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#4435948 - 08/27/18 03:45 AM Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer  
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I don’t think you can top The Right Stuff, but I’m glad to see an attempt.
Looks pretty good!



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#4435966 - 08/27/18 10:49 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I didn't care for Ryan Gosling when he first came on the scene but he's turned into quite a good actor.


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#4435970 - 08/27/18 12:15 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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cold be a very good movie ( even though we know how it ends biggrin )


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#4436024 - 08/27/18 05:33 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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on my theater watch list for sure.


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#4436621 - 08/31/18 08:49 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I was looking forward to this movie, not so much now. Revisionists screw up everything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nei...ican-flag-on-moon-gosling-defends-2018-8


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436623 - 08/31/18 08:51 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Apollo 13 was a great movie and we all knew going in how it would end Still managed to capture the suspense of the time


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#4436624 - 08/31/18 08:55 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
I was looking forward to this movie, not so much now. Revisionists screw up everything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nei...ican-flag-on-moon-gosling-defends-2018-8


Even if Armstrong saw the moon landing as a human achievement, it's still a FACT that the U.S. flag was put on the moon. A very prominent fact. Why didn't these retards just make a Lego moon landing movie instead?


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#4436632 - 08/31/18 09:35 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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they spoiled the ending for me, at the end of the trailer, he clearly landed on the our Moon and was about to walk on the surface.

#4436633 - 08/31/18 09:41 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
I was looking forward to this movie, not so much now. Revisionists screw up everything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nei...ican-flag-on-moon-gosling-defends-2018-8




Yep, they lost me.


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#4436636 - 08/31/18 10:09 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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At least 90% of Hollywood writers, actors and producers are left-leaning so this doesn’t surprise me one bit.

Let’s not take political path with the thread.

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#4436637 - 08/31/18 10:16 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
I was looking forward to this movie, not so much now. Revisionists screw up everything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nei...ican-flag-on-moon-gosling-defends-2018-8



I think Gosling failed history. He kinda forgot about that cold war thing that was so big during the time period...

#4436665 - 09/01/18 02:17 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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"Gosling, who is Canadian"

That explains it. Armstrong, from Ohio, clearly knew the importance of planting an American flag on the Moon.

#4436668 - 09/01/18 03:18 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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#4436672 - 09/01/18 03:45 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I hope it is a movie about mankind's exploring nature and the bravery,co-operation, work, dedication, sacrifice,and scientific/technological advances it took to accomplish such a monumental achievement.

I have my doubts that will be the message though. Hollywood just seem to be incapable, or willing to do such a story.

Last edited by LB4LB; 09/01/18 03:46 AM.

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#4436702 - 09/01/18 12:13 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: LB4LB]  
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Originally Posted by LB4LB
I hope it is a movie about mankind's exploring nature and the bravery,co-operation, work, dedication, sacrifice,and scientific/technological advances it took to accomplish such a monumental achievement.

I have my doubts that will be the message though. Hollywood just seem to be incapable, or willing to do such a story.



That is what I would have hoped for, but even before the entire flag thing came up I was getting the impression from the trailer that this was going to be a "Neil vs Jane" film focused a lot on friction at the Armstrong home.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436707 - 09/01/18 01:29 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: letterboy1]  
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Originally Posted by letterboy1
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
I was looking forward to this movie, not so much now. Revisionists screw up everything.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nei...ican-flag-on-moon-gosling-defends-2018-8


Even if Armstrong saw the moon landing as a human achievement, it's still a FACT that the U.S. flag was put on the moon. A very prominent fact. Why didn't these retards just make a Lego moon landing movie instead?


I remember watching the landing. The prominent fact that stands out in my mind is Armstrong making that first step onto the surface while making his memorable statement.

People who have actually seen the movie state that there are scenes showing the American flag on the moon. I honestly don't get the whining that the actual planting of the flag isn't shown. BFD. And I could care less what the political views of the actors are.

Trailer looks pretty darn cool. Don't care for Gosling's acting but I plan on seeing it anyways.


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#4436713 - 09/01/18 03:17 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Quote
Gosling, who is Canadian, argued that the first voyage to the moon was a "human achievement" that didn't just represent an American accomplishment, and that's how Armstrong viewed it.


Then why didn't Canada put a man on the Moon?

