#4432902 - 08/04/18 02:47 AM
Collisions!!!!
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 475
Nowi
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Member
Joined: Jan 2014
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Florida
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Can collisions be made optional? Something that can be turned on or off?
I know, collisions are "realistic." Boelcke lost his life in a collision. BUT....
I quit playing a French career, which I began after my careers in a DH2 and another in a Fokker Triplane ended in collisions, when it likewise and frustratingly ended in yet another collision during the landing circle parade. I, thankfully, had the campaign backed up. I restarted and guess what? I died on the next mission in another collision. (What is it with the AI's inability to control French aircraft on escort sorties?)
I started a new German career in September 1916, flying a Halberstadt with Jasta 8. The unit this early in the war only has six fliers, or I should say it HAD six fliers.
Of the six fliegers alive on 12 September, my start date, one week and seven missions later I am the only survivor! My five comrades ALL died in . . . collisions! On two sorties, a pair of Fokkers collided; both pilots died both times. The fifth pilot died when he collided with the balloon he and I were attacking. (It was a two-man mission because we were the only two men left in Jasta 8.
So let's talk "realism." I quote: "During its 27-month existence, [Jasta8] scored at least 91 confirmed victories, in turn it paid the cost of four pilots killed in action, one killed in a flying accident, and eight wounded in action (two multiple)."
Basically, my virtual Jasta 8 had more men KIA during one week, all from collisions, than the actual unit suffered during the entire period September 1916-November 1918!
When I go aloft in WOFF, my biggest fear isn't being shot down; it's having the AI drive one of my comrades aircraft into me! My last three careers ended in collisions with friendlies!
TURN OFF COLLISIONS!
Nowi
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#4432934 - 08/04/18 10:53 AM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: lederhosen]
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand
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High over the Front
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Well to be honest, when fighting 2 seaters or balloons its almost a gauranty that at least one wingman dives into the target. Thats been my obsevations thus far Can’t recall that ever happening but obviously I may not see it. And I always read the “after action” report seeing the victories (or fate) of assorted squadron/Jasta mates. Are “Death by Collisions” listed as such in the after action?
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#4432939 - 08/04/18 11:50 AM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,448
Hellshade
Hellshade
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Hellshade
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,448
Florida
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I also have not had this issue in the many years of flying, however I think there is an easiest enough way to sort out the issue. Create a second pilot in the same squadron at the same time. Name him "AI Only" and let him fly all of his missions in AI control only mode. Never take manual control of him yourself. If he doesn't keep getting crushed by collisions...chances are the AI are not causing the issue.
Last edited by Hellshade; 08/04/18 11:50 AM.
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#4432943 - 08/04/18 12:06 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 475
Nowi
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Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 475
Florida
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Details!
I witnessed the death of my wingman who flew into the balloon. I had completed my pass and was looking back at the balloon to time my reverse for another pass, when I saw my trailing wingman fly into the balloon, which exploded.
The other instances of two mates colliding with each other occurred on escort sorties during which we never encountered any hostile aircraft. I fly with the Display on, set for aircraft, and I can see (at least when we are not in clouds) the silhouettes of the other planes. During turns, I could see the dots collide and spiral down.
Almost all of these collisions occur during escort missions. Most occur when the two-seater reverses after reaching its target.
A particular issue seems to plague the French. (I have not seen it with German or British aircraft.) The problem of collisions seems to be linked to escort sorties when the escorting scouts are of different speeds. For example, my last French career I was leading in a N 17, but my flight mates were all in much faster Spad VIIs. Generally, things proceed as follows. I am flying behind and above the escort, let's say a slower Brit Quirk. Gradually, I gain on the Quirk until I am right above it. Simultaneously, the Spads are gaining on me until they are slightly ahead of me, their leader. At this point, the other planes in my flight do "Crazy Ivans" and spiral off in different directions to get back into trailing positions. My plane, under AI control, does a 360 to get back into a trailing position. Kaboom!
