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#4454162 - 12/21/18 05:37 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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As this journey progresses, we must 1st look back where it all began. The beginnings held some hope inspiration into the unknown and what lies beneath to where it ended up. This was a catastrophic disaster on all fronts.
Watch as the blame shifts back and forth between everyone who was associated with this failed venture yet absolutely no apologies for the damage done, not only to ED as a business, but broken promises to it's member's, consumers and shareholders.
Let's look at this thread as a 'study thread' DCS was palmed off as a study sim so let me use this thread as an in depth study in the failings of what has taken place over the last decade of development for a single module.

[Linked Image]


From that, we can gather that VEAO set in motion a plan, at that stage very early on, this plan was not a thwarted by the infighting or the inexperience of these mod makers who had absolutely no working knowledge of the DCS code structure.
It began with a statement of what VEAO had pipe dreams of. Previous skill sets included a cut of the hawk drawn in microsoft paint and pasted over an su25 in Lock-On.

The OP began to build hype and momentum within the DCS forums with the fanbois squealing like pigs "take my money" before anyone stopped to think "are they actually capable of releasing anything on par with the A-10C" (cue Winfield)
To add another diesel engine to the hype train, Chris mentioned the work he had done with the typhoon and the RL pilots who used it for a recruitment tool. it's safe to say that the "beers flowed that night" as Chris presented his sales pitch
on what the consumer could expect in terms of a quality DCS product.

However, to quote Chris
Originally Posted by Chris Ells
As other development teams have mentioned, DCS is a big learning curve for all of us. However, the VEAO ethos is to always share what we have learnt to allow others to create and I have spoken briefly to other teams about knowledge sharing to allow development paths to be aligned rather than going out and all finding the same things by ourselves.


This to me stood out as though it was an uber driver on Linkden networking with other Uber driver's on the ride share app more than it stood out as a company who knew what they were doing from the getup.

During the early stages of this study thread, I believe it will be beneficial to put forth and draw comparisons between a ponzi scheme and VEAO, it will add merit as to what took place on that fateful day at Nando's all those years ago.

***on a side note, could someone please explain to me why Ells and his minions still have "3rd party developer" under their avatar at the official ED forums??*** I would ask myself but as you all know....I was removed from the forums for this very thread.



Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4454166 - 12/21/18 07:59 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Way over in Perth, Western Aus...
Originally Posted by Winfield
"are they actually capable of releasing anything on par with the A-10C"

Best modules ever released for DCS: A-10C, Ka-50 and Su-25T...


mdwa
#4454169 - 12/21/18 08:27 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: mdwa]  
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Originally Posted by mdwa
Originally Posted by Winfield
"are they actually capable of releasing anything on par with the A-10C"

Best modules ever released for DCS: A-10C, Ka-50 and Su-25T...


agreed, I began with the A-10C, moved on to the KA-50 and ran a few multiplayer missions with the SU-25. absolutely the pick of the bunch thus far. mind you,

#4454171 - 12/21/18 08:51 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Let's just hope these thieving incompetent criminals never return under yet another new name. It wouldn't have been so bad if they had genuinely struggled and ultimately collapsed under the weight......what they did (and Ells specifically) was lie to the customers throughout the entire abortion of the project and take people's money under the 'early access' banner without any remorse knowing full well they could never get anywhere near their claims.



On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4454176 - 12/21/18 09:46 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
Let's just hope these thieving incompetent criminals never return under yet another new name. It wouldn't have been so bad if they had genuinely struggled and ultimately collapsed under the weight......what they did (and Ells specifically) was lie to the customers throughout the entire abortion of the project and take people's money under the 'early access' banner without any remorse knowing full well they could never get anywhere near their claims.



They registered Blue Sky Simulations when the whole 2.0\5 saga took place. The hawk was on hold for years while the wheels churned behind the scene while they copied and pasted the flop into Dovetail's Flight Sim World.....quite fitting for VEAO\Blue Sky as FSW folded. Luckily I purchased Dovetails Flight School for $5 on sale and received the free update to FSW. even now they are asking $30 AUD for a venture that pulled the pin, that venture being FSW. Like VEAO, showed a lot of promise in the beginning......


#4454178 - 12/21/18 10:12 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
Let's just hope these thieving incompetent criminals never return under yet another new name. It wouldn't have been so bad if they had genuinely struggled and ultimately collapsed under the weight......what they did (and Ells specifically) was lie to the customers throughout the entire abortion of the project and take people's money under the 'early access' banner without any remorse knowing full well they could never get anywhere near their claims.