Or the Soviets?


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#4436723 - 09/01/18 05:15 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Damn, this is a tough crowd. LOL
Personally, I think it's fine to cast whomever they want in a role. They're ACTORS. They should go with whomever "pretends" the best for the role.
You should be able to enjoy a movie for the movie itself, not have to read the life story of everyone involved in making it.
I'm glad to see the movie is coming out instead of yet another drama-cryfest-comedy. But who knows? If it isn't worth the ticket price, I might tear up too.


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#4436724 - 09/01/18 05:26 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite
Damn, this is a tough crowd. LOL
Personally, I think it's fine to cast whomever they want in a role. They're ACTORS. They should go with whomever "pretends" the best for the role.
You should be able to enjoy a movie for the movie itself, not have to read the life story of everyone involved in making it.
I'm glad to see the movie is coming out instead of yet another drama-cryfest-comedy. But who knows? If it isn't worth the ticket price, I might tear up too.


Gosling being Canadian isn't the issue, omitting the flag raising (arguably THE reason for being there, for the first landing at least) is.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436737 - 09/01/18 08:05 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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If its not a big deal (regardless even if now we're being told the flag actually does show up indirectly in scenes of the movie), then why is there an article specifically making an effort to acknowledge that the historical flag moment would be omitted from the movie complete with the quote of a non-American actor's favorable opinion of that decision? If they've done this, what else may be suspect in the movie's script or writing? Maybe it won't turn out to come off as all this makes it sound. Maybe some journalist made much to do about nothing, took a single person's opinion and then made a "thing" out of it all by themselves, I don't know. Sometimes things are made a big deal before a movie's release only to find out it wasn't done in that spirit at all. HOWEVER, there are countless movies that do indeed turn out to be the lie and garbage that they were suspected to be in the first place. We shall see. I'd love to see it for those X-15 scenes but if the movie is indeed coming from the pen of those who wish to rewrite and misrepresent history or force it to accommodate erroneous social/political aberrant beliefs then I'm not interested. Perhaps the movie will turn out fine but it does raise a flag of its own, a red one, when its seems to have gone out of its way to mention the omission of this historical moment.

#4436741 - 09/01/18 08:40 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Wouldn't surprise me if they "re-imagined" Micheal Collins as as a transgendered Asian lesbian and Buzz Aldrin as as a Black Muslim to make it more inclusive. Too many straight white Christian guys were involved, after all, and we want to show that the Apollo mission was for all of us, after all.


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#4436742 - 09/01/18 08:45 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Actually it was a BFD.

The Space Race between the US and the USSR.

Cold War struggle between the two superpowers for space mastery.

Race to the moon.

Big enough deal that they planned and prepared for the planting of the flag. Just including the apparatus in the space capsule and lunar lander means that it was a significant event.

One of the few lunar actions by the crew. It was choreographed in execution and filming.

Flag planting has a real historical significance. That the US graciously did not lay claim to the moon with the flag planting was a major event.

Yeah it was a BFD and should have been in the movie. Omitting it was making a statement.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436744 - 09/01/18 08:50 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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"When I made this film about Iwo Jima, I left out the part where they raised the flag because I wanted to focus on the soldiers in the battle. It was a victory for all of the allies, not just the Americans."


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#4436751 - 09/01/18 09:23 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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HAHAHA! good one.

Spot on, OG. THAT WAS THE POINT in landing on the Moon. That the United States got there first. Not a bag of moon rocks.


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#4436753 - 09/01/18 09:27 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Right on OG.

No matter how many lies, deceiving agendas and historically comprised movies there are, The United States flag that flew around the moon on Apollo 17 and was awarded to my grandfather now hanging on my wall will not suddenly disappear.

#4436759 - 09/01/18 10:37 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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JFK May 25, 1961: "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to Earth."

Kennedy didn't say "representing all nations" or "as a symbolic of the world" he said THIS NATION should send men to the moon and return them.

Later he made the famous "We choose to go to the moon" speech that made it very clear that this wasn't some international, symbolic cooperative international venture but a competition to demonstrate that the American system of government was superior. The results would be for "all mankind" but only if a free country, the United States, won the race rather than the oppressive communist regime of the USSR.


