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#4441039 - 09/27/18 05:46 AM Free Weekend  
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This weekend people can fly Hornet and Su33 over Persion Gulf for Free.

I do not think one can have a more solid evidence ED is losing more customers than they can lure in with bling-bling and empty promises.
So much for Hornet becoming the new flagship, well maybe it is for the 12% users still there compared to A-10C days.

(yes, that's internet made up % so please go detail-ballistic somewhere else)

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4441087 - 09/27/18 12:57 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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yep, they must be getting desperate to do this stunt

Last edited by leaf_on_the_wind; 09/27/18 07:17 PM.


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#4441094 - 09/27/18 01:22 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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IMO, problem is that everything related to airframe and graphics has evolved but combat wise we are basically still at the same place we were in 2011, which means gameplay hasn't evolved at all at least not in terms of war environment.
So for some people, no matter how cool a module is sooner or later you have to deal with a sterile and repetitive combat whether you see it as an arcade or simulation game.

I'm not even sure what ED goal is because there is little words about bringing to DCS anything that would drastically improve war environment, instead you can get hints that they would like to implement whole world to open the market to civilian airframes.

I'm losing hope, again, on DCS overall because yes they are working on 'ludicrous bugs/unfinished features/bad implementation' but still everything related to war environment (dynamic war, properly implemented AI, etc..) seems to be will remain the same unless news announcements come out

#4441096 - 09/27/18 02:07 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: xXNightEagleXx]  
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Exorcet Offline
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Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
I'm not even sure what ED goal is because there is little words about bringing to DCS anything that would drastically improve war environment

They're currently working on missile modeling and guidance, like literally at this very moment. An improved damage model is also planned, although I think they might have tweaked the AI without mentioning it (or I missed the announcement). The previously near immortal MiG-15 now regularly has the pilot bail out after flying with damage for a period of time in my experience. AI is also supposed to get revised limitations, the first mentioned being g-limits, although I don't know what the status on this actually is.

#4441105 - 09/27/18 03:22 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: Exorcet]  
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xXNightEagleXx Offline
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
I'm not even sure what ED goal is because there is little words about bringing to DCS anything that would drastically improve war environment

They're currently working on missile modeling and guidance, like literally at this very moment. An improved damage model is also planned, although I think they might have tweaked the AI without mentioning it (or I missed the announcement). The previously near immortal MiG-15 now regularly has the pilot bail out after flying with damage for a period of time in my experience. AI is also supposed to get revised limitations, the first mentioned being g-limits, although I don't know what the status on this actually is.



By war environment i'm not referring to individual airframes or missiles but the whole war picture itself which requires core changes specially AI wise which currently is driven by script which is rather an extremely poor and cheap implementation.

I'm aware about missiles changes, which is why i have recently a few hope about DCS future but when i see no mention to anything war environment wise and even worse i see that they are aiming to features, earth simulation, to attract civilian stuffs .... my hopes get an instant hit

Last edited by xXNightEagleXx; 09/27/18 03:25 PM.
#4441123 - 09/27/18 05:06 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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Force10 Offline
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Completely agree with Oden and xXNightEagleXx.

ED seems to be struggling with ways to be more profitable...all the while ignoring what their own polling told them everyone wants to see. A dynamic campaign. Or at least...more immersive COMBAT experience. Every year that passes, I realize that they will never achieve the level of immersion that was achieved 20 years ago. Instead, they are going into GA and probably plan to release a bunch of unfinished civilian aircraft grasping at ways to make money.

Ugh

Last edited by Force10; 09/27/18 05:06 PM.

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#4441136 - 09/27/18 05:37 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: xXNightEagleXx]  
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Exorcet Offline
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Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
By war environment i'm not referring to individual airframes or missiles but the whole war picture itself which requires core changes specially AI wise which currently is driven by script which is rather an extremely poor and cheap implementation.


Fair enough. That is an area that DCS need improvement in. One of the most glaring issues for me at the moment is lack of command and control that makes organized large scale combat in single player more difficult than it should be. Although I think the mentioned AI improvements fall into this category, they won't solve everything.

#4441153 - 09/27/18 06:37 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: Exorcet]  
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
By war environment i'm not referring to individual airframes or missiles but the whole war picture itself which requires core changes specially AI wise which currently is driven by script which is rather an extremely poor and cheap implementation.


Fair enough. That is an area that DCS need improvement in. One of the most glaring issues for me at the moment is lack of command and control that makes organized large scale combat in single player more difficult than it should be. Although I think the mentioned AI improvements fall into this category, they won't solve everything.



Problem is that to have a dynamic war it needs at lot of work. First of all we need a high level AI that is capable to analyze and draw a strategy by issuing orders/objectives to fleets, squadrons and ground troops. This itself is basically a strategy game that runs regardless how the orders will be executed (simple dices, units controlled by ai, actual real players). Then at low level the AI need a complete overhaul that allows them to fully understand a given order and decide how to execute it. Implementation for these AI layers are drive by things like goal systems or behavior tree, instead now we have scripts that basically tells how the AI must behave which means basically zero intelligence...

BMS (+20 years) does offer this two layers of AI, and it does not even using any modern AI implementation techniques (behavior tree/goal systems/influence map) which would only bring the AI to a whole new level.

This is what makes me hate DCS, It could be better than anything out there....it has a lot of potential but .....it remains unused potential since 2011 and counting

#4441201 - 09/27/18 11:52 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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This is the direction that Wags has taken DCS. He's a major force into which way it's going. Frankly, I liked things better in the old days when Stormin' Norman was involved with Lock On. But as will happen with Wags, he saw Norman as someone who might replace him so he figured out how to get rid of him.