Virtually all of these collisions occur playing under AI control at 12x. My plan is to slow down during course changes in the future to see if that helps. But I don't have the time to play this game at 1X. Some of these escort hops take 80 minutes in real time.
Pol said that some Mods alter the distances that the AI checks for collisions. Does anyone know which ones? Here's my current Mod list.
WOFF UE Ground Season Textures Mod by 4L0M WOFF UE Effects Mod V1_10 by 4L0M WOFF News mod V4.5 WOFF UE 0 - Facilities Models by Panama Red WOFF UE V4_14 Custom d3d8 dll Settings Mod by Robert Wiggins WOFF Rivers Mod by Olham WOFF UE 1 - 1914+ Facilities - Full Trees Populated by Panama Red WOFF UE 2 - Consolidated Periods and CampaignData Mod by RJW WOFF UE 4a - Consolidated Custom Airfields Mod WOFF UE Medals mod for PilotLogEditor java applet by JJJ65 New WOFF InSim Map by Nibbio WOFF UE - (300) BT & FPS Improvement (High Quality) by Panama Red WOFF UE OCM V2.9.2 - 1 Clouds Folder (required) WOFF UE OCM V2.9.2 - 2 BB Fog Option 04 September to December 1916 V3_1 by OldHat Effectstrailersmoke
I flew for years in Air Warrior. There were no collisions. You could fly right through people. Realistic? Obviously not. But I know that I instinctively would try to avoid collisions anyway. I also seem to recall that there was an option you could turn on or off in Red Baron.
I'm just tired of playing for hours and developing a pilot only to see him killed in a collision. I back up regularly and can restore the guy when he dies, but it gets annoying after a while, especially if you've been flying six sorties, get killed in a collision on the sixth, and lose everything you accomplished--kills, medals, promotions--when you restore.
Thanks!
Nowi
Nowi
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#4432944 - 08/04/18 12:08 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 799
Stache
Member
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Member
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Posts: 799
Michigan, USA
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Well to be honest, when fighting 2 seaters or balloons its almost a gauranty that at least one wingman dives into the target. Thats been my obsevations thus far Can’t recall that ever happening but obviously I may not see it. And I always read the “after action” report seeing the victories (or fate) of assorted squadron/Jasta mates. Are “Death by Collisions” listed as such in the after action? I have witnessed the AI diving into a balloon way to often. This usually happens when I am not flight leader. My solution is when the flight is about 5KM out to go to to full speed and try to kill the balloon before the flight gets there. If I am the leader I fly a more horizontal approach the the balloon, but being the leader I usually get the kill first anyway. As for my deaths due to collisions, I take full responsibility for those. Just a case of driving home an attack to far. I have also learned to keep my fingers on the AutoPilot and Time Minus button and as soon as EA are sighted to quickly get back to Normal Speed, no autopilot.
Last edited by Stache; 08/04/18 12:17 PM.
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#4432949 - 08/04/18 12:27 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 997
HumanDrone
Just shoot me...
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Just shoot me...
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 997
Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
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Kinda tangent to the whole discussion, but is it possible that the occasional wingman going into a balloon had been impaired by flight damage or being wounded/killed by ground fire? They worked pretty hard to protect the old gas bags - balloons, not politicians, just to be clear... they get winched down pretty quick, and the gunfire from the ground can be intense, in my limited experience.
Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5 Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!) Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
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#4432958 - 08/04/18 01:21 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand
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Hotshot
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Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
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Details!
I witnessed the death of my wingman who flew into the balloon. I had completed my pass and was looking back at the balloon to time my reverse for another pass, when I saw my trailing wingman fly into the balloon, which exploded.
The other instances of two mates colliding with each other occurred on escort sorties during which we never encountered any hostile aircraft. I fly with the Display on, set for aircraft, and I can see (at least when we are not in clouds) the silhouettes of the other planes. During turns, I could see the dots collide and spiral down.
Almost all of these collisions occur during escort missions. Most occur when the two-seater reverses after reaching its target.