"For the eyes of the world now look into space, to the moon and to the planets beyond, and we have vowed that we shall not see it governed by a hostile flag of conquest, but by a banner of freedom and peace. We have vowed that we shall not see space filled with weapons of mass destruction, but with instruments of knowledge and understanding.

Yet the vows of this Nation can only be fulfilled if we in this Nation are first, and, therefore, we intend to be first. In short, our leadership in science and industry, our hopes for peace and security, our obligations to ourselves as well as others, all require us to make this effort, to solve these mysteries, to solve them for the good of all men, and to become the world's leading space-faring nation.

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.

There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation many never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."


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#4436763 - 09/01/18 11:28 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Someone seems to be re-writing history to fit their narrative.

Oh, and Chuck Yeager doesn't seem to agree with this new narrative.


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#4436783 - 09/02/18 02:46 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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If that's how the movie is already being perceived by many and if it also warranted a comment from Chuck Yeager himself with regards to how they portrayed Neil Armstrong, then I think many of our concerns and suspicions about the production are true.

#4436788 - 09/02/18 04:27 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Consider this: When MTV launched back in Early 1981, what did they choose to use as their iconic logo/icon? A caricature of Neil Armstrong facing the flag!
Because it was iconic. It was American. It was instantly recognizable. It stirred something in you, making you think that MTV was 'something that had never been achieved before'.

That is why MTV launched their channel with the Apollo 11 footage. Which they played at the top of the hour, for 5 years!
And now their VMA Award is the Golden Moonman. Gosh, who would have thunk it? Oh and he is of course holding a flag. Every. Time.


~Bill

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#4436801 - 09/02/18 11:03 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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For a historical reference


https://www.bing.com/images/search?...rst+to+South+Pole+pictures&FORM=IGRE

Scroll through. Notice anything ?


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436842 - 09/02/18 04:26 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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What Gosling misses is that while Mr. Armstrong did not think of himself as an American hero, he certainly thought of himself as an American.

Whether in uniform as an aviator or as an astronaut, or even in civilian life afterwards, did he ever show anything but pride in being an American?

Yes, planting the flag was scripted, as were his words as he stepped off the lander. That didn't mean they weren't important, or that he didn't take pride in them. The iconic picture of him saluting the flag on the Moon wasn't something he did reluctantly. I doubt he was thinking "Well, this is a useless part of everything, we're up here for the whole planet, after all, and I wish we were more inclusive for everyone else, including the Soviets, to feel like they're part of this."

Know what else was scripted? Most of the mission. When to eat, when to sleep, when to EVA, and what to do during the EVA...all of it was scripted before they even left the Earth.

Last edited by Dart; 09/02/18 04:27 PM.

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#4436857 - 09/02/18 06:45 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I guess one factor might be that it seems that the only people who care about the flag planting bit of it are American conservatives.
For me, I guess I was aware that the flag was planted at some point, because at one point there wasn't a flag there, and now there is, but it didn't matter. The truly important thing is him stepping out of the capsule and onto the moon.
I do see that acknowledging the fact that it was an American mission deserves some recognition, but I'm sure you'll get that through the rest of the movie.

#4436861 - 09/02/18 07:23 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Put into historical context of the Cold War, it was huge.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#4436871 - 09/02/18 08:29 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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It was the American Space Program that was due the recognition. Armstrong was the astronaut chosen to make that first step. If not him, the it would have been one of the other astronauts. Not trying to belittle Armstrong, but it was the whole American NASA program.

Statements like “I do see that acknowledging the fact that it was an American mission deserves some recognition, but I'm sure you'll get that through the rest of the movie.” make it all the more important to stand up for the actual historical event and the context of the times. It was an American versus USSR space race for the domination of space. Height of the Cold War and the competition between the two superpowers for superiority. Competition of the two political systems/beliefs; Capitalism and Communism. Who would win was settled with the lunar landing. America won. The planting of the flag was the period on the sentence.

“some recognition” ? BS !


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436874 - 09/02/18 08:49 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: FlyingToaster]  
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Originally Posted by FlyingToaster
I guess one factor might be that it seems that the only people who care about the flag planting bit of it are American conservatives.


Not just conservatives, but folks who grew up during the Cold War and the early days of Nasa.
But it's true, the American flag doesn't get a lot of respect in this country any more. Just watch a football game.