Hope again ..............

http://porrimasimulations.co.uk/about/



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4454180 - 12/21/18 10:34 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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I'm aware of that one.....I hope they update their information because one of the claims in the 'about' section is;

Quote
As VEAO Simulations developed their portfolio further it became clear that its high-quality products .....


It wouldn't surprise me if they create yet another business name just to try and hide away from this utter calamity, I would trust Chris Ellis half as far as I could throw him


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4454184 - 12/21/18 11:30 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
I'm aware of that one.....I hope they update their information because one of the claims in the 'about' section is;

Quote
As VEAO Simulations developed their portfolio further it became clear that its high-quality products .....


It wouldn't surprise me if they create yet another business name just to try and hide away from this utter calamity, I would trust Chris Ellis half as far as I could throw him


Ponzi scheme....that's exactly what this bunch of jokers are. With every new registered business.....the more I will draw inspiration to this very thread

#4454186 - 12/21/18 11:36 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Originally Posted by leaf_on_the_wind
Hope again ..............

http://porrimasimulations.co.uk/about/


That link has been doing the rounds for a while......
You beat me to posting it. I was actually planning on mentioning it when I begin the comparison of a ponzi scheme.and this unmitigated disaster that later became known as VEAO

#4454192 - 12/21/18 12:11 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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From the spoiler post a couple of post above this, VEAO have put forth an opening argument to the sim community that they have some knowledge of how to create a "free module" with vast experience driving uber's.....

Yet have a crack at this only a week or so on from the opening statement voicing the creation of the newly formed VEAO company to the sim community....

[Linked Image] .

in a matter of 8 days, Chris went from a professional blue collar to a hi-vis council worker in less than a fortnight.....and to be honest, it stayed there.




#4454209 - 12/21/18 02:16 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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VEAO had 'IT Issues' for well over 7 years.

There is a TV show in the UK called 'Rogue Traders' usually featuring cowboy builders etc. I'll keep a look out as I half-expect VEAO to feature on there some time in the near future.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4454236 - 12/21/18 05:03 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: mdwa]  
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Originally Posted by mdwa
Originally Posted by Winfield
"are they actually capable of releasing anything on par with the A-10C"

Best modules ever released for DCS: A-10C, Ka-50 and Su-25T...

The MiG-15 is excellent as well smile

And to voice something different:

The VEAO bashing is going a bit too far. You can call them out whatever you like for not delivering the goods, but in no way can you call them criminals. They had good intentions all around, but just failed to deliver the goods because they didn’t have the skillset necessary for making a module

. Don’t forget: You lost a bottle of scotch, they lost their livelyhoods.

And now the pitchfork internet crowd does everything in their power from ensuring they never have a job in the industry again? Come on now. How would you feel if your company just went bankrupt and you have a wife and children to support? And this all because they bought exactly this risk when buying Early Access: you pay 100% of the money, with 0% insurance of completion. (The same with all that Kickstarter folk, why in hell would you invest in something if you get no money in return? That is about the stupidest thing you can do)

As for the P-40: I have no idea what on earth people possess to pre-order stuff, since you’re risking exactly this kind of thing. I can understand buying the Hawk in Early Access, since in DCS everything is always “just about finished” right up until it gets abandoned for whatever grabs Rollin’ Matt and Packager Norm’s attention span. But with the P-40? You knew what you signed up for.

Don’t forget

#4454237 - 12/21/18 05:16 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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They outright lied from start to finish....simple as. It's not just a case of not having the necessary skillset.

As for the P40, it's hardly a case of people knowing what they signed up for at all.


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4454241 - 12/21/18 05:33 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted by Vaderini



. Don’t forget: You lost a bottle of scotch, they lost their livelyhoods.


No they did not. VEAO did not have any full time employees. They were, at best, hobbyists. Chris might have lost his ass due to his investments in the company but the rest lost nothing more than a bit of extra income.


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#4454275 - 12/21/18 08:54 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: cichlidfan]  
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Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Originally Posted by Vaderini



. Don’t forget: You lost a bottle of scotch, they lost their livelyhoods.


No they did not. VEAO did not have any full time employees. They were, at best, hobbyists. Chris might have lost his ass due to his investments in the company but the rest lost nothing more than a bit of extra income.