A particular issue seems to plague the French. (I have not seen it with German or British aircraft.) The problem of collisions seems to be linked to escort sorties when the escorting scouts are of different speeds. For example, my last French career I was leading in a N 17, but my flight mates were all in much faster Spad VIIs. Generally, things proceed as follows. I am flying behind and above the escort, let's say a slower Brit Quirk. Gradually, I gain on the Quirk until I am right above it. Simultaneously, the Spads are gaining on me until they are slightly ahead of me, their leader. At this point, the other planes in my flight do "Crazy Ivans" and spiral off in different directions to get back into trailing positions. My plane, under AI control, does a 360 to get back into a trailing position. Kaboom!
Virtually all of these collisions occur playing under AI control at 12x. My plan is to slow down during course changes in the future to see if that helps. But I don't have the time to play this game at 1X. Some of these escort hops take 80 minutes in real time.
Pol said that some Mods alter the distances that the AI checks for collisions. Does anyone know which ones? Here's my current Mod list.
WOFF UE Ground Season Textures Mod by 4L0M WOFF UE Effects Mod V1_10 by 4L0M WOFF News mod V4.5 WOFF UE 0 - Facilities Models by Panama Red WOFF UE V4_14 Custom d3d8 dll Settings Mod by Robert Wiggins WOFF Rivers Mod by Olham WOFF UE 1 - 1914+ Facilities - Full Trees Populated by Panama Red WOFF UE 2 - Consolidated Periods and CampaignData Mod by RJW WOFF UE 4a - Consolidated Custom Airfields Mod WOFF UE Medals mod for PilotLogEditor java applet by JJJ65 New WOFF InSim Map by Nibbio WOFF UE - (300) BT & FPS Improvement (High Quality) by Panama Red WOFF UE OCM V2.9.2 - 1 Clouds Folder (required) WOFF UE OCM V2.9.2 - 2 BB Fog Option 04 September to December 1916 V3_1 by OldHat Effectstrailersmoke
I flew for years in Air Warrior. There were no collisions. You could fly right through people. Realistic? Obviously not. But I know that I instinctively would try to avoid collisions anyway. I also seem to recall that there was an option you could turn on or off in Red Baron.
I'm just tired of playing for hours and developing a pilot only to see him killed in a collision. I back up regularly and can restore the guy when he dies, but it gets annoying after a while, especially if you've been flying six sorties, get killed in a collision on the sixth, and lose everything you accomplished--kills, medals, promotions--when you restore.
Thanks!
Nowi In thinking I know where the settings are for AI behavior I don’t think any of the mods listed are the issue. Got some more household crap to do before I fire up WOFF - I’ll pay close attention.
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#4432960 - 08/04/18 01:30 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,448
Hellshade
Hellshade
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Hellshade
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,448
Florida
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Details!
I'm just tired of playing for hours and developing a pilot only to see him killed in a collision.
Nowi Set your Pilot to Easy Outcome - pilot never dies in Workshop. If you die for what you believe is a legitimate reason, he's dead. If he dies for what you believe is a bogus reason, just go ahead and fly your next mission. No need to restore old backups and no lost history.
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#4432963 - 08/04/18 01:48 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Hellshade]
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
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Details!
I'm just tired of playing for hours and developing a pilot only to see him killed in a collision.
Nowi Set your Pilot to Easy Outcome - pilot never dies in Workshop. If you die for what you believe is a legitimate reason, he's dead. If he dies for what you believe is a bogus reason, just go ahead and fly your next mission. No need to restore old backups and no lost history. Nowi; It is always a good practice to download the "User Files Backup Utility" from the Mods "Tools" page. It is not only good for recovering lost pilots but also useful when you experience system failures in WOFF because you can restore all your pilots and WOFF settings. The tool not only backs up files, it also allows you to launch WOFF. I make it a practice of running this tool first and then launching WOFF from it. Best Regards
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#4432973 - 08/04/18 02:59 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,340
HarryH
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,340
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Can collisions be made optional? Something that can be turned on or off?