#4436879 - 09/02/18 09:20 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart


Yes, planting the flag was scripted, as were his words as he stepped off the lander....



Armstrong stated emphatically that no one told him what to say stepping off the LM and that he came up with those words after landing, so no I don't believe those words were at all scripted. On Apollo 12 Pete Conrad won a bet with a reporter who claimed that higher ups would not allow him to say what he wanted to say but the reporter reneged on paying after Conrad's first words on the surface were "Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me."


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436885 - 09/02/18 10:12 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Hollywood doesn't do documentaries. They sell (this is important) visually rich stories (another important bit) to an international audience.

U-571. Do I need to say more?

#4436891 - 09/02/18 11:15 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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That’s a different argument.

Yes, they have their agenda. And when that agenda displeases us, we can express that it does. And we can choose not to buy what they are selling.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4436894 - 09/02/18 11:40 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake

U-571. Do I need to say more?


I think you just made our case. U-571 was a travesty, ignoring one of the key moments of the first moon landing is as well.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436897 - 09/03/18 12:29 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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It's even more than that. These HollyDrama queens are now trying to turn REAL American heroes into generic "world citizens". Sure, we ARE "world citizens", however many of us and, our forefathers before us, are Americans first. Oh, and so sorry but we are damn sure not embarrassed about it. nope

The "world" had NOTHING to do with conceiving, designing, building and, PAYING FOR Apollo 11. 100% made in the USA. With a little bit of help from a few, very happy to be in the USA, German guys.

This movie should be required to have a disclaimer at the start: "This is one person's, who was NOT there and DID NOT know Neil Armstrong, fictional vision of how he wishes it was".

I guess we should be happy he isn't portrayed as a transgender, persecuted little mommy's boy who liked to play with dolls. rolleyes



"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
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I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

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#4436900 - 09/03/18 12:52 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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***nothing but net*** shot by Nixer. smile

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#4436901 - 09/03/18 01:01 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Nixer you need to start doing a Podcast.


"Not everything you read on the Internet is true", Abraham Lincoln
#4436902 - 09/03/18 01:10 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer

I guess we should be happy he isn't portrayed as a transgender, persecuted little mommy's boy who liked to play with dolls. rolleyes



Hey, Armstrong's an Ohioan. The state that's given you Presidents, Congressional illicit affairs, famous astronauts, famous generals,
Bros that brought you flight, one that gave you light, and one guy put away for cannibalism ..

..but no mamma boys here.

#4436953 - 09/03/18 12:38 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Buzz Aldrin has spoken out on the issue: https://twitter.com/TheRealBuzz/status/1036459675649171456

[Linked Image]



His "cover photo" or whatever Twitter calls it also speaks volumes:


[Linked Image]




Attached Files Clipboard01.jpgClipboard02.jpg

“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4436971 - 09/03/18 02:22 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
Put into historical context of the Cold War, it was huge.


This isn't a movie about the Cold War. It is about Neil Armstrong.

Armstrong said: "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." He didn't say: "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for America."


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#4436979 - 09/03/18 02:52 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: piper]  
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Originally Posted by piper
Originally Posted by FlyingToaster
I guess one factor might be that it seems that the only people who care about the flag planting bit of it are American conservatives.


Not just conservatives, but folks who grew up during the Cold War and the early days of Nasa.
But it's true, the American flag doesn't get a lot of respect in this country any more. Just watch a football game.


I dunno. I'm a Vietnam Vet. Served in the Marines. I find this hyperventilating over the omission of the planting of the American flag to be little more than a conservative political issue. You can see this in the snide remarks concerning Muslims and transgender people made by some of the posters in this thread. Now you are just sticking in unnecessary political shots and rude personal shots. Control yourself.

Last edited by oldgrognard; 09/03/18 03:37 PM.

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#4436988 - 09/03/18 03:16 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Ssnake51]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake51
Originally Posted by Dart
Put into historical context of the Cold War, it was huge.


This isn't a movie about the Cold War. It is about Neil Armstrong.

Armstrong said: "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."



Then he stuck an American flag in the lunar soil and saluted it.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4437009 - 09/03/18 05:46 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Ssnake51
Originally Posted by Dart
Put into historical context of the Cold War, it was huge.


