from three G5 lightweight weapons), but it would require overcharging to at least G3, which means more heat. I can live with it if can be kept to around 35% heat.

The other issue that presents is using lightweight mods on weapons costs integrity, and the opportunity cost in the mods not chosen. No overcharge, no efficient. So the weapons would be plain Jane and sorta weak as a result. I have yet to decide which types of weapons I will use. Three beams would be nice, but without efficient modification they are less appealing.

Here is the same ship but with the engineering taken to higher levels

Velocity Mock Up


DPS is just 37.5. Not going to kill much, but can get my shots in for claims anyway. But this meets the speed goal, and the shield megajoules goal at 600+. Thermal resist is quite low. But honestly with 800+ boost it won't get hit much right?

Power Plant was switched to 2A to save weight. Lightweight was done to the Life Support. Shields and booster were done to G5. Eventually I can G5 heavy duty the bulkheads, though that doesn't add up to much. This is a ship where if the shields fall, you're mostly dead.

Any thoughts from the folks here? If you're bored, build your ideal fast battle Courier at Coriolis and post it. Might give me some new ideas.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4470543 - 04/15/19 05:05 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Mosquito build here https://s.orbis.zone/2sgz . Love the view. Just not enough DSPS for me. Guess I'm too jaded by MR Skittles ability to remove opposition.


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#4470546 - 04/15/19 05:24 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks Wingy, interesting to see your build, thanks for posting it.

Your Courier hits so much harder. Those weapons combine to weigh 13t and I can't do anything like that if high speed is my goal. Comparing the builds at least makes me think I am on the right track.



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#4470562 - 04/15/19 06:57 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Got a tip at the Frontier forum to switch the Drags to Drive Distributors. That increases optimal mass by 10% and means it will boost about 50 m/s faster. That's awesome! I have the mats and will make that switch tonight.


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#4470588 - 04/15/19 09:20 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Imperial ships are so sexy, good luck with your build! I hope it flies as good as it looks!


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#4470610 - 04/15/19 11:34 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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I agree with that! And the inverse is true as well. Fed ships be fugly.

This Courier is going to be wicked fast. By the time I am done it should boost to about 850 and four-pip cruise at 620. It's a dangerous ship to fly. Not only are the shields vulnerable to thermal weapons, there is virtually no hull at all. Even if I G5 heavy-duty the bulkheads, I'll have about 200 integrity. That's like stock Dolphin integrity. In combat it's a liability perhaps, but against NPCs I am not expecting too much trouble. As long as I don't fall asleep at the wheel I can just skedaddle if things are going badly. No, I think it's dangerous because I stand a much higher chance of smashing in to something at really high speed. I think that's the real danger in this ship I am building. Especially asteroids and other ships in a RES.

I can see it already. Take some hits, shields drop a little. Boost to go off and recharge them and wham! straight in to an asteroid and to the rebuy screen. This vision is maybe a little too clear haha smile

This ship is a 10m build so rebuy is nothing. But I have only four rebuys in Elite and wish to keep it right there. Tempting fate, I am.

But it's really fast and that's a lot of fun.



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#4470618 - 04/16/19 12:01 AM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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My days of playing Eve have insulated me from feeling ship loss - ships are disposable, esp with the rebuy.


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#4470627 - 04/16/19 12:32 AM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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That's probably a better way to go about it smile

If I ever clear my account, or get a second one, neither of which I anticipate, I think I would play it ironman. In PvE of course. Actually, I haven't flown in Open since I came back a month ago. I'm getting off course.

My four rebuys were three early ones, as I was learning the game, and two of them in the Eagle, which I loved to fly, but just couldn't survive in properly. The fourth one was in a T-9 last Spring soon after buying it. This was before Void Opals and I thought I could get to Trade Elite faster with one of those pigs. I can't recall the details, but I posted here about it and my conclusion was I chose the one course of action that could lead to my destruction. I still blamed the ship and sold it after one week.


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#4470677 - 04/16/19 11:52 AM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Flew back to Deciat last night and changed the thrusters to drive distributors, which sent me well over 800 m/s boost. Four-pip cruise is 600. That's unarmed though.

I had an overcharged 2A power plant in storage, so made that swap and added thermal spread to it. Lightweighted the life support after unlocking Lori Jameson and made a few other small mass-saving upgrades. It's getting there. This ship cruises faster than any of my other ships boost smile


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#4470910 - 04/17/19 06:58 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Velocity continues to move forward. Little things here and there, but a ways to go yet, especially as I have so few mats needed to complete G5 mods. In the interim, I can live vicariously through the folks replying to my thread at Frontier forum. These Couriers are amazing with a capital Z! smile

Seriously, these builds have opened my eyes. The Courier isn't popular here, just Wingy and I have one? But check 'em out

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/fast-battle-courier.508740/

Lots of very impressive builds, and as I said in that thread, I'm glad I started it and saw what's possible, because I wouldn't have come anywhere near these builds if I had been left to my own devices. An amazing ship she is.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4471305 - 04/20/19 11:43 AM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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This project continues apace.