I know, collisions are "realistic." Boelcke lost his life in a collision. BUT....
I quit playing a French career, which I began after my careers in a DH2 and another in a Fokker Triplane ended in collisions, when it likewise and frustratingly ended in yet another collision during the landing circle parade. I, thankfully, had the campaign backed up. I restarted and guess what? I died on the next mission in another collision. (What is it with the AI's inability to control French aircraft on escort sorties?)
Hi Nowi, I'm currently flying a French pilot career (similar list of mods to yours), Nieuport 11, May 1916, south of Verdun. I've completed 7 missions thus far, 3 of them escort missions and 0 collisions. I led maybe 3 of them, the rest I was wingman. I do fly mostly 1 x because I have the time and I enjoy it. However, I occasionally will time compress on long journeys home etc., but I NEVER leave TC on if enemy are around or if I'm anywhere near the lines, targets, etc.. AI "mistakes" do seem to increase with TC in my experience. Always be ready to pause in TC and step it back down to 1X asap if trouble starts. In my early days with WOFF I lost pilots to collisions quite often, but not these days. This sim is very demanding, especially if you have the wind enabled and you are flying the early planes like the EIII (that thing is a nightmare to control in combat). Part of my original struggles were down to system performance. It's hard to fly in formation at 25FPS with stutters! The rest of it, I believe, is down to putting in the hours to develop one's control of the planes and learning how the AI formation tends to behave so that you can keep out of their way. Your example of leading in a slower plane is interesting. I have noticed the AI will try super hard to stay with a human flight leader that isn't necessarily flying how the AI formation is used to flying, which can cause some interesting AI aerobatics. I would try leading in at least an on-par machine with the rest of the flight. As others have mentioned, balloons can claim their share of victims, but generally they are easy to knock out. Another thing worth checking is the skill level of your Escadrille. Try to fly with an elite group (better AI skills) and see if they fare better. Consider disabling "wind" in the workshop settings to see if that helps. Mastering WOFF is a bit like learning to play the guitar. It's painfully slow progress at first but wonderfully rewarding in time. I've probably put in around 2,000 hours so far and I finally have formation flying down, but I still struggle in combat. H
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#4432980 - 08/04/18 03:33 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,352
lederhosen
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,352
Germany
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in my defence.....
I always lead (in settings)
Balloon missions; I almost always try to do this alone / or at least try to arrive before other members do, which is kind of hard when they have better crates / Or I don't attack myself and rather watch how they do it (mostly a collision by the first one in is the result !)
Attacking 2 seaters:
As is always the flight/staffel breaks up to attack thier own targets. Either one wingman has toooo much speed in a dive and ends up taking both out. Or 2 wingmen cant make up thier mind as to who's kill this is gona be, and they end up crashing into each other.
other occations: I have even seen enemy formations crash into each other for what ever reason (formation change?) way off in the distance.
To be fair though, this sort of thing does not happen all the time, but enough to make one take it into account when planning an attack. It's a fact of life (Sim life that is) and we just gotta get on with it. War's Hell and AI pilots die, basta. That is , unless he is an ACE who by way of God's intervention survives such things.
Last edited by lederhosen; 08/04/18 03:35 PM.
make mistakes and learn from them
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#4433011 - 08/04/18 07:01 PM
Re: Collisions!!!!
[Re: Nowi]
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 475
Nowi
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 475
Florida
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I do already use the backup utility, religiously.
Hellshade, great suggestion. I set it to easy. I haven't been killed yet, but I apparently can get wounded (tried that in practice), which is great.
I'm also slowing down the time compression whenever the route changes more than 45 degrees. Hopefully, this will prevent so many of my comrades from killing each other.
BTW, why does the compression rate change? Sometimes its 1, 2, 3, 6, 12, and other times its 1, 2, 4, 8, 12. Anyone know?
Thanks.
Nowi
Nowi
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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