This isn't a movie about the Cold War. It is about Neil Armstrong.

Armstrong said: "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."



Then he stuck an American flag in the lunar soil and saluted it.


Affirmative salute


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#4437064 - 09/04/18 12:18 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Its not a political party thing but an American thing. Specifically about the efforts, sacrifices and unbelievable man hours of many civilian and military citizens of this nation, The United States, to make the program work and happen. My grandfather who I already mentioned who worked on a proving grounds, was a Korea War vet, worked at Redstone and then had a career at NASA during this whole time was an old fashioned Democrat. He would not appreciate this movie's intentional omission. Its about giving honor to whom honor is due and calling out clear and premeditated attempts to chisel away at that history. It may not seem like a big deal but it actually is. This is how its done, one little slight or dismissal at a time. Slow burn conditioning. Hollywood is only part of the problem but there is a very real worldwide attack on the sovereignty of nations and the wholesome kinds of nationalism and patriotism that it begets. This underlying thing is what offends and makes many of us angry.

#4437069 - 09/04/18 01:40 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I'm am skeptical about this film now. Something did seem off with the trailer.


"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.” -Milton Friedman

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#4437113 - 09/04/18 11:49 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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finally the reason why it was omitted:

the reason why

#4437114 - 09/04/18 11:54 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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A few disclaimers: I am a Canadian with strong British roots. I am a liberal ( see Prager U definition of liberal vs leftist ) . I remember the moon landing very well. Was camping with my parents and listened on a transistor radio.

The planting of the American flag was the crowning achievement of the AMERICAN space program. Leaving it out of any movie that deals with the moon landing is simply an effort by modern leftists to diminish the role of the American system in accomplishing this feat. Revising history bit by bit


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#4437116 - 09/04/18 12:05 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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It has now come to my attention that they left the US flag off the spacesuits as well. That is an intentional slight.

Explain that away.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4437122 - 09/04/18 01:01 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
It has now come to my attention that they left the US flag off the spacesuits as well. That is an intentional slight.

Explain that away.


If true that is just NUTS.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4437124 - 09/04/18 01:04 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I will be exercising my ultimate power as as consumer with this film. No ticket purchase, no rental and no VOD fee from me.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4437153 - 09/04/18 03:36 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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It was in the comments in the link Tom_Weiss posted. I hope it’s not true.

Looks like that was a manipulated piece of information by someone photoshopping . I’m sorry that they hooked me with that.

Last edited by oldgrognard; 09/04/18 05:30 PM.

Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4437217 - 09/04/18 11:42 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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This is outrageous. Since when is National Pride (not gay or black pride) not to be celebrated.

I was an avid space junkey, Shepherd on the Redstone sub-orbital shot, the orbital Mercuries, Gemini and the triumph of triumph, Apollo. It was always the West represented by the US versus the USSR and the planting of Old Glory on the Moon was an event no-one can forget. How anyone can dispute the right of the US to do so after spending all that blood and treasure is beyond me. Not as if the US was claiming sovereignty, something that the soviets were almost sure to have done.

What did Armstrong say? "We come in peace for all mankind" from memory. I was living in England during the sixties, and the US space program was a thing of pride even for the Brits. A wonderful time.


" if you don’t like the religious Right, wait until you meet the non-religious Right.."
#4437290 - 09/05/18 10:52 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I was excited about this movie. From the trailer it looks like it has all the great moments of X-15 suborbital flights, the lunar landing trainer ejection, Gemini 8 tumble, and of course the landing. But then, WHY do they have to act like revisionists and not include such a moment as the planting of the flag? That day the US flag represented the whole of mankind. The US spent all the dollars, manpower and even lives that won the Moon race in the end, so why shouldn’t they plant the flag?

There is a movie being made about the race to the South Pole in 1911. Maybe they should omit Amundsen and the other Norwegians planting the Norwegian flag? I despise the sort of revisionism for the sake of revisionism that is found in movies today, and not just in movies portraying historical events. Star Wars: The Last Jedi was just as bad in taking an entire beloved movie universe and pooping on it, for the sake of satisfying some director’s and producer’s agenda.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4437291 - 09/05/18 10:59 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Since when the left decided national pride was racist Maxie.

