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#4439914 - 09/20/18 04:19 PM Radio and ground control also direction unsure..  
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Wodin Offline
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One thing I really hope to see get developed is more involved ground control comms. Noticeably absent flying as the Brits.

Also why is it always "direction unsure" when being updated over radio with regards to enemy presence? Never get co ordinates etc.

Get graphic glitches with aircraft damage..flickers between different damage skins or no damage skin and damaged, sometimes even flickers wing still there when it's been shot off.

Would love to see abit of pilot animation aswell.

#4439920 - 09/20/18 04:41 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by Wodin
Get graphic glitches with aircraft damage..flickers between different damage skins or no damage skin and damaged, sometimes even flickers wing still there when it's been shot off.


I've seen what you're referring to, so it's not just you.

#4439945 - 09/20/18 06:38 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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I haven't yet experienced those graphics glitches. How often are you seeing them and on which aircraft? I would like to try and duplicate the problem.

Best Regards


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
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#4439982 - 09/20/18 09:07 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Wodin Offline
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Think it was a German bomber maybe a Do..can't fully remember. Will note it next time.

#4439991 - 09/20/18 09:26 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Originally Posted by Wodin
Think it was a German bomber maybe a Do..can't fully remember. Will note it next time.


Yes, it may be aircraft specific so more details would be great.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4440087 - 09/21/18 11:46 AM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Originally Posted by Wodin
Think it was a German bomber maybe a Do..can't fully remember. Will note it next time.


Yes, it may be aircraft specific so more details would be great.


It's not specific to a particular plane, from what I've seen. IIRC I saw this anomaly first on a 109.

You can actually see a form of this same thing happening in the "official" release video at the main site http://www.wingsoverthereich.com/ - look around the 3:23 mark at the prop damage animation. First the prop blades bend back (as expected), but then there are approximately three "flickers" of what appear to be different damage textures on the blade. It's very quick, but definitely there.

It helps see if if you use the YouTube speed control to slow it down to half or even quarter speed. Interestingly, this same method also helps identify some of the (fairly common) stutters in that same video as well.

EDIT: Before someone decides to go off on me, I'm not suggesting that one should sit around watching videos at quarter speed just to find fault. What I'm saying is I can see these issues watching the videos at normal speeds, but reviewing at lower speeds can help to confirm/clarify/quantify what is often a very short/quick event.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/21/18 12:44 PM.
#4440151 - 09/21/18 07:49 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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The flickering damage textures can also be seen in the official release video, at 2:33 or so; underside of the Ju87; and starting around 2:49 on the 109 which shows the wingtip on/off as mentioned above. Again, helpful to see it better if you slow down the video (although I'm surprised anyone would have any trouble spotting it at normal speed...maybe this is why some people claim they don't have stutters.)

There may well be other anomalies, as I said I did see some stuttering, but I quit looking after awhile.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/21/18 08:05 PM.
#4440249 - 09/22/18 02:56 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Robert, any chance to look at this further, given the provided details you asked about? Just curious, thanks.

(PS - I've actually downloaded these videos and others that show some of the things I'm referring to, just so I'll always have a reference, if it helps)

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/22/18 03:20 PM.
#4440351 - 09/23/18 02:05 AM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Kksnowbear

I am at the Dayton Ohio Dawn Patrol Rendezvous until Monday morning so I can't look into this right now. I will give it some attention as soon as I can.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4440406 - 09/23/18 12:51 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Understood, and I appreciate your effort. I am very hopeful that you can get somewhere with these issues. I honestly don't recall seeing the flashing texture issue in WOFF, but the stuttering is both there and in WOTR. There are other examples available as well, and several people have mentioned stuttering in WOTR feedback. Seems to follow the CFS3 platform (or 'engine' if you prefer), rather than being an issue with any one machine. Definitely not something that has gone away, regardless of whose machine or how powerful.

This has always detracted significantly from the sim for me, and I'd be absolutely thrilled if you find something that actually solves these problems. I am genuinely grateful for your interest.

For now, I hope you can enjoy the show, and I am confident your willingness to make a difference will help improve the sim.

#4440411 - 09/23/18 01:31 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Hey, kksnowbear,

In this post, Pol talks about the custom damage skins, which I (perhaps incorrectly) interpreted as being new from WOFF, which maybe a point to start from... salute


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4440413 - 09/23/18 01:44 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Yes, I see what you're saying. Maybe those custom skins are related to the damage texture flickering; seems like a reasonable theory to me. TBH it's not something I know a lot about, I just had seen what Wodin was talking about, and wanted to give Robert some of the detail he asked for.

Of course, with any problem, be it texture flickering, stuttering...even something as gravely serious as alcoholism...the first step is to acknowledge/identify the problem. (Obviously the alcoholism example is just that, an example - it's intended to illustrate the point that problem solving doesn't change, regardless of what the problem is.) Hopefully, now that the initial step of identifying them is accomplished, they can be fixed. Having ideas and thoughts, like what you've mentioned, certainly can't hurt.

#4441671 - 10/01/18 11:45 AM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Kksnowbear

I am at the Dayton Ohio Dawn Patrol Rendezvous until Monday morning so I can't look into this right now. I will give it some attention as soon as I can.



