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#4329439 - 01/18/17 06:06 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) ***** [Re: Hpasp]  
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Thought so... Though the work saved by that feature is somewhat countered by this (Rather non-user friendly) feature (or should I say lack of a feature)



This display not having bearing markers coupled with the narrow scan angle of the SNR-125 sorta makes pointing it in the exact direction slightly challenging...

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4329442 - 01/18/17 06:21 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Do not forget, that this system is originally designed to counter low flying targets, complementing the firing zone of the Volkhov.
So generally you nod the antenna to just few degree in elevation, and scan into the approx azimuth, and the low flying target should pop up on the screen. At very low altitude, target detection range and time is limited by the radar-horizon, so no exact azimuth degrees are required (like during long range detection of Volkhov).

During 1975 WarPact expected at least of 65% of NATO planes attacking at very low altitude.


Last edited by Hpasp; 01/18/17 06:32 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#4329743 - 01/19/17 08:55 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Lately I have been extensively playing the 1986 scenario (Libya) and after a lot of efforts, I am capable of shooting down at least 3 aircrafts (only F-111s).

Here is my best score: (4 kills)

Quote:

2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Tripoli.

Targets:
Bab al-Aziziyah barracks - 6 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base - 3 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 4 GBU-10 LGB
Tripoli AFB - 5 F-111F Aardvark, each armed with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs

Supporting force:
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks from the CV-66 USS America)
3 EF-111A Raven ECM
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys from the CV-43 USS America)

S-125M1 Neva


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:20, SNR ON AIR


00:00:32, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 11km
Target azimuth: 311
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)

00:00:36, F-111F Remit-31 bombed Bab al-Aziziyah barracks, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

00:00:37, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 10km
Target azimuth: 315
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:00:37, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:00:46, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Remit-32 hit by SAM. (miss distance: 100m)

00:00:50, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-111F Remit-32 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 20m)

00:01:06, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 11km
Target azimuth: 313
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:01:11, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 10km
Target azimuth: 317
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:01:20, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Remit-33 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 17m)

00:01:24, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-111F Remit-33 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 106m)

00:01:26, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


+++++++++++++++++
00:02:22, SNR ON AIR


00:02:33, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


+++++++++++++++++
00:03:06, SNR ON AIR


00:03:14, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 13km
Target azimuth: 314
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:03:19, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 11km
Target azimuth: 317
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:03:23, A-7E Corsair-II No.2, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:03:29, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Karma-51 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 16m)

00:03:33, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-111F Karma-51 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 16m)

00:03:36, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


+++++++++++++++++
00:04:26, SNR ON AIR


00:04:35, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 7km
Target azimuth: 305
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:04:41, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 6km
Target azimuth: 311
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 49m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:04:44, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-72 Blue Hawks launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:04:45, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-111F Karma-53 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 23m)

00:04:49, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-111F Karma-53 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 31m)

00:04:51, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:05:36, F-111F Jewel-61 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:06:08, F-111F Jewel-62 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.

+++++++++++++++++
00:06:10, SNR ON AIR


00:06:18, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------

00:06:41, F-111F Jewel-63 bombed Murat Sidi Bilal Naval base, with 4 GBU-10 LGB.
00:06:49, F-111F Puffy-11 bombed Tripoli AFB, with 12 Mk.82/BSU-49 high-drag bombs.

Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 20sec


Thus I have some queries:

1. Why Libyan Air Defense S-125M batteries were not able to shoot down at least few aircrafts since many of them entered their engagement zone?

Extensive jamming? Fear of being hit by HARMs? Poorly trained operators?

2. S-125M/M1 missiles (V-601P/PD) are able to maneuver at 6g. In real life, it was an easy or a difficult task for a pilot to evade those missiles using only aircraft's manueverability?

#4329800 - 01/20/17 02:38 AM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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This procedure is not possible with the S-125, is it? Because turning off transmission sorts off causes the missiles to disappear... Though the 125 is at less risk during target tracking anyways since it tracks the target on LORO mode only...

But as seen KostasAK's AAR It's detectable enough even in LORO for the Anti Radiation Missiles to be launched...

#4336849 - 02/13/17 12:15 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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1982...

#4337393 - 02/14/17 08:06 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: piston79]  
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What happened to this Neva?
They thrown it into a hole?
I doesn't see any fragment holes, or any burn mark...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4347143 - 03/27/17 11:47 AM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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A new book was introduced in Serbia about the 99-war.
It might be interesting, that the authors used SAMSIM to illustrate the actual events.
biggrin

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4347160 - 03/27/17 01:17 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Hpasp Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Those, who were there, and done that...
salute

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4347192 - 03/27/17 02:33 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Hpasp
A new book was introduced in Serbia about the 99-war.
It might be interesting, that the authors used SAMSIM to illustrate the actual events.
biggrin

[Linked Image]


They should use "Non-historical scenario" option and pick-up "Volhov" for this screenshot....

#4347193 - 03/27/17 02:34 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Hpasp
Those, who were there, and done that...
salute


[Linked Image]



Anicic looks angry....

#4399144 - 01/09/18 08:36 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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[Linked Image]

#4435352 - 08/22/18 06:31 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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KostasAK Offline
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Has anyone experienced issues with miss distances since the introduction of v.930.2?

It is almost impossible to kill targets using a single 5V27/5V27U/5V27D when using the PS (Lead) guidance when playing in Asuluk, either playing the 1986 scenario. Previously most of the targets were killed with a single missile between 15-30m miss distance. There were cases when two missiles needed but they were few. Now most of the times targets need at least two missile to be killed with miss distances between 50-110m.