#4437304 - 09/05/18 11:47 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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as a side note: this sort of thing is why us British Commonwealth types were so upset about U-571


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#4437308 - 09/05/18 12:26 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: No105_Archie]  
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Originally Posted by No105_Archie
as a side note: this sort of thing is why us British Commonwealth types were so upset about U-571



The U-571 case had a different intent though. The main protagonists were changed from British to American strictly for financial reasons. This was a big US theatrical release so the studio was strictly thinking along the lines of maximum financial return and profit.


This Armstrong movie had factual changes made for political/ideological reasons.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4437373 - 09/05/18 07:13 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: semmern]  
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Originally Posted by semmern
I was excited about this movie. From the trailer it looks like it has all the great moments of X-15 suborbital flights, the lunar landing trainer ejection, Gemini 8 tumble, and of course the landing. But then, WHY do they have to act like revisionists and not include such a moment as the planting of the flag? That day the US flag represented the whole of mankind. The US spent all the dollars, manpower and even lives that won the Moon race in the end, so why shouldn’t they plant the flag?

There is a movie being made about the race to the South Pole in 1911. Maybe they should omit Amundsen and the other Norwegians planting the Norwegian flag? I despise the sort of revisionism for the sake of revisionism that is found in movies today, and not just in movies portraying historical events. Star Wars: The Last Jedi was just as bad in taking an entire beloved movie universe and pooping on it, for the sake of satisfying some director’s and producer’s agenda.


That was my point when I had this link in one of my earlier posts. Scroll through that and tell me what is quite prominent.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...rst+to+South+Pole+pictures&FORM=IGRE


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4437573 - 09/06/18 10:18 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard

That was my point when I had this link in one of my earlier posts. Scroll through that and tell me what is quite prominent.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...rst+to+South+Pole+pictures&FORM=IGRE


I missed that the first time around. I absolutely HATE the fact that anyone remotely proud of his or her country is immediately labelled a right-wing nut.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4437575 - 09/06/18 10:29 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
It has now come to my attention that they left the US flag off the spacesuits as well. That is an intentional slight.

Explain that away.



Whoa, source?

That can't be true. And if so, a huge campaign to boycott the film should be started right away.


Edit: Not so sure...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 09/06/18 10:32 PM.
#4437576 - 09/06/18 10:43 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I already posted this.


“It was in the comments in the link Tom_Weiss posted. I hope it’s not true.

Looks like that was a manipulated piece of information by someone photoshopping . I’m sorry that they hooked me with that.

Last edited by oldgrognard; 04/09/18 05:30 PM.”


Somebody photoshopped out the flags and posted in the Tom_Weiss link comments. They made a false claim using that fake photoshop.



Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4437588 - 09/07/18 12:11 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Still not going to watch the film. If they want to change history, they can do it with someone else's funding. But the war has only begun, and the winner hasn't been decided. History tells us the winners write the history books. Are we going to lay down and let this nonsense win?

#4437647 - 09/07/18 12:01 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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The U-571 case had a different intent though. The main protagonists were changed from British to American strictly for financial reasons. This was a big US theatrical release so the studio was strictly thinking along the lines of maximum financial return and profit.


This Armstrong movie had factual changes made for political/ideological reasons.


The intent of EVERY Hollywood movie is to make as much money as possible. Deliberate changes to history are abhorrent period. A Brit might say that the US film maker changed the U-571 story to diminish the British role in WW2 for ideological reasons. Not the case I'm sure ....and I agree it was done to make money. The flag scene was most likely cut out so as "not to offend" and therefore make more money .......end result.......incorrect portrayal of a historical event to make more money.


Archie Smythe

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#4437654 - 09/07/18 01:38 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Not sure how alienating half your audience is a good way to make more money...

#4437659 - 09/07/18 02:36 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Not sure how alienating half your audience is a good way to make more money...



They're counting on consumer ignorance/acquiescence. A shockingly sizable segment of the US population who will actually go see the movie will enter the theater with little to zero knowledge who Neil Armstrong was, what the Apollo program was or what nation created it.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4437660 - 09/07/18 02:40 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Not sure how alienating half your audience is a good way to make more money...



They're counting on consumer ignorance/acquiescence. A shockingly sizable segment of the US population who will actually go see the movie will enter the theater with little to zero knowledge who Neil Armstrong was, what the Apollo program was or what nation created it.