Exactly, At the start of Development VEAO did not have any full time employees for the 1st 2-3 years. Chris then mentioned that VEAO had "one full time employee" (himself) He stated that in this very thread as well.
You can carp on and stand in the picket line protesting against the treatment of these protected species, crying out in forums how their union leader was unfairly treated outside the ED office.....it won't do you or VEAO's supporter's any good.
This thread and information put forth in my view, will prevent another 3rd party like VEAO from signing an agreement with ED in the future. Sloppyflop & Aviojet who have only released one module are the quiet achievers, this clown came out
and said the project was virtually done. Then announced VEAO were moving on to the Typhoon and the 30 odd other aircraft in their pipe dreams 12 months after announcing the Hawk.

During their peak development, VEAO probably had 5 "part time" staff working behind the scenes but to Joe Public, the assumption and VEAO's own portrayal was 30 odd, especially when I was voicing my views if these "hypothetical"
ponzi scheme artists actually had the knowledge to release something their consumer's would be proud of. How many times did Pman and Chris both sing in harmony "we all have day jobs" Tango himself carped on "this is in my spare time"

Save it, hardly lost their lively hoods....maybe a slight dent in their ego but don't expect them to admit that any time soon.

#4454281 - 12/21/18 10:20 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted by Vaderini
Originally Posted by mdwa
Originally Posted by Winfield
"are they actually capable of releasing anything on par with the A-10C"

Best modules ever released for DCS: A-10C, Ka-50 and Su-25T...


The MiG-15 is excellent as well smile


So is DCS: Huey and apparently DCS Mi-8 as well (I only own Huey).
And what all these (also good) DCS modules (Mig-15, Huey and Mi-8) have in common??
- All are or were developed by Belsimtek
And who's Belsimtek?
- Nothing more than a front company of ED or more precisely ED with a different brand/name all with the purpose of trying to convince (actually and IMO, to deceive) costumers and 3rd parties alike that DCS World is truly modular like some other well known flight sims such as FSX/Prepar3d or the older SF series. Or at best, some sort of a "proof of concept" that 3rd parties can/could (effectively) develop content for DCS World.

So:
anything developed by Belsimtek = anything developed by ED
And there's nothing that I've read so far that can convince me otherwise.

#4454300 - 12/22/18 12:47 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Aren’t those modules still awaiting multicrew? I only have the Huey, but that one is still missing IFF and chaff as well last time I checked.

Oh well, it has been only 6 years smile

#4454312 - 12/22/18 02:28 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vaderini]  
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Silver_Dragon asked earlier on in the concept what weapons would be available. on the POS
and the response was quite clear on Chris's part. The hype was slowly building and publicly, actually looked like this guy knew a little bit (copy and pasted) from the hawk wikipedia.

[Linked Image]

I am not sure if it is Clive Elliot or Chris Ells these days.....

[Linked Image]

sounds like when in doubt and the debts mount up.....change your name but pick something along the lines of the last name

PORRIMA SIMULATIONS LIMITED Directors.



#4454321 - 12/22/18 04:48 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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You get the picture....

VEAO set out to create hysteria on the forums and began greasing the cogs of what would later be the largest and most publicised scam in the history ED,

Being the 1st endorsed 3rd party developer and headed by a con job with intelligence exceeding far beyond the small number of money grabbers. Those who saw the 3rd party endorsements
opportunity as a get rich quick scheme like David Kinney's dead kick starter, the IL-2 con job.etc. This plan was thought out perhaps years prior to the public announcement of the formation of VEAO.

VEAO most likely envisioned the hawk as the bitcoin of DCS long before the coretex design flop, and L-39 tango fail and many many more than have come, seen and fallen from grace.
Even the kickstarter from some clown for a C-130 was a disaster and a quick money grab.


[Linked Image]

Source

most noteworthy, " will have to based on available data and our engineers best guess in wind tunnels etc."

This statement portraying VEAO having the knowledge to build the typhoon based on a guess by their "engineers" the whole business was based on guess work.

the suspense building....more fanbois squealing "take my money" "I'm throwing money at the screen"

I mean....they had engineers for f**s sake. How can a company that boasted good intentions, had all the gear "engineers, tech, artists etc etc etc" but not one of them had any idea what they were doing.

[Linked Image]

As for former Tango, I'd hardly class him as an engineer. a hobby coder at best. we will get to that.

#4454351 - 12/22/18 01:28 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted by Vaderini
Aren’t those modules still awaiting multicrew? I only have the Huey, but that one is still missing IFF and chaff as well last time I checked.

Oh well, it has been only 6 years smile


Yes indeed.
But and nevertheless the modules that I mentioned above (including Huey) which were developed by ED..., err cough, cough... Belsimtek, despite having their faults are still much, much better than any other (true) 3rd party module for DCS. But again, this doesn't surprise me at all since (and again) Belsimtek is ED.

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