Velocity Mid-build

Look at that speed smile They say 861 m/s boost is theoretical maximum, so not too far off that. However, it will only get heavier and I will lose some of it.

I was very concerned about the thermal resist being so low using a Reinforced 2A shield. I reasoned that the weapons I most need to be concerned about are laser variants, as they have no shot speed, or infinite shot speed, whatever. But I reckon these are the weapons most likely to ht my ultra-fast whip. Explosive and kinetic were good, but thermal was very low. So I put that generator in the boneyard and bought another 2A, and put Thermal Resist on it. That goes a long way toward fixing that issue, and as a bonus, Thermal Resist engineering give a healthy boost to integrity, which is quite useful I think.

Before it's done I will sort out the shield boosters, and get my resists up across the board through Resistance Augmented with the goal of hitting 60% for all three. May not quite get there, but should be close. So in the main, I swapped pure mj for resistances, but I think that's the right choice here. Probably drop the wake scanner too.

The 2A power plant was swapped out for a 3A from the boneyard. Once everything is done and I see the final power needs, I can finalize this.

Weapons are not sorted. I can't make up my mind. I had two G5 lightweight gimballed C2 multicannons in the boneyard, one with autoloader and one with nothing. Put those in the wingtip hardpoints. The original plan was to go with two incendiary MCs for shields, and one corrosive MC in the center hardpoint. That hardpoint still sits empty because I want to try something a bit more exotic in the center spot. The plan is to put a fixed frag cannon there. Lightweight for certain. Oversized? What experimental? Would you believe I have never used a frag cannon before? Seems like fun. I don't have the right engineer unlocked yet (more rares uggg!) but will get around to that shortly.

If I do though I would have no corrosive, unless I put it on the frag, or on one of the outboard MCs. Weapon mod possibilities are pulling me in too many directions. Suggestions welcome.

Hull integrity is a joke. I am going to install some 1D HRPs, which is going to kill some of that speed. But I can't fly it in combat with 161 integrity and poor armor hardness. These will go in the empty/cargo slots. Bulkheads will be G5 HD, and this will all add up to around 400 or so. Low, but better than it is now!

There is still a ways to go. Few things are fully engineered, thrusters included. So more speed can be squeezed out of them. Just gotta get the mats.

If you look at the builds in the thread I linked to above, it's clear all have some sort of design hole. In order to get a theoretical maximum speed ship, you're going to trade jump range or something else. My build will trade speed. If I can keep 4-pip cruise over 600 and boost over 800 I will be happy. It will retain the good jump. It two-pips at 570, which matches the fastest boost speed of any of my other ships (FDL). But shields, firepower, speed and integrity will all be less than possible. A bit of an all-rounder.

This is the most interesting build I've done. Looking forward to flying it in combat duel





Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4471329 - 04/20/19 06:08 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Something like this; https://s.orbis.zone/2u7o . Put the Frag on the centerline and MC on wing tips. Synth reloads (standard) for 15% boost to the Frag. That'll increase Frag DPS by 22.2 totaling 169.7 for a grand total DPS of 195.7. Oh and your still at 834.


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#4471331 - 04/20/19 06:17 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks Wingnuts. The way you did it I have no thermal attack. Will it struggle against well-shielded ships?

Frags are fun right? You seem to like 'em smile

Thing is I want to choose right first time so I don't waste any engineering mats and effort.


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#4471347 - 04/20/19 11:37 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Frags is what I use to take down shields. Come to think everything else as well.

Experimentation is necessary I'm afraid. You need to find out what works for your attack style and tolerance. When I tried mine it took a long time to make kills, which is why I favor Mr Skittles build. Frags come with a magazine of 3 for each gun. I volley all three in each pass. Reload and repeat if target is still in range (300-600m). You'll be scooting by pretty darn quickly. So, perhaps energy is the way for your build?

Good luck with it though!


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#4471352 - 04/21/19 01:11 AM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Originally I thought I would go with beams. But then I thought about how I want to fly this ship, using it's insane speed, and how beams, or any lasers would have poor synergy due to the early falloff. In order to keep hitting those insane speeds I have to lightweight the weapons, so no long range or similar mods. Short effective range combined with high closing speeds seemed a poor choice. So that got me thinking kinetic, since falloff is 1800m I think, with range of 4 km. I felt like it would be better suited to the build for that reason. I wish I had some lightweight beams to try out. It's enough mat gathering doing this build already.