Bingo. And a shockingly large segment of the population accepts at face value how historical events are portrayed in movies.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4437662 - 09/07/18 03:20 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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So true PM. One only has to listen to the comments people make while walking out of the theatre after the movie.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4437663 - 09/07/18 03:24 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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How much of getting facts wrong is intentional or ignorance? For some of those folks out Hollywood way, I don't think they know enough about history to begin with.

#4437664 - 09/07/18 03:25 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Not sure how alienating half your audience is a good way to make more money...



They're counting on consumer ignorance/acquiescence. A shockingly sizable segment of the US population who will actually go see the movie will enter the theater with little to zero knowledge who Neil Armstrong was, what the Apollo program was or what nation created it.



Bingo. And a shockingly large segment of the population accepts at face value how historical events are portrayed in movies.


That's how I know U-571, apart from being a most excellent movie, was also completely true and factual.
Now if you'll excuse me i'm going to hide in secure bunker in an undisclosed location.

#4437670 - 09/07/18 03:51 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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There’s a line from U-571 that cracks me up every time I think about it. When the USN personnel seize the U-boat and are hurrying to submerge before the German destroyer arrives, Harvey Keitel’s character shouts “the controls are all in German!!”


Yeah, well no shi* Sherlock!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4443387 - 10/12/18 04:04 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Just came out of the theater. Well...that was interesting!

Main problems I found with the movie boils down to:

Extreme close up = emotion!
Shaky cam = realism!
Long awkward pauses = introspective....and please consider us for an Oscar

Seriously though, don't watch this movie in IMAX...I got motion sickness from the extreme closeups (close enough to see the actor's pores) with shaky cam.

The shaky cam becomes ridiculous in the flight/action scenes. I've flown in a 900lb LSA through turbulence and have been on an airliner where the turbulence threw the plane so bad a stewardess broke her ankle...but this is something else. I feel like I'm taking part in an exorcism!

The movie itself was okay; the ending partially (spoiler: they land on the moon) partially makes up for the slow pacing in the beginning. Suppressing your urge to walk out in the first 30 minutes will yield rewards...kind of. Without giving anything away, I just felt that the movie lacks a heart: The excitement of the space race, the camaraderie between the astronauts, the teamwork that going to the moon was this monumental undertaking....just isn't there.

With this I feel like that The Right Stuff, Apollo 13, and the series From the Earth to the Moon were superior in every way. In the last one, when Apollo 1 happened, you mourned Grissom, White, and Chaffee with the rest of the cast. Here you really only get to know Ed White, and there just isn't any sentiment beyond "well, that sucks!" and "this is dangerous!"

PS: On the subject of flags, Old Glory is literally plastered everywhere. There is a scene of a kid literally hoisting up the Stars and Stripes on a flagpole on his porch...which made me chuckle after reading this thread. Leaving out planting the flag on the moon doesn't feel out of place. That and neither does leaving out a scene where Eagle's exhaust blows the flag down when she leaves. There is also a brief shot on the moon with the flag already planted.

#4443619 - 10/13/18 06:51 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: radicaldude1234]  
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Originally Posted by radicaldude1234


With this I feel like that The Right Stuff, Apollo 13, and the series From the Earth to the Moon were superior in every way. In the last one, when Apollo 1 happened, you mourned Grissom, White, and Chaffee with the rest of the cast. Here you really only get to know Ed White, and there just isn't any sentiment beyond "well, that sucks!" and "this is dangerous!"


This is an issue I have foreseen when I go see this movie. I will compare everything to FTETTM and Apollo 13, which stand as shining beacons of moviemaking based on true events. Like you say, the Apollo 1 episode of From The Earth.. gets me every time. It is a superb example of how to induce emotions in the viewer without containing a single gung-ho, guns-blazing sort of moment, just superb, understated acting. David Andrews really was Frank Borman in that series.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4443810 - 10/15/18 06:20 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: semmern]  
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Originally Posted by semmern
Originally Posted by radicaldude1234


With this I feel like that The Right Stuff, Apollo 13, and the series From the Earth to the Moon were superior in every way. In the last one, when Apollo 1 happened, you mourned Grissom, White, and Chaffee with the rest of the cast. Here you really only get to know Ed White, and there just isn't any sentiment beyond "well, that sucks!" and "this is dangerous!"