Last edited by KostasAK; 08/22/18 06:33 PM.
#4435361 - 08/22/18 07:37 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: KostasAK]  
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Originally Posted by KostasAK
Has anyone experienced issues with miss distances since the introduction of v.930.2?

It is almost impossible to kill targets using a single 5V27/5V27U/5V27D when using the PS (Lead) guidance when playing in Asuluk, either playing the 1986 scenario. Previously most of the targets were killed with a single missile between 15-30m miss distance. There were cases when two missiles needed but they were few. Now most of the times targets need at least two missile to be killed with miss distances between 50-110m.


I tried twice against simulated A-4 and scored with both missiles in the salvo....

#4435778 - 08/25/18 04:17 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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The simulated A-4 was killed with the first or the second missile?

#4436021 - 08/27/18 05:25 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: KostasAK]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted by KostasAK
The simulated A-4 was killed with the first or the second missile?


from 4 rounds, 3 times the first missile just "hit" the target... this is when fired deep in the destruction zone:

Quote
Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk

S-125M1 Neva


00:00, Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk launched

+++++++++++++++++
00:00:03, SNR ON AIR


00:04:00, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 7km
Target azimuth: 74°
Target elevation: 7°
Target altitude: 964m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:04:05, V601P 5V27U Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 6km
Target azimuth: 76°
Target elevation: 8°
Target altitude: 939m
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:04:09, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 35m)

00:04:12, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 71m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 12sec

#4446661 - 11/02/18 05:45 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Ontario
Some news on Ukrainian modernization of C-125M: a new version of "Neva" with overhauled, completely digitized SNR and missiles with new engines and a guidance package, that comes in Semi-Active and Active monopulse variants. Among claimed improvements, the Active radar-guided variant is credited with expansion in engagement envelope: max range up to 40km and max altitude up to 25km, also boosts in the number of possible engagements due to the shorter illumination time required as missile's own radar goes active (a capability of max up to 8 targets fired in sequence in the active mode is claimed)

In the video, you can see the new SNR (both outside and inside views, including some displays) in action during the live fire trials:

Fire trials of restored and modernized ukrainian C-125, also C-300 and OSA systems

The missiles were overhauled by KB "Luch" (one of the main Ukrainian solid fuel missile producers), and the radars were modernized by KB "Radioniks". In next Youtube video, you can glance at the active guidanded warhead version on display (it is proposed not only for C-125 system, but also for the modernization of P-27 Air-toAir missile and the associated overhaul of radars of MiG-29/Su-27 in Ukrainian service):



The current plan of Ukrainian services seems to be to resurrect every soviet-era system that is still capable of firing from conservation (including C-125, "Kub", " C-300PT and V1, even "long hand" C-200 Vega to keep any possible Russian jamming support and AWACS planes), and then begin with modernization projects. As always, the biggest problem problem is having enough $$$ to pay for all the stuff. More is here:

Resurrection and modernization of Ukrainian PVO

#4513128 - 03/28/20 12:39 AM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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UK
"Stealth down - the first downing of the stealth fighter F-117 and the missile crew that did it" documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVxjVF6-XGA

#4536277 - 09/08/20 02:59 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kub operator Offline
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Here is one schematic and text presentation of a fierce battle between 3 missile battalions of the 450. AD missile regiment (450. rp PVO) from Kraljevo ("Kraljevo foxes"), equipped with surface to air missile systems
S-125M "Neva", that took place in the early morning hours of 03.051999. godine over the south-west region of Serbia, then Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

The schematic presentation is from the domestic Serbian authors Bojan Dimitrijevic and General Jovica Draganic called "Vazdušni rat nad Srbijom 1999" (Air war over Serbia 1999).
In the textual part, I also used the sources from USA author Michael John W. Napier called "Tornado GR-1 An Operational History". By comparing the schematics from domestic sources and textual description from US source, I found that they are almost identical.

Textual part:

The battle was fought between 3 missile battalions from 450. AD missile regiment from Kraljevo in the southwestern part of Serbia and NATO air force strike group consisting of 6 Tornado GR-1, and 4 F-16CJ and 2 EA-6B acting as SEAD support. The air attack begun at 03:00 hours, and lasted until 04:10 hours.

At 03:40 hours, 3rd missile battalion launched 2 surface to air missiles at 1 of the Tornado GR-1 aircraft. Aircrafts from SEAD support group launched 2 HARM missiles at the battalion guidance radar SNR-125, but failed to neutralize the battalion.
Only a minute after that, 4th missile battalion launched 2 missiles on the following Tornado GR-1 aircraft. The plane was forced to eject additional fuel tanks and fly away heading north to avoid the missiles.

Several minutes later, around 03:48 hours, 3rd missile battalion launched again on the Tornado GR-1 strike group, with 2 surface to air missiles. The second missile was not guided because of the technical error. 1 Tornado GR-1, which was targeted this time, was forced to eject additional fuel tanks and to quickly leave the engagement zone of the missile battalion in a low flight.

According to US sources, SEAD team informed when submitting the operation report, that "they have never faced such a strong resistance, large number of launched surface to air missiles in such short time and have never been so frequently illuminated by guidance radars "Low Blow" of the SA-3 AD system"






Attached Files 470273_142636478_450 rp u borbi protiv Tornada.jpg
Last edited by Kub operator; 09/08/20 03:02 PM.
#4536309 - 09/08/20 06:59 PM Re: S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B Goa) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Good fight for the Foxes of 450 ZRBr

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