Plus, using kinetic weapons has far less power and distributor draw. Can't use efficient for lasers (to keep power and distributor low) because of mass and keep the high speed. Lower heat, more pip flexibility, and the knock on effect of having more for the rest of the ship like boosters or lower power plant requirement.

If frags are effective against shields it will be OK. Most of the builds I've seen using frags choose Oversized, and you did too Wingy. That means about +4 DPS which is more, but not that much really. But probably the best considering the other choices. Experimental effects are not too costly mats wise, but ya gotta fly to the #%&*$# engineer base. If not for that I could easily experiment. Fixed frags yield an additional 30 DPS which is significant, but the slow shot speed and this ship's high speed make me think I need to go gimballed. I have to unlock the G5 frag dude first anyway. I'm going to log in and work on it some more, maybe get the rares I need to unlock him while I am at it. I need to do the armor, HRPs, shield boosters and the final hardpoint before I will fight with it.

How many 3-shot mags before you need to make more?


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#4471423 - 04/21/19 07:21 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Frags; total ammo is 180 That'll give 60 volleys'. Keep in mind you need to fire 600m - 300m. Any farther and skittles will disperse too far and many will miss.

Have you given thought to Canon or Rail Gun. Lite weight oversized mounted on the centerline could work.


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#4471426 - 04/21/19 08:08 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, considered both of those weapons. Rails are appealing, but they pull more power and to mount them I'd need to either make the 2A PP hotter with another level of overcharge or go back to 3A which kills my speed. Plus there are no gimballed rails right? Cannon might be a good option, but I've just spent my lightweight mats again smile

I spent some more time on this ship today and it's come a long way. I still lack the mats to get everything done. But it now sports decent integrity, shield strength and resistances while keeping above the 600/800 speed thresholds I am gunning for.

It has the G5 lightweight frag cannon now. I flew it in combat and it handles just like I want it to. It's amazingly fast and agile. I have corrosive and incendiary on the two multis, and oversized on the frag. I was killing ships, but I don't like it's one v one ability. If I use it's high speed, it's hard to do much damage. If I turn it in to a knife fight, the shields won't stand up too long. The frags have to be fired in tight like Wingy just mentioned so if using the high speed it's just snapshots, not sitting there pounding the target with repeated volleys. And that high speed carries you away to turn around and come back, giving the target a little time to recharge, slowing it all down.

However, in any RES other than haz or in a CZ it's going to be really good. Insane acceleration and high end means I can be gone in a blink, or close the target at will and dictate terms. Having allied NPCs means slashing attacks are viable. Don't have to kill it all by myself, which is when this build seems weak.

I still have to sort/finish the boosters, ran out of mats. And the PD is just G3. Resistances are much better and more balanced than before I re-did the shields from Reinforced to Thermal Resist. Resistances will be around 60% when the boosters are done. Not sure that's the best I can get.

I still have an unused C3 optional (HRP, MRP, Guardian module?), and an unused utility (chaff? another booster?). I need to shed mass to add mass at this point.

Here's the build at this stage. Just awesome to fly in Elite. Fantastic cockpit, great view, insane speed and excellent agility. In the Frontier forum thread, most players that replied with builds had opted to make their ship as fast as it could be, around or at the 861 limit. But that meant sacrifices elsewhere, either in integrity, shields, jump range or lack of a scoop. My Courier trades some of that speed to get 34 jump while having pretty good shields and integrity and still having a scoop.

Velocity Late Build



Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4471460 - 04/22/19 12:28 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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Distinct lack of oohs and ahhs smile

Somebody turn the lights out or something around here?


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4471477 - 04/22/19 03:04 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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My combat style is face tank incoming fire and melt ‘em with 6 beams. Any comments I’d make would be talkin out my ass regarding the speed racer you’re building. It does look like you’ve mostly sorted it out except the weapons. Don’t know how you’re going to get around the “time on target” issue I can foresee. Lasers for shields and torps or missiles for hull?

#4471479 - 04/22/19 03:20 PM Re: Courier build [Re: DBond]  
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I was just fishin' for comments.Forum dried up.

It's a crazy sort of build that makes me smile when I fly it. It has issues yes, but everyone should try a ship that goes as fast as this one does.

More than any other ship I have, this one is at the edge, meaning any change, even a small one, has a knock-on effect throughout the build. Power, mass, heat, distributor draw, speed and more are all affected and have to be accounted for as there is little margin.

It's like a knife in a gunfight, but as I've always said, I love fast ships.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
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