This is an issue I have foreseen when I go see this movie. I will compare everything to FTETTM and Apollo 13, which stand as shining beacons of moviemaking based on true events. Like you say, the Apollo 1 episode of From The Earth.. gets me every time. It is a superb example of how to induce emotions in the viewer without containing a single gung-ho, guns-blazing sort of moment, just superb, understated acting. David Andrews really was Frank Borman in that series.



Yea, I think a lot of people will be going in with that same kind of expectation. But this isn't really a movie about the adventure of space travel - it is a biopic of Armstrong. He was not the sort of person to wear his emotions on his sleeve. The movie depicts that quite accurately. I think it is a very good biopic. If I wanted to learn more about the space race or the technical challenges of putting a man on the moon I'd watch the other movies listed here.


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#4462942 - 02/25/19 05:15 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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So I watched First Man on Saturday... or tried to. Only made it about an hour in before I started skipping to the highlights, Gemini IV and the Moon landing. I don’t quite know how it’s possible to take such interesting subject matter, both when it comes to Neil Armstrong and the space race, and turn it into such a dull and uninteresting movie. Armstrong was an accomplished test pilot and became a great astronaut. He was quiet and reserved, but he was still portrayed almost as if he was just letting events control him, rather than the other way around. As a pilot this bugs me, as that manner of conduct simply doesn’t cut it in aviation, and especially not in test piloting and spaceflight.

The «action» scenes were okay, but other movies and series have done them much better. I never got any sort of feeling of involvement in Armstrong’s life or the events portrayed, and nothing about the characters evoked any interest. It was just a bland movie, for lack of a better way to describe it. If I was introducing someone I know to the space race and Moon landings, this movie would I am sure bore that person half to death. Oh well, FTETTM, The Right Stuff and Apollo 13 it is going forward as well, I guess.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4486415 - 08/16/19 05:21 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Finally watched this. Not impressed. Armstrong just seems very, very DULL as portrayed by Gosling.

The Gemini 8 scene where the thruster causes the spacecraft to spin up is just way overdone for dramatic effect, and uselessly too sicne teh real deal was plenty dramatic without a Hollywood director taking so much "artistic license". No slow build up to a spin, it just goes from zero to spinning like crazy in maybe 15 seconds, even before undocking from the Agena and then afterward it gets even more ridiculous. "From The Earth to the Moon" does a much better job showing what really happened. Then they totally ignore the reentry and recovery of Gemini 8. To save more screen time for shots of Neil and Janet staring at one another in silence I suppose.

The crash of the LLRV was fairly well done but Armstrong did not suffer the type of injury portrayed in the movie, he only bit his lip. Therefore the scene where he comes home and Janet notices the burn on his face, questions him about it and he runs out and drives off is just made up BS, IMO.

The moon landing, moon walk and liftoff from the moon were all just very poorly done IMO. Glossed over, skipping interesting aspects of all. Nothing about redocking with Collins, nothing about coming back, reentry or splashdown. Neils just back in post mission containment housing, Janet comes in and they stare at one another for a bit and roll credits.

Yaaaaawn.......


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4486430 - 08/16/19 06:46 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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The Earth to the Moon was very good. That is the thing to see if you want to know more about how the Apollo Program went.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4486539 - 08/18/19 02:14 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Also look up "When we left Earth, the NASA Missions". It's also very good.

#4486559 - 08/18/19 09:57 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: piper]  
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Originally Posted by piper
Also look up "When we left Earth, the NASA Missions". It's also very good.


Yep. Narrated by Gary Sinise, who always does an excellent job. The HD footage of the Shuttle lifting off is spectacular!


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4486571 - 08/18/19 12:16 PM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Recently watched "8 Days: To the Moon and Back" on PBS and it was well done. You never hear the actors voices, it's all audio recordings of the real astronauts and mission control etc.

The scenery was a bit cheesy in a couple of places ( they're actually in the preview, at 13/21 seconds.) but not bad at all overall.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8usAnTCZpb4


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4487617 - 08/27/19 01:29 AM Re: Speaking of Neil Armstrong...First Man trailer [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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'First Man' has such an odd morose pallor over it. I don't really get what the director was going for with that.


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“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.” -Milton Friedman

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