#4441209 - 09/28/18 12:45 AM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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Mr_Blastman Online content
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How about that dynamic campaign?

Has it been released yet?

#4441228 - 09/28/18 06:01 AM Re: Free Weekend [Re: xXNightEagleXx]  
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Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
IMO, problem is that everything related to airframe and graphics has evolved but combat wise we are basically still at the same place we were in 2011, which means gameplay hasn't evolved at all at least not in terms of war environment.
So for some people, no matter how cool a module is sooner or later you have to deal with a sterile and repetitive combat whether you see it as an arcade or simulation game.

I'm not even sure what ED goal is because there is little words about bringing to DCS anything that would drastically improve war environment, instead you can get hints that they would like to implement whole world to open the market to civilian airframes.

I'm losing hope, again, on DCS overall because yes they are working on 'ludicrous bugs/unfinished features/bad implementation' but still everything related to war environment (dynamic war, properly implemented AI, etc..) seems to be will remain the same unless news announcements come out


More or less this. Air to air missiles need a lot of work. Ground vehicle tracking needs a lot of work. I'd also like some new AI aircraft. Eurofighter, Rafale, new variants of other planes. Lots of other improvements are needed but they're coming very slowly. One small change I like with recent patches is you can see the exact orientation of an object in the mission editor when zoomed in. Was needed for such a long time. But still so much else left to improve.

Expensive maps that, while nice, are just too small is a problem as well.

#4441276 - 09/28/18 01:54 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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If they made a Falcon 4.0 quality dynamic campaign, I'd probably buy every single module. Why they don't get this is beyond me.

#4441277 - 09/28/18 02:11 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If they made a Falcon 4.0 quality dynamic campaign, I'd probably buy every single module. Why they don't get this is beyond me.


Given that it's now 10 years since the first module arrived (original Black Shark) and everything since then has been delayed, bugged, incomplete and a shining example at management level of how not to integrate, test and release a product......just imagine the circus that a fully dynamic campaign would create! They probably 'get it' but are fully aware that their own level of incompetence would take them to a whole new level with obsolescence of operating systems, code and products that are just the tip of the iceberg. Plus, there is no-one that can live long enough to ever see it released.


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#4441311 - 09/28/18 06:17 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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From the weekend news: "The Hornet and Su-33 include all the missions and campaigns as the purchased versions"

How many missions and campaigns shipped with the Hornet?


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#4441318 - 09/28/18 06:48 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
From the weekend news: "The Hornet and Su-33 include all the missions and campaigns as the purchased versions"

How many missions and campaigns shipped with the Hornet?



From what i know there is just a mini campaign for the f-18, released today, and missions of the mini campaign that can be played individually. I've download it and i must say, it really looks like a very early access product.

#4441332 - 09/28/18 08:26 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If they made a Falcon 4.0 quality dynamic campaign, I'd probably buy every single module. Why they don't get this is beyond me.



Me too. As it is I haven't bought one of their products since LOMAC.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4441422 - 09/29/18 11:45 AM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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nadal Offline
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Tried Mbot Dynamic Campaign?

#4441434 - 09/29/18 01:29 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: nadal]  
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Originally Posted by nadal
Tried Mbot Dynamic Campaign?


I get the effort but that solution is far from being even okay.

First of all that kind of solution is nothing new, it has been done like 2-3 years ago although the product i'm talking about never hit public (not even with any sort of teasing). To be honest it was even better since it was more like a real time strategy game that could generate mission scripts to be feed into DCS and read back to process it. It even had many in-game scripts to simulate things in realtime (eg. scrambling when enemy fighters got within airbase range, all this according to airbase status and available aircrafts). It never came to light because it was soon too obvious that for many reasons DCS AI simply sucks, scripting engine stability sucks (specially at that time), there was little interaction with map world (it required a lot of stupid turnarounds), and others things.

Dynamic campaign is not only about persistence (it would be naive to assume this), dynamic campaign is about real time action and reaction. It is about unpredictability and obviously a high level AI that analyzes the warzone and creates high level objectives made of a series low level objectives to sends to groups in the field.

In case of DCS the problem is that you could manage to simulate the high level AI (which honestly it really doesn't seem to be properly done is those campaigns) but still the low level AI is simply non existing due to its extremely poor implementation.

DCS relies on scripts to babysit the AI which is simply wrong. AI groups (fleet, flight, battalion) should receive a mission plan with specific order/task and being able to execute it by itself instead of having the need to specifically say to them how to manage the radar silence, which exactly static target is has to bomb, and so on so forth. Problem is that due to the lack of core AI implementation this is basically impossible and ED thoughts that maybe MODS would do this miracle for them.

In other words until DCS does not fix their core AI code there is little that can really be done to recreate a credible war environment. With all its cons BMS managed to do this a long time ago, so it is nothing impossible or unacceptable too much work, it is just that ED is a prove of how bad development can be done.

Last edited by xXNightEagleXx; 09/29/18 01:33 PM.
#4441446 - 09/29/18 03:56 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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Well I got an answer guys on Steam via Wags himself:

Q:
Quote

Serious question:

When is DCS getting a dynamic campaign like Falcon 4.0? I've been waiting for years to buy the modules, but without a dynamic campaign I can't bring myself to plunk down any more money. I want to spend, I want to enjoy the awesomeness that you guys are creating, but I need, no, require a dynamic campaign to get the most out of my planes and helos.

When is it coming out?



A:
Quote

wagmatt [developer] 42 minutes ago
It is in heavy development now, but too early to provide any dates.


Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 09/29/18 05:41 PM.
#4441447 - 09/29/18 04:01 PM Re: Free Weekend [Re: theOden]  
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This is a joy to read it and if he exposes itself that much i have a good hope

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