Hello Robert,

Hopefully now that the show is concluded, you've had time to catch your breath and can offer an update on this. Thanks again for your interest.

#4441707 - 10/01/18 04:52 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Hey, KKsnowbear How are ya doing ? Just wanted to tell ya thanks again everything works well.

#4441753 - 10/01/18 09:07 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: carrick58]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by carrick58
Hey, KKsnowbear How are ya doing ? Just wanted to tell ya thanks again everything works well.


Hello my friend! Nice to hear from you, and I'm absolutely thrilled your machine is running OK...been almost two years ago now. I am so glad you've been able to enjoy it. That's a great setup, and I am pleased to hear it's still doing well. Nice to know I must have some idea what I'm doing smile

Hope you're doing OK too smile

Take care!

Last edited by kksnowbear; 10/01/18 09:10 PM.
#4442313 - 10/05/18 01:43 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Robert, hoping you can find time to get back to this and perhaps help improve the issues noted.

Thanks.

#4442519 - 10/06/18 05:09 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Sorry for not getting back on this issue. I had forgotten it and been absorbed in new skin development for OBD.

I will take a look at it over the weekend and reply no later than Monday.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4443047 - 10/09/18 07:06 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Robert,

Sorry if things have prevented your stopping by, as I am really looking forward to your comments on these issues.

I think the video links above show the flashing texture issue quite well, but not so much the other issue, so I've done some looking around in the meantime. Here are some references:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI_hJvnbkM0 at around 0:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jw4rkJ57sk around 0:36

These two of course, from WOFF, but the anomaly exists in WOTR as well. In fact, from your own video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FufMPawWvY at about 0:21, then again at 0:45

What's interesting (and what makes the WOFF videos relevant) is that these videos show the same thing happening in WOFF and in WOTR. They also show it is definitely happening on others' machines, not just mine.

Also of note is that it doesn't just happen when turning your view rapidly, or just when the sim first loads, etc. The first video above shows the view is steady on a plane immediately in front of the viewpoint, with no turning at all, and has been running for at least half a minute.

The videos also appear to illustrate there's not a problem with the recording, since the sound continues smoothly while the video image stops then jumps. (It has been suggested that recording causes load on the system, which is turn causes the effect we see - but the effect is there whether recording or not).

One other thing: The two WOFF videos were made after incorporating the 'blue triangle' mod, but still show the effect.

Other theories I've tested, based on discussions with BuckeyeBob; it's not (necessarily) associated with sounds or enemy aircraft, because I've duplicated this problem when flying QC "Free Flight" over friendly territory, even with the lowest air activity settings and very low graphics settings. No flak, no local enemy aircraft and what should be the absolute least amount of other activity possible. Also, I was testing on a machine that is not overclocked, is fully updated, and runs without any problems otherwise.

The first video shows very nicely why this issue is a concern: As soon as the stutter is over, the enemy is absolutely pounding the plane in our view. By the time you could react, you're already getting hammered. Not only is this an immersion killer, it's obviously very likely to have an adverse effect on the outcome of the engagement.

Anyway, like I said, looking forward to your input on this.

Thanks,

Last edited by kksnowbear; 10/10/18 11:11 PM.
#4445172 - 10/24/18 11:27 AM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Robert, it's really unfortunate you've been unable to get back to this. If these last few remaining issues with WOTR/WOFF could be resolved, it would be great. The texture flickering and the stutter issues are fairly significant distractions to the presentation and immersion in this sim.

As you can see the videos that you and Hellshade have posted linked above, there are still very significant stutters. There have been numerous suggestions in the past as to the cause (overclocking, settings, or some other problem with an individual machine). But, these videos clearly show that regardless of how powerful a machine, who's configuring it, or what settings are used, the issue still occurs.

People are posting they get higher FPS figures, and these higher FPS numbers make it sound as if the game play is smooth. However, emphasizing only FPS like this is totally misplaced, because as I've said many times, fps can be very high overall, but you can still have these massive stutters. Your video actually has the FPS counter displayed, and even though you get decent rates overall, it is clear that each time there's a stutter, there's a very significant accompanying drop in FPS. Obviously something's going on with the sim (and it's not caused by using the Z-key display...as we can see, Hellshade's videos show stuttering but don't have the Z-key display.)

When the stutter is enough to cause an adverse effect on the engagement outcome (as we can see in Hellshade's KeK 22 video at 0:31), it really destroys immersion and causes a major disadvantage that has nothing to do with skills, computer quality, or any other factor the player can control.

I am still hoping that you can help get these issues corrected, because of the obvious impact it has on this sim.

Again, your time, interest and efforts are appreciated.

#4445177 - 10/24/18 12:58 PM Re: Radio and ground control also direction unsure.. [Re: Wodin]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Hey, kksnowbear,
I have seen the stuttering from time to time and always thought it had something to do with the AI entering your immediate area and kicking it up a notch. But your tests would seem to indicate that's not the case. I have had it happen near a collision, and in fact it probably helped guarantee that the collision occurred and just figured it had to do with loading textures and models of the damaged planes, as in
at the 5:18 mark, but again that wouldn't account for all the cases you mention above. Maybe something is loading somewhere in each case and we just have to find the